Yield Protection?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

I don't hear any evidence from you or the other (HR) poster that the yield-protected students did NOT write university-specific supplementals, visit / attend local fairs/ meet with AOs, etc. My kid did that for EVERY school she applied to. I think many, if not almost all high stats/ type A kids do that.

Many kids (and parents) are Harvard or bust, but few believe that they don't need to worry and put in the work to have a viable Plan B. So yield protection -- which does happen, though it hasn't happened (yet) to my kid -- comes as a surprise to those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

With yield protection we’re talking about a 4.0 and a 3.5 with similar soft skills, but HR hires the 3.5 because they believe they can pay them less. The 4.0 priced themselves out of the market by doing too well in school. They should have had the wisdom to realize they needed to sabotage their own grades to be more appealing to employers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

If your kid is as arrogant as you, they won’t get in. This is your kid’s future. What could be more important? Or is it only a waste of time because it is a safety? If so, don’t “waste” your time applying or don’t complain when you don’t get in anywhere if your lottery ticket doesn’t pay off. Schools want matches not just the highest stats they can get. If your kid can’t be bothered finding safeties they would like where they can offer something back to the school and be perceived as a match, then they should take their chances on the schools they thinks are worthy of them. Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

With yield protection we’re talking about a 4.0 and a 3.5 with similar soft skills, but HR hires the 3.5 because they believe they can pay them less. The 4.0 priced themselves out of the market by doing too well in school. They should have had the wisdom to realize they needed to sabotage their own grades to be more appealing to employers.

You’ve clearly never hired before. No one pays someone more because they had a 4.0 rather than a 3.5. Most employers don’t care very much. They want to see that you can do the work. A 3.5 shows them a good level of intelligence, then they look to experience and skills. I’m sorry you do not have enough actual management experience to understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

I don't hear any evidence from you or the other (HR) poster that the yield-protected students did NOT write university-specific supplementals, visit / attend local fairs/ meet with AOs, etc. My kid did that for EVERY school she applied to. I think many, if not almost all high stats/ type A kids do that.

Many kids (and parents) are Harvard or bust, but few believe that they don't need to worry and put in the work to have a viable Plan B. So yield protection -- which does happen, though it hasn't happened (yet) to my kid -- comes as a surprise to those kids.

If it does, the kid reaches out to the school through a LOCI or otherwise and lets them know they were/are a top choice. That is why schools often WL high stats kids to see if they are really interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

With yield protection we’re talking about a 4.0 and a 3.5 with similar soft skills, but HR hires the 3.5 because they believe they can pay them less. The 4.0 priced themselves out of the market by doing too well in school. They should have had the wisdom to realize they needed to sabotage their own grades to be more appealing to employers.

You’ve clearly never hired before. No one pays someone more because they had a 4.0 rather than a 3.5. Most employers don’t care very much. They want to see that you can do the work. A 3.5 shows them a good level of intelligence, then they look to experience and skills. I’m sorry you do not have enough actual management experience to understand that.

I now feel like education is totally pointless. It’s better to have a 3.5 than a 4.0? Does that mean it’s even better not to go to college? Maybe dropping out of high school is best of all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

With yield protection we’re talking about a 4.0 and a 3.5 with similar soft skills, but HR hires the 3.5 because they believe they can pay them less. The 4.0 priced themselves out of the market by doing too well in school. They should have had the wisdom to realize they needed to sabotage their own grades to be more appealing to employers.

You’ve clearly never hired before. No one pays someone more because they had a 4.0 rather than a 3.5. Most employers don’t care very much. They want to see that you can do the work. A 3.5 shows them a good level of intelligence, then they look to experience and skills. I’m sorry you do not have enough actual management experience to understand that.

Lots of employers do not want overqualified workers. Such workers get easily bored, demand more fulfilling work with more potential for advancement, and often leave after a short amount of time, which creates a vacancy that can be expensive to fill. You don't want to hire a super-coder for the IT helpdesk. It won't work out well.

