Discipline for excessive crying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

Good question. About once a month my husband and I try to integrate him into the bedtime routine to see if we can make it work. It results in hours of screaming, hyperventilating, and vomiting, and then a personality change in the toddler for a few days to a week afterward where she seems, for lack of a better word, depressed. Her language skills regress, she talks endlessly about how she cried and mommy wasn’t there, she has even more tantrums and clings more, she doesn’t want to play as much, etc. It’s so extreme and not worth it.

Wait are you OP? I thought your daughter acts normal for everyone else except you?

Honestly the behavior sounds hysterical and so crazy that I’d still head out the door. I would assume it’s a type of tantrum. I can’t see how continuing to go along with the behavior is going to help your child.

If you are OP, the problem is making more sense as you respond to questions.

I personally think you need to go cold turkey. Your daughter needs to learn that your DH is a safe caretaker and you’re allowed to spend time alone.

[Anonymous]

Could you go really simple with this and buy some cool shaped timer or countdown clock and call it the crying timer?

Introduce it as a cool new thing. Tell her it's OK to cry for _ minutes, but then after that crying time is over. "You want to cry for a bit right now? Okay let me grab the crying timer. Then count it down. Start with 10 or 15min. Countdown throughout. "There's 5min of crying time left". Hmm what should we do after crying time. Then when crying time is done, either try firmness or leaving - crying time is over. Or reset the timer- oh do you want more crying time? Or make a deal - you get 15min of crying time because you like doing crying time, then mommy gets 15min of quiet time because that's what I like. Talk about fairness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think “punish” is the right word but I would lean hard into the “ignore” and stay firm about it, even if she’s making herself vomit.

“Mommy cannot help you when you are so upset. You need to calm down.” Rinse and repeat. Maybe create a “calm down space” with stuffed animals but no human interaction where she can (needs) to go when she’s upset - essentially a time out for excessive crying.

And give lots of positive attention when she is calm. Crying = loses attention. Calm = gets attention. Model how to appropriately express emotions. Point isn’t she can’t express emotions - she just needs to do so in appropriate ways.

Agree with a lot of this except instead of just telling her to calm down, give her techniques that might help - breathing or counting or noticing environment or something.

I am also wondering if perhaps the high verbal ability causes you have to have unrealistic expectations about her maturity levels and abilities (I know that can happen with size).

+1 about conflating verbal abilities with capacity to understand HER own emotions and self regulate. She sounds like she gets very overwhelmed easily and can’t self regulate. No real advice other than you may need to ride this out and try to hold space for her while making sure she is physically safe when upset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

not true

[Anonymous]

When you’re in the middle of something it’s easy to over analyze and pick apart the behavior and what to do.

I’m an overly logical person. I struggle with some parts of parenting or listening to other parenting struggles because the solution is often very simple to me.

You need to ignore your child. She’s having a tantrum. When she starts crying, leave the room. Or tell her she has to stay in her room while she’s upset. Put her in there (assuming it’s a safe place) and leave the room.

You also need to go away for the weekend. You need a parenting reset as the current dynamic is unhealthy. Let her scream and cry for a day or two. Have DH offer unlimited TV, McDonald’s DoorDash and whatever else. She will likely get over the fact you aren’t there.

There isn’t any sort of medical condition where a child can only be with the mom and no one else. You’re not harming your child by leaving her with her dad.

The only reason this is going on is because you can afford for it to happen. If you were a single mom and forced to work, your daughter would be in daycare and likely flipped out the first few days and now be perfectly fine. If this were the 1950s, you would have more chores to do and wouldn’t have the time to tend to a child acting like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

not true

How is this not true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

hmm and why do you think that is?

DP: I think it’s because we — especially moms — are wired to care for high needs newborns and infants in a community setting. Many white Western moms don’t HAVE a community setting, and take on the enormous tasks of caring for a newborn in a small nuclear family, which can be isolating and exhausting. For kids with typical development, this high needs period doesn’t last very long. Kids mature, become more independent, their needs change.

For atypical kids, their high needs developmental phase doesn’t always become easier. It actually may become more difficult and more complex. And moms/parents/caregivers often struggle with this by trying to “parent” even harder — perhaps never seeming to be apart from their kid — because the kid seems to be in a perpetual crisis mode, which parents, and indeed, most of us, are wired to soothe. It’s really hard to know when and how to shift from responding to high needs infant-level demands when the kid isn’t developing in ways that naturally provide the cues that indicate to caregivers that it is indeed SAFE and developmentally appropriate to do so.

Perfectly put. When she was a baby, everyone encouraged me to lean into the neediness and love her through it. “You can’t spoil a baby!” Now everyone is mad at me that I’ve somehow helped her too much and caused this. It’s an unfair trap. When exactly in time was this magic period when I was supposed to transition from responding to pushing boundaries and independence when her behavior has never shifted?

12 months, 2 days, 2 hours after wake-up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

I mean, it doesn’t solve OP’s child’s problems that OP can leave the house more. Likely better for OP but the child will still almost certainly continue to tantrum and continue to be likely neurodiverse. OP has not created her child’s issues. An NT child does not reach these levels of distress so continuously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you’re in the middle of something it’s easy to over analyze and pick apart the behavior and what to do.

