Safe schools for a Jewish kid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry to segway here, but can someone please explain to me what anti-Zionist means? Does it mean being against Netanyahu/Israeli policies against Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank (i.e. blockade, terrible conditions, land grabs in territories, Greater Israel, etc.) OR does it mean there should be "One Palestine" with Israel ceasing to exist as a Jewish state and reclamation of Palestinian lands in Israel proper?

Just trying to get a better understanding of the terminology being thrown around these days.

Historically speaking, antizionism was the opposition to the creation of a Jewish state. Since the establishment of Israel in 1949, it has come to be interpreted as opposition to the policies of the Israeli government, specifically with regards to its policies in the West Bank and the institutional racism towards non-Jews.

Not really. If that’s what you mean when you say it, you should rethink it. Many people are opposed to their own governments or other governments without being opposed to the right of the state to exist. I am staunchly Zionist - I believe in Israel’s right to exist. I am against many of the policies of the current Israeli government especially with regards to the West Bank. I am in favor of a Palestinian state too. Generally anti-Zionism IS antisemitism but with an “acceptable” face.

No state has an inherent "right" to exist. People do, however.

signed,

a person born in former Yugoslavia

+1

You’re right, but that is a different point. This discussion is about why people argue that only one state, Israel, has no right to exist.

Uhm, no. It is exactly the point. It is the whole point.

I think Israel should be a sovereign nation. But Palestinians have a right to have a nation too.

Agree. And most Israelis and Jews agree too. But Hamas does not, because they have rejected a two state solution multiple times and they are calling for the destruction of the state of Israel.

It was the Fatah government in the West Bank that rejected the two state solution multiple times. Pretending to want to live side by side in peace is what they do best. Palestinian leadership doesn’t want a two state solution. They want it all. There are generations of brainwashed Palestinians who can’t understand why Israel exists and why they seem to have it so much better than they do.

And Jewish people are not brainwashed in the same way in defense of Israel? Why do you think any criticism of Israel is viewed instantly as antisemitism?

I don’t know how many times people have to say this to you but you aren’t listening. Israel has offered a two state solution multiple times. Most Israelis and most Jews worldwide support a two state solution. What they don’t support is a one state solution that eliminates the state of Israel, i.e. they don’t support their own destruction.
Criticism of Israel doesn’t have to be antisemitic but when it is anti-Zionist, it probably is antisemitic.

If you don’t understand that the 2 state solution that was offered up was deeply unfair to the Palestinians, then I don’t know what to tell you. People are not stupid. They know a raw deal when they see it.

There have been more than one offers of a two state solution with different borders. Why were they all unfair? Why was it not worth negotiating at all? The truth is that while most Israelis accept a two state solution - whatever it may be - most Palestinians want a one state solution. And their solution will not allow any Jews to live in it, either.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You could just as easily create threads called:

Safe schools for Asian students
Safe schools for LGBTQ students
Safe schools for Black students
Safe schools for female students
Safe schools for Muslim students

How about safe schools in general? Where can our kids go where school is just about school?

I'm afraid OP is just another culture warrior trying to use a sincere worry and throw gas on it for political purposes.

There is a politics forum for that

Those groups may all be marginalized but no one is marching around calling for their murder. Jewish students are under particular threat right now. Please open your eyes and acknowledge it!

Jewish people in the US are freaking out because people are saying mean words. Meanwhile muslims, black people, Asian people, and LGBTQ people are actually getting murdered.

Wow! I guess you were under a rock when Hamas murdered thousands of Jews. You may want to look it up so you can properly educate yourself before speaking. BTW... Muslims should be capitalized.

Can you read? Are you in Israel or the US? To sit here in the US and worry for your safety and tell others no one else is being murdered (which is what this is in response to - someone got upset that other groups were mentioned and said they're not being murdered) when not one Jewish person in the US has been harmed for being Jewish in the last gosh knows when, but other groups have been harmed for being who they are, is rich!

Not the most recent, but you must be new here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

Antizionist protests and statements are antisemitic. Your assertion that they are not does not make it true.

Objections to the Israeli government and its policies are not antizionist.

Lastly, Israel does not occupy Gaza and withdrew from the settlements in 2005.

You may find an antizionist statement to be antisemitic. But there are people who do not wish any harm to Jewish people and still don't think Israel should exist, or that if it exists, and should not exist as a Jewish state. You might say, but the elimination of Israel would de facto result in harm to Jewish people. I might agree with you. But the quagmire of mideast politics does not allow for easy black and white answer to these questions.