There may be some universities that understand they can't serve well / won't be well served by the very top students (in stats and in other skills), but they are likely non-selective schools. Most selective schools want the best, most talented students that they can find, yield, and hold until graduation. So it makes sense for schools to spend a lot of time and resources to try to figure out which students they can yield. These will not always be the students they would most like if yield were not considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

I don't hear any evidence from you or the other (HR) poster that the yield-protected students did NOT write university-specific supplementals, visit / attend local fairs/ meet with AOs, etc. My kid did that for EVERY school she applied to. I think many, if not almost all high stats/ type A kids do that.

Many kids (and parents) are Harvard or bust, but few believe that they don't need to worry and put in the work to have a viable Plan B. So yield protection -- which does happen, though it hasn't happened (yet) to my kid -- comes as a surprise to those kids.

Actually, a really well-tailored application from a high stats student might make that student MORE susceptible to yield protection. It's proof that the student can put together a great app and will likely be accepted at a T10 or T20. I'm not sure that more work and attention to detail here helps such students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

With yield protection we’re talking about a 4.0 and a 3.5 with similar soft skills, but HR hires the 3.5 because they believe they can pay them less. The 4.0 priced themselves out of the market by doing too well in school. They should have had the wisdom to realize they needed to sabotage their own grades to be more appealing to employers.

You’ve clearly never hired before. No one pays someone more because they had a 4.0 rather than a 3.5. Most employers don’t care very much. They want to see that you can do the work. A 3.5 shows them a good level of intelligence, then they look to experience and skills. I’m sorry you do not have enough actual management experience to understand that.

I now feel like education is totally pointless. It’s better to have a 3.5 than a 4.0? Does that mean it’s even better not to go to college? Maybe dropping out of high school is best of all!

Your sarcasm falls flat. Or are you an engineer? Your thinking is so binary. Employers want to see that you can do the job and fit in to the culture of the particular workplace. A 3.5 shows enough intelligence. You don’t need a 4.0. Is the 4.0 student better? Better at what? Taking exams? Does that matter for the role they are applying for? Maybe or maybe not. Once you have the baseline, that’s enough for many employers. They are not splitting hairs over an A- in one class and A B+ in another. They are checking a box and the 3.5 (or even less) checks the box, then they go to skills, experience and culture fit. That doesn’t mean a 4.0 is bad or less desirable or that education is bad or worthless and we should all skip college. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

You take away knowledge and education from getting high grades---or at least that's what one should take away. For the final time, high grades and scores is NOT the be all end all of demonstrating you are "tops in life". Life is a journey, smart people do well, enjoy learning and also learn how the system works---which means it's never ALL about 1 thing---it's about a lot of things.
So as a manager, if I'm comparing 2 people: one with a 4.0 in college, with minimal work experience, no real references and who doesn't seem like a team player versus one with a 3.5, 2 internships both with excellent references as a team player, great contributor and who interviews well, well I'm taking the 3.5 with the experience and references of being an amazing team member/contributor.
It's not ALL about just excelling in classes You have to actually apply what you learn on the job/in life and be able to work with others.

Soon you will learn that there are plenty of people doing better than you at your company/in life who "only attended a no name school rated 200#", yet somehow are your manager, getting paid more, more advanced than you are. Why? Because they learned on the go and adjusted to what is needed---and learned a long time ago that nobody gives a shit about what your SAT score is

With yield protection we’re talking about a 4.0 and a 3.5 with similar soft skills, but HR hires the 3.5 because they believe they can pay them less. The 4.0 priced themselves out of the market by doing too well in school. They should have had the wisdom to realize they needed to sabotage their own grades to be more appealing to employers.

You’ve clearly never hired before. No one pays someone more because they had a 4.0 rather than a 3.5. Most employers don’t care very much. They want to see that you can do the work. A 3.5 shows them a good level of intelligence, then they look to experience and skills. I’m sorry you do not have enough actual management experience to understand that.

