Do conservatives want to ban transgenderism for the same reasons they want to ban abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please. Surgeries are children are just not that common. Give me a break. Sure you can point to individual cases but this not wide spread and not done without parental consent. It just doesn’t happen and is a massive red herring.

Puberty blockers are certainly more common and I agree with PP, let’s study it in a way where we get good data and try to make the best decisions based on real knowledge and not fear. But we won’t. We’ll just ban everything and not seek actual knowledge.

Look, I personally dislike religious whackos. I don’t care what religion. I think they’re all incredibly dangerous, especially for children. Does that mean we should ban religion? Of course not. Instead - hear me out here, stay with me- parents should make these decisions for their children and I stay out of those decisions that aren’t my children. I just don’t get who the hell any of you think you are to think you have any say in other peoples children. Especially since kids are getting blown to bits on a daily basis and your party has nothing but thoughts and prayers. Yeah that’s effective. Praying… yeah right.

So surgery is happening? I thought it wasn’t happening on minors. Which is it? I’m confused.

Happens to baby boys all the time.

This thread is discussing so-called gender affirmation and surgical procedures on minors. You are saying it happens all of the time. I thought it didn’t happen at all?

Cons are all up in arms because supposedly children are being maimed through surgery to their genitals and they want to ban that. Baby boys get maimed all the time in this country with surgery to their genitalia. Do you disagree with that?

These baby boys who are circumcised are not permanently sterilized, nor given non-functioning “organs” that will require medical intervention for the rest of their lives, nor turned into enuchs with zero capacity for sexual function as adults.

But you knew that, right? So stop with the ridiculous comparison

There you go again with the obsession with fertility.

NP. Fertility is more important than any transvestite’s desire.

Not someone else’s fertility you creep.

Abortion & trans issue go hand in hand.

Of course they go hand in hand. These people are obsessed with fertility (as shown). Once someone has had bottom surgery, they're sterilized. If you're sterilized, you cannot produce offspring. Think of all the babies that will never be produced by transsexuals! They ban abortion and want to ensure fertility. It's really disgusting how they believe they should be able to decide what others do with their own bodies. Both abortion and transgender medication and surgeries are bodily autonomy issues that the religious right think they should have control over.

No one is suggesting banning surgery and hormones for adults. The issue people have a problem with is minors undergoing gender transition. How can a child possibly consent to something that could lead to infertility and/or the ability to experience sexual pleasure? It's the same reason why there are laws in place to ban minors from purchasing alcohol and cigarettes and getting tattoos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s all about enforcing gender roles where women are subservient to men. The genders must be clearly defined and men must control the relationship. Every iteration gets more abstract than the time before. First round is about women voting. Second round is about women having equal roles in society - owning property, having bank accounts, equal pay, etc. Third round is about accepting gay people into polite society. Now it’s politically unwise and socially unacceptable to fight those old battles directly. So you bash transgender people & indirectly try to push women back by taking away reproductive rights & making birth control harder to obtain.

Exactly, forcing women who are imprisoned to live with biological male sexual predators is truly helping women no longer be subservient to men.

Is this really happening?

Here you go: https://nypost.com/2022/04/25/transgender-rikers-inmate-gets-7-years-for-raping-female-prisoner/

What?? How is this legal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

I don't think there are any reliable statistics because it's unregulated and experimental. It's not even a medical specialty-- any surgeon can declare themselves a transgender surgery specialist-- there's no professional organization or licensing requirements.

In any case, you're responding to my statement that being concerned about minors getting transgender surgeries isn't really at all like being a Nazi, and your response is non-sequitur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

I don't think there are any reliable statistics because it's unregulated and experimental. It's not even a medical specialty-- any surgeon can declare themselves a transgender surgery specialist-- there's no professional organization or licensing requirements.

In any case, you're responding to my statement that being concerned about minors getting transgender surgeries isn't really at all like being a Nazi, and your response is non-sequitur.

What are your medical qualifications and experience in witnessing such surgeries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

Also, given what you laid out here, are you saying the American Association of Pediatrics is a Nazi organization? I'm confused about your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please. Surgeries are children are just not that common. Give me a break. Sure you can point to individual cases but this not wide spread and not done without parental consent. It just doesn’t happen and is a massive red herring.

Puberty blockers are certainly more common and I agree with PP, let’s study it in a way where we get good data and try to make the best decisions based on real knowledge and not fear. But we won’t. We’ll just ban everything and not seek actual knowledge.

Look, I personally dislike religious whackos. I don’t care what religion. I think they’re all incredibly dangerous, especially for children. Does that mean we should ban religion? Of course not. Instead - hear me out here, stay with me- parents should make these decisions for their children and I stay out of those decisions that aren’t my children. I just don’t get who the hell any of you think you are to think you have any say in other peoples children. Especially since kids are getting blown to bits on a daily basis and your party has nothing but thoughts and prayers. Yeah that’s effective. Praying… yeah right.

So surgery is happening? I thought it wasn’t happening on minors. Which is it? I’m confused.

Happens to baby boys all the time.

This thread is discussing so-called gender affirmation and surgical procedures on minors. You are saying it happens all of the time. I thought it didn’t happen at all?