The alignment of Jewish interests with Israeli interests is a problem for both Jews and those who support Palestinians for humanitarian reasons. Because the Israeli government currently and historically has done many terrible things in the name of preserving the Jewish state. For Zionists, these actions can be considered justified because of the hostility towards Israel in the region. Certainly Israel is not a welcome entity in the region.

The argument of the current Israeli government (and many past Israeli governments) is that their hard line and the killing of Palestinians, including many innocent civilians, is necessary to preserve the existence of the state. This is their argument, not mine. So you cannot perfectly separate anti-Zionism from opposition to the current Israeli government and its policies. That government explicitly argues that these policies are necessary to ensure the survival of a Jewish state in a hostile region. I honestly don't know if that's true or not. Does anyone?

There are very few black and white truths in this situation. But yes, a person could argue against the existence of Israel without wishing any harm to Jews. It is not a practical position, but it's a possible one. Just as it is also possible for someone to believe the existence of Israel is necessary to the the survival of the Jewish people and also argue that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is unacceptable. And it's possible to argue that Hamas is an anti-semitic terrorist organization that murders Jewish people, but also to argue that not all Palestinians who give or receive support to Hamas hate Jews -- some of them are doing it for their own protection and survival.

I know, this conversation SUCKS. It feels impossible all the time. Everything is a minefield. But trying to impose one side's black and white absolutes on the more nuanced positions of the many people caught in the middle does not resolve anything. It just heightens conflict and makes everyone less safe.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

You are too reasonable and level headed for this thread.

Except there was no occupation of Gaza since 2005, Palestinian leadership never wanted a two state solution, and the term from “The River to the Sea” means expulsion of the Jews. When you start with a premise that is incorrect factually, the rest of your commentary is void. Once again it’s the western values of some well meaning sympathizers who can’t understand the tribal mentality of middle eastern Arabic culture.

There was an article in The Telegraph stating that most London protestors had no idea what “From the river to the sea” meant, and that most supported Israel and a two state solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to segway here, but can someone please explain to me what anti-Zionist means? Does it mean being against Netanyahu/Israeli policies against Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank (i.e. blockade, terrible conditions, land grabs in territories, Greater Israel, etc.) OR does it mean there should be "One Palestine" with Israel ceasing to exist as a Jewish state and reclamation of Palestinian lands in Israel proper?

Just trying to get a better understanding of the terminology being thrown around these days.

Historically speaking, antizionism was the opposition to the creation of a Jewish state. Since the establishment of Israel in 1949, it has come to be interpreted as opposition to the policies of the Israeli government, specifically with regards to its policies in the West Bank and the institutional racism towards non-Jews.

Not really. If that’s what you mean when you say it, you should rethink it. Many people are opposed to their own governments or other governments without being opposed to the right of the state to exist. I am staunchly Zionist - I believe in Israel’s right to exist. I am against many of the policies of the current Israeli government especially with regards to the West Bank. I am in favor of a Palestinian state too. Generally anti-Zionism IS antisemitism but with an “acceptable” face.

No state has an inherent "right" to exist. People do, however.

signed,

a person born in former Yugoslavia

+1

You’re right, but that is a different point. This discussion is about why people argue that only one state, Israel, has no right to exist.

Uhm, no. It is exactly the point. It is the whole point.

I think Israel should be a sovereign nation. But Palestinians have a right to have a nation too.

Agree. And most Israelis and Jews agree too. But Hamas does not, because they have rejected a two state solution multiple times and they are calling for the destruction of the state of Israel.

It was the Fatah government in the West Bank that rejected the two state solution multiple times. Pretending to want to live side by side in peace is what they do best. Palestinian leadership doesn’t want a two state solution. They want it all. There are generations of brainwashed Palestinians who can’t understand why Israel exists and why they seem to have it so much better than they do.

And Jewish people are not brainwashed in the same way in defense of Israel? Why do you think any criticism of Israel is viewed instantly as antisemitism?

I am a Jewish person who believes Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state and I also think that the current policies of the Israeli government are abhorrent. There are a reasonable lot of us. Criticism of the Israeli government is no more inherently antisemitic than criticism of the US government is un-American. In fact, I'd say that criticism of the government is a hallmark of patriotism in the US and in other western democracies. The problem being that many mistake jingoism for patriotism.

+1

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Check out Your College Bound Kid Podcast, episodes 307, 308, and 311 Interview with Alison Merzel on “Understanding and Supporting Jewish Students and the Threat of Antisemitism”

https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2023/04/20/interview-135-alison-merzel-on-understanding-and-supporting-jewish-students-and-the-treat-of-antisemitism/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No doubt there is a boatload of antisemitism rearing its ugly head right now but I feel like we should note the difference between antisemitism and antizionism.