I now feel like education is totally pointless. It’s better to have a 3.5 than a 4.0? Does that mean it’s even better not to go to college? Maybe dropping out of high school is best of all!

Your sarcasm falls flat. Or are you an engineer? Your thinking is so binary. Employers want to see that you can do the job and fit in to the culture of the particular workplace. A 3.5 shows enough intelligence. You don’t need a 4.0. Is the 4.0 student better? Better at what? Taking exams? Does that matter for the role they are applying for? Maybe or maybe not. Once you have the baseline, that’s enough for many employers. They are not splitting hairs over an A- in one class and A B+ in another. They are checking a box and the 3.5 (or even less) checks the box, then they go to skills, experience and culture fit. That doesn’t mean a 4.0 is bad or less desirable or that education is bad or worthless and we should all skip college. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

15:41 made my point better than I did.

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Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

I disagree. If two ivies accept and a top 75 rejects, it's not a copying mechanism. Yield protection is real.

If it’s a consistent pattern, maybe. But it’s also possible that the student did something in the application to the T75 school to warrant the rejection. There are a lot of kids now applying to 25 or more schools and it’s hard not to make mistakes/get sloppy with the essays.

Such a perfectly impervious theory. Didn’t get in? You should have applied to more schools. Still didn’t get in? You applied to too many schools. No matter what happens, it’s always the kid’s fault.

Nope, not blaming the kids. But there are simply way, way more qualified students than their are slots at the "top" schools. The bottom line is that kids need to understand that nothing is guaranteed, that they are not entitled to get into any one of these schools (regardless of their metrics), and that there are other kids who are just as deserving as they are. Moreover, as soon as everyone realizes that there are super-smart, highly-accomplished kids at literally hundreds of colleges--kids just as amazing as their own (gasp!)--everyone will be better off.

Sorry, but my issue with yield protection isn’t the top schools. I get that they’re too small for their avowed purpose. It’s the lower-tier schools like Elon. You wind up with high stats kids who don’t get into top schools because of random chance, and then also can’t get in to lower-tier schools because those schools assume the kids will get into a more impressive school OR because the lower-tier school filled up with less impressive kids in the ED round. The high stats wind up being an albatross that prevent strong students from getting into the kind of small or mid-size, four year private residential college they wanted. This is why people with 1600s debate applying TO to those mid-tier schools. The schools’ behavior shows them to be so opposed to academic achievement that students think they might have to hide it. And it makes me sad and angry to see educational institutions treat educational achievement as a strike against anyone.

Your view is so judgmental and cynical. The lower ranked schools are making a calculation, often based on demonstrated interest. Educational achievement is not a strike against these almighty high stats kids. The reality is that they likely did not show interest or did not tailor their essays to the school. Lower stats schools would love to have high stats kids but they want kids who want to be there and who will accept. My kid went to Elon and there are plenty of high stats kids there. They are kids who wanted to be there and likely articulated why. They are kids who applied for programs like fellows. That shows the school they are serious. They are not kids who just clicked a few boxes and cut and pasted a couple of essays. These schools can tell who has spent the time getting to know the school and actually wants to be there as opposed to the kids who were told they need a “safety” and assume they are too good for the school and can’t be bothered to demonstrate interest.

If your kid demonstrated interest and did not get in, there is likely some other problem.

Exactly! It's up to your kid to convince each and every school they are your #1 choice. If you don't do that, it's on you.
Also, recognize that at a T25, 85-90% of the kids are "highly qualified", so your 1580 and 4.0UW are nothing special---most kids meet the "academic threshold". So it's on you to highlight yourself and why you should be attending.