I’m an overly logical person. I struggle with some parts of parenting or listening to other parenting struggles because the solution is often very simple to me.

You need to ignore your child. She’s having a tantrum. When she starts crying, leave the room. Or tell her she has to stay in her room while she’s upset. Put her in there (assuming it’s a safe place) and leave the room.

You also need to go away for the weekend. You need a parenting reset as the current dynamic is unhealthy. Let her scream and cry for a day or two. Have DH offer unlimited TV, McDonald’s DoorDash and whatever else. She will likely get over the fact you aren’t there.

There isn’t any sort of medical condition where a child can only be with the mom and no one else. You’re not harming your child by leaving her with her dad.

The only reason this is going on is because you can afford for it to happen. If you were a single mom and forced to work, your daughter would be in daycare and likely flipped out the first few days and now be perfectly fine. If this were the 1950s, you would have more chores to do and wouldn’t have the time to tend to a child acting like this.

Kids get kicked out of daycare all the time. If this was the 50s and OP had 6 more kids, sure this one would go to the playpen for hours and eventually stop crying. That doesn’t mean that’s any better for the child. (and when the child couldn’t tolerate school back in the 50s they just … kicked them out of school.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

not true

How is this not true?

Nannies quit all the time, as OP knows. Some relaxing vacation for OP: “Honey you have to come home because the nanny quit and I have to go to work.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

hmm and why do you think that is?

DP: I think it’s because we — especially moms — are wired to care for high needs newborns and infants in a community setting. Many white Western moms don’t HAVE a community setting, and take on the enormous tasks of caring for a newborn in a small nuclear family, which can be isolating and exhausting. For kids with typical development, this high needs period doesn’t last very long. Kids mature, become more independent, their needs change.

For atypical kids, their high needs developmental phase doesn’t always become easier. It actually may become more difficult and more complex. And moms/parents/caregivers often struggle with this by trying to “parent” even harder — perhaps never seeming to be apart from their kid — because the kid seems to be in a perpetual crisis mode, which parents, and indeed, most of us, are wired to soothe. It’s really hard to know when and how to shift from responding to high needs infant-level demands when the kid isn’t developing in ways that naturally provide the cues that indicate to caregivers that it is indeed SAFE and developmentally appropriate to do so.

Perfectly put. When she was a baby, everyone encouraged me to lean into the neediness and love her through it. “You can’t spoil a baby!” Now everyone is mad at me that I’ve somehow helped her too much and caused this. It’s an unfair trap. When exactly in time was this magic period when I was supposed to transition from responding to pushing boundaries and independence when her behavior has never shifted?

It’s gradual. It’s letting the baby fuss for short periods of time at first, not going into the nursery for every noise, moving the baby to her own room. It’s also going out on your own and maintaining your own identity. Go to dinner with a friend, hire a sitter, go away for the weekend with your spouse.

This is going to sound harsh - but you’re not as important as you think you are. Your child will be fine with you leaving the house. Even if she screams and throws fit after fit. She simply has you very well trained. She’s gotten exactly what she wants from your behavior which is you never ignore her. You’ll have a breakdown when she’s 12 and wants nothing to do with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

not true

How is this not true?

Nannies quit all the time, as OP knows. Some relaxing vacation for OP: “Honey you have to come home because the nanny quit and I have to go to work.”

Then don’t answer the phone.

This is not that difficult. The longer OP goes along with this dynamic the more challenging it will get.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

You are, very unfairly, getting the cause and effect wrong. I have never been apart from her for more than a few hours since birth. But NOT BY CHOICE. I would love, LOVE to go away for a week. Weeks. I have never left her because since birth no one else could soothe her or put her to bed. Not my husband, not my mother, not paid professionals. I think it’s unfair to claim I’m some attachment-woo, overprotective mother who created a child like this by refusing to be apart from her. No. I’m a pretty normal person who had a nanny and a plan lined up then compassionately changed my plans because my baby was super, super distressed (and everyone around me agreed).

I think the pp above is right in that if you have a child like this you end up walking on eggshells and accommodating over time.

I’m curious what you think might happen if you were to go away for a week? What is it that you’re imagining will occur or not occur?

DP. Nanny could quit. DH could neglect child.

1. I doubt the nanny would quit and leave the child alone or to fend for herself. That’s against the law and the nanny could be arrested.

2. I doubt the DH will neglect the child if he’s a normal guy who doesn’t have some sort of addiction problem. If he’s truly going to neglect the child then OP needs to consider divorce.

These are the types of excuses that moms give to not leave the house. It’s assuming some absolutely terrible thing *will* occur - DH could neglect the child - if they leave the house alone.

I mean, it doesn’t solve OP’s child’s problems that OP can leave the house more. Likely better for OP but the child will still almost certainly continue to tantrum and continue to be likely neurodiverse. OP has not created her child’s issues. An NT child does not reach these levels of distress so continuously.

You don’t know this.