Thank you for taking every opportunity to point this out, every time a Jewish person mentions antisemitism. It’s really vital to keep putting us in our place, and I’m sure you do the same thing for all minorities who experience hatred. Thanks again for your good work.

DP, but several posts on this thread have portrayed antizionist protests and statements as antisemitic, when they are different. A college professor expressing objections to the Israeli government and Israeli policy with regards to Palestinians is not being antisemitic, and yet several posts in this thread have described it that way.

Several posts in this thread have also said that there have been protests on college campuses calling for the murder or extermination of Jews. If that were true, it would indeed be a terrible thing. But it is not true. There have been protests on college campuses objecting to Israeli occupation of Gaza, arguing for both a two-state solution and in some cases for the elimination of the Jewish state. What happens is that people then extrapolate that they believe those positions and proposals would result in Jewish deaths. I agree in some cases! But that does not mean that the people making these arguments are anti-semitic. It means that they are oppose Israel, not Jews.

If you don't want people popping up in every thread explaining the difference between antizionism and antisemitism, then please stop calling people who express objections to the far right Israeli government and their concerning policies as "antisemitic."

You are too reasonable and level headed for this thread.

Except there was no occupation of Gaza since 2005, Palestinian leadership never wanted a two state solution, and the term from “The River to the Sea” means expulsion of the Jews. When you start with a premise that is incorrect factually, the rest of your commentary is void. Once again it’s the western values of some well meaning sympathizers who can’t understand the tribal mentality of middle eastern Arabic culture.

There was an article in The Telegraph stating that most London protestors had no idea what “From the river to the sea” meant, and that most supported Israel and a two state solution.

The Palestinians don’t support a two state solution. Whenever they have been offered a chance at a state, they have never even made a counter-offer. Those protestors are not only willfully ignorant, but also so quick to jump on the bandwagon that there must be an element of anti-Semitism involved. How else would you explain so many protesting in favor of Hamas almost immediately after Palestinians murdered innocent Jews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, back to the original Q: - where is there a school OP’s kid can go without being targeted? I thought this was a foolish question until I saw all the mean, self righteous posts. Now I realize it’s a real problem for Jewish kids.

Exactly. The commentary here demonstrates just why OP asked the question. Hardly anyone is even talking about college recommendations anymore. I’m sorry, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What schools in Virginia are safe for a Jewish girl??

I agree with prev posters having large numbers of Jewish students does not necessarily mean they feel safe. Cornell, Brown, Columbia and Harvard all have large numbers of Jewish students and they also have a lot of Muslim students who are openly anti Israel and anti Jewish now with all going on in Gaza. The pres of Jewish organization at brown was on tv saying Jewish students don’t feel safe. Jewish Students at Columbia were targeted by pro Palestinian Muslim group and locked in the library. I would say schools that are less diverse and more conservative may be a better place from what we are currently seeing. Biden and these colleges are not doing enough. Europe is starting to prohibit these protests and are revoking visas of anti-Semites. We need to combat this behavior head on and have a zero tolerance policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, back to the original Q: - where is there a school OP’s kid can go without being targeted? I thought this was a foolish question until I saw all the mean, self righteous posts. Now I realize it’s a real problem for Jewish kids.

I went to a wealthy preppy small college that had very few Jewish or Muslim kids. I did not know any Muslim students but the few Jewish kids were accepted socially and did well. We had zero issue with race or protests or anti Semitism or Islamaphobia.

I don’t want to say the school but I would say a small liberal arts school that’s not very diverse in New England or the mid Atlantic would be a good fit. Diverse enough so they’re not the only Jewish kid but not too diverse so they are not a target of other diverse groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, back to the original Q: - where is there a school OP’s kid can go without being targeted? I thought this was a foolish question until I saw all the mean, self righteous posts. Now I realize it’s a real problem for Jewish kids.

I went to a wealthy preppy small college that had very few Jewish or Muslim kids. I did not know any Muslim students but the few Jewish kids were accepted socially and did well. We had zero issue with race or protests or anti Semitism or Islamaphobia.

I don’t want to say the school but I would say a small liberal arts school that’s not very diverse in New England or the mid Atlantic would be a good fit. Diverse enough so they’re not the only Jewish kid but not too diverse so they are not a target of other diverse groups.

This post is creepy. The idea that Jewish kids are safest as one of only a few minority students in a wealthy, not diverse school is nuts. Also the idea that "issues with race" (i.e. people talking about race) and "protests" are problems that jewish students need to be protected from is so bizarre.