For ex: at my kid's top Target (and where they ended up), there were 3 supplementals. One gave the option to provide a video/photo collection, ideally of something you have great interest in, such as music/dance/artwork/etc. My kid submitted a video of them dancing. It was open ended, allows for creativity and sure as hell makes it more exciting for the AO watching it rather than reading "yet another essay". I suspect anyone who submitted a video rather than just an essay gets a "leg up". This is at a school that strongly encourages students to learn just for learning and to explore anything that interests them. This "essay" is a way to highlight your creativity and show them you up close and personal.

the garbage people here accept. stockholm syndrome if ever there was one.

according to your own accounts, your own kids preferred other schools (reaches) to their targets. so THEY LIED that their targets and safeties were their #1 choices. and these inferior schools TEACH STUDENTS TO FAKE INTEREST in order to have a backup. sometimes you have to do it, but you people love it. yes, yes, my kid got in because he LIED WELL and your kid didn't because they relied on their "stats", you know, their talent and hardwork. you gotta learn to lie!

+1 it’s garbage

Plus then there are the kids lying about ECs and awards. My kid told the truth and then watched some of their classmates embellish and then got celebrated for their admissions results.

How about instead of lying, the kids actually find safeties they like and would be happy to attend? Or is your kid too good for every school under T25?

I’m not the poster you are referring to and I don’t think you have to (or should) tell every school they are your first choice, but you should legitimately have reasons why you would want to go there and the application you reflect that interest and that you have done some research on the school.

Be honest, your kids just threw in the app and didn’t do any work. I had a kid with high stats who actually spent time visiting safeties as well as reaches and had things she liked about every school (including the safeties). She got into every target and safety.

Calm down, my kid hasn't applied yet. But they would certainly prefer to use their time pursuing their actual interests as opposed to researching a dozen or so schools themselves so they can write a fake essay on how they must go there or nowhere else. Intellectually, it's a waste of time. You love it because that advantages students who have time to waste, I guess?

DP: wow, you are quite literal/ b&w thinker. No one is saying write a fake essay. Why would you apply to a school that you need to fake that you want to attend? People on this thread are trying to tell you that kids should 1) pick targets/safeties that they ACTUALLY want to attend and 2) write an essay explaining WHY you want to attend and are a good fit. How would your child know if they want to attend if they don't do the research?!

I am hiring for a position and we received over 200 applications. Half the applicants clearly didn't do any research about our organization and didn't express in their cover letter why we should consider them for the position. Why should I consider them?

Exactly! This carries over to "real life" in the future. Demonstrated interest, perseverance, willing to do a bit more work (or in this case just any effort) take you far in life.

Hardly. As you yourself keep saying, hard work, effort, and perseverance gets you nowhere. Not if you put that effort into earning high grades and scores.

I don't hear any evidence from you or the other (HR) poster that the yield-protected students did NOT write university-specific supplementals, visit / attend local fairs/ meet with AOs, etc. My kid did that for EVERY school she applied to. I think many, if not almost all high stats/ type A kids do that.

Many kids (and parents) are Harvard or bust, but few believe that they don't need to worry and put in the work to have a viable Plan B. So yield protection -- which does happen, though it hasn't happened (yet) to my kid -- comes as a surprise to those kids.

Actually, a really well-tailored application from a high stats student might make that student MORE susceptible to yield protection. It's proof that the student can put together a great app and will likely be accepted at a T10 or T20. I'm not sure that more work and attention to detail here helps such students.

Depends on if the school tracks Dem Interest.

[Anonymous]

The number of people out here defending yield protection practices is crazy.

And yes it is a real thing. Any college counselor knows this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The number of people out here defending yield protection practices is crazy.

And yes it is a real thing. Any college counselor knows this.

So don’t apply to schools that yield protect or make it very clear you are actually interested.

Colleges have no obligation to take the highest stats kids. They are generally very open about their holistic processes. They have every right to accept or reject folks for any reason as long as it is not an illegal one. As far as I know, “high stats” kids are not a protected class, just one that feels entitled.