Diversity is not a threat to Jewish students. Protests on college campuses are normal and not dangerous. The answer is not to make sure your kid is surrounded by lots of rich white people and as few black or brown people as possible, but especially as few Muslims as possible. WTF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, back to the original Q: - where is there a school OP’s kid can go without being targeted? I thought this was a foolish question until I saw all the mean, self righteous posts. Now I realize it’s a real problem for Jewish kids.

I went to a wealthy preppy small college that had very few Jewish or Muslim kids. I did not know any Muslim students but the few Jewish kids were accepted socially and did well. We had zero issue with race or protests or anti Semitism or Islamaphobia.

I don’t want to say the school but I would say a small liberal arts school that’s not very diverse in New England or the mid Atlantic would be a good fit. Diverse enough so they’re not the only Jewish kid but not too diverse so they are not a target of other diverse groups.

This post is creepy. The idea that Jewish kids are safest as one of only a few minority students in a wealthy, not diverse school is nuts. Also the idea that "issues with race" (i.e. people talking about race) and "protests" are problems that jewish students need to be protected from is so bizarre.

Diversity is not a threat to Jewish students. Protests on college campuses are normal and not dangerous. The answer is not to make sure your kid is surrounded by lots of rich white people and as few black or brown people as possible, but especially as few Muslims as possible. WTF.

Are you not watching the news? The schools with protests are where Jewish kids don’t feel safe. Did you see Tulane where the two pro Palestinian protestors showed up in a truck dressed like Hamas and burned the Israeli flag? You are not paying attention. Students at all of these schools are having press conferences saying they don’t feel safe and are being targeted. I am not hearing of these things at schools that are less diverse and don’t have a culture of protests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could just as easily create threads called:

Safe schools for Asian students
Safe schools for LGBTQ students
Safe schools for Black students
Safe schools for female students
Safe schools for Muslim students

How about safe schools in general? Where can our kids go where school is just about school?

I'm afraid OP is just another culture warrior trying to use a sincere worry and throw gas on it for political purposes.

There is a politics forum for that

Those groups may all be marginalized but no one is marching around calling for their murder. Jewish students are under particular threat right now. Please open your eyes and acknowledge it!

Really? No one is walking around calling for the murder of Muslims or in fact murdering them? Do you watch the news? A man murdered a Muslim CHILD for being muslim in IL a week ago. A Muslim pediatrician was murdered YESTERDAY in MD for being Muslim. Police are out here murdering unarmed black people everyday and have been for years? An entire political party is not out here trying to exterminate LGBTQIA people? Please!

that pediatrician was in Texas- not MD. Jeez, you scared me, im Pakistani ( and have tons of drs in my friends and family, physicians are often subject to violent attacks b/c they have a public facing job) and freaked out! Its not a safe place for jews or muslims right now but the truth is that bigoted hateful people have a muscle memory of mob violence against Jews and Muslims are also more resilient b/c we have experienced this recently and only recently. we dont have a millennia long history of pograms and fear, we mostly come from civilizations that were equal to anyone else and strong, not minority populations that were subject to violence. We dont have that history of being victimized and hunted so even though it’s dangerous for us, I think most muslim people aren't triggered by historical trauma. So far only muslims have actually died but lets hope that there aren't any large scale attacks on Muslim or Jewish centers/schools.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, back to the original Q: - where is there a school OP’s kid can go without being targeted? I thought this was a foolish question until I saw all the mean, self righteous posts. Now I realize it’s a real problem for Jewish kids.

I went to a wealthy preppy small college that had very few Jewish or Muslim kids. I did not know any Muslim students but the few Jewish kids were accepted socially and did well. We had zero issue with race or protests or anti Semitism or Islamaphobia.

I don’t want to say the school but I would say a small liberal arts school that’s not very diverse in New England or the mid Atlantic would be a good fit. Diverse enough so they’re not the only Jewish kid but not too diverse so they are not a target of other diverse groups.

This post is creepy. The idea that Jewish kids are safest as one of only a few minority students in a wealthy, not diverse school is nuts. Also the idea that "issues with race" (i.e. people talking about race) and "protests" are problems that jewish students need to be protected from is so bizarre.

Diversity is not a threat to Jewish students. Protests on college campuses are normal and not dangerous. The answer is not to make sure your kid is surrounded by lots of rich white people and as few black or brown people as possible, but especially as few Muslims as possible. WTF.

I never said Jewish people need to be protected from issues of race. That’s not what I said but what I said is it appears that many of the pro-Palestine Protesters do tend to be diverse And those protests are making Jewish students feel unsafe. To avoid that type of climate I would go where there are not those types of groups or protests being held.