Cons are all up in arms because supposedly children are being maimed through surgery to their genitals and they want to ban that. Baby boys get maimed all the time in this country with surgery to their genitalia. Do you disagree with that?

These baby boys who are circumcised are not permanently sterilized, nor given non-functioning “organs” that will require medical intervention for the rest of their lives, nor turned into enuchs with zero capacity for sexual function as adults.

But you knew that, right? So stop with the ridiculous comparison

There you go again with the obsession with fertility.

NP. Fertility is more important than any transvestite’s desire.

Not someone else’s fertility you creep.

Abortion & trans issue go hand in hand.

Of course they go hand in hand. These people are obsessed with fertility (as shown). Once someone has had bottom surgery, they're sterilized. If you're sterilized, you cannot produce offspring. Think of all the babies that will never be produced by transsexuals! They ban abortion and want to ensure fertility. It's really disgusting how they believe they should be able to decide what others do with their own bodies. Both abortion and transgender medication and surgeries are bodily autonomy issues that the religious right think they should have control over.

No one is suggesting banning surgery and hormones for adults. The issue people have a problem with is minors undergoing gender transition. How can a child possibly consent to something that could lead to infertility and/or the ability to experience sexual pleasure? It's the same reason why there are laws in place to ban minors from purchasing alcohol and cigarettes and getting tattoos.

Just give them time. You think we believe you extremists after what you've done with abortion rights? Not a fat chance in hell. I happen to know some RW evangelicals who absolutely want to ban surgery and hormones for adults. Also dress codes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We want to ban it because mutilating children is weird, depraved, evil.

This was the rallying cry when they banned gender affirming care in Indiana even though no transgender surgeries were being performed on minors in the state. That’s how you know legislators are lying about their motivations. They banned puberty blockers which some kids need & which reduce suicide and self-harm. But right-wing legislators only wanted to talk about nonexistent surgeries.

Puberty blockers are not approved by the FDA to treat gender dysphoria, their impact on brain development is largely unknown, they can unleash a host of side effects — the extent of most are not fully understood, yet they’re doled out like candy to thousands of children. Regardless of one’s views of gender identity, this approach is flat out wrong.

You sound like the COVID anti-vaxxers who were full of shit too.

In any case, the people pushing the legislation in Indiana weren't talking about the FDA -- it was all fearmongering about child mutilation.

So puberty blockers and cross sex hormones are entirely safe for minors?

Not providing them isn’t entirely safe. Sometimes the risks of not treating gender dysmorphia are greater than the risks of puberty blockers. Let kids and their parents with the advice of physicians weigh those choices.

Treated as OCD with the proper meds for OCD. It’s a form of OCD

You've published research on this? Or are you making medical diagnoses without a medical license?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

I don't think there are any reliable statistics because it's unregulated and experimental. It's not even a medical specialty-- any surgeon can declare themselves a transgender surgery specialist-- there's no professional organization or licensing requirements.

In any case, you're responding to my statement that being concerned about minors getting transgender surgeries isn't really at all like being a Nazi, and your response is non-sequitur.

What are your medical qualifications and experience in witnessing such surgeries?

I think you're obliquely implying that in order to oppose transgender surgeries on minors, you must be a surgeon with at least adjacent experience operating on transgender youth. Is that what you're trying to say? If so, I reject that on its face. The flip side would also have to be true, that you cannot be an advocate of these surgeries either, so you also would be unqualified to have an opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

I don't think there are any reliable statistics because it's unregulated and experimental. It's not even a medical specialty-- any surgeon can declare themselves a transgender surgery specialist-- there's no professional organization or licensing requirements.

In any case, you're responding to my statement that being concerned about minors getting transgender surgeries isn't really at all like being a Nazi, and your response is non-sequitur.

I was responding to your point that conservatives don't believe you can have your teenage daughter's breasts removed and I wondered if you knew how many of these surgeries are actually taking place. And apparently you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

Also, given what you laid out here, are you saying the American Association of Pediatrics is a Nazi organization? I'm confused about your point.

What? No. I'm saying that the AAP has a standard of gender-affirming care and performing surgery on minors isn't part of that except in very specific cases. Gender-affirming care is performed by physicians. Physicians who take oaths and are overseen by governing bodies and state licensing boards. I'm in favor of leaving these decisions up to the parents and those physicians, and not politicians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

I don't think there are any reliable statistics because it's unregulated and experimental. It's not even a medical specialty-- any surgeon can declare themselves a transgender surgery specialist-- there's no professional organization or licensing requirements.

In any case, you're responding to my statement that being concerned about minors getting transgender surgeries isn't really at all like being a Nazi, and your response is non-sequitur.

I was responding to your point that conservatives don't believe you can have your teenage daughter's breasts removed and I wondered if you knew how many of these surgeries are actually taking place. And apparently you don't.

So it’s OK teen girls are having elective mastectomies, as long as there is no data showing how many of these surgeries are taking place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Holocaust Museum in Berlin earlier today. Homophobia, anti-trans, and anti-abortion are all linked:



Republicans are gleefully skipping down a well-trod path.

So the only way to not be a Nazi is to be in favor of performing sex changing surgeries on minors?

I thought you supported “parents rights”? Maybe just let parents figure out what is best for their kids. None of your business

Parents don't have unlimited rights. Conservatives are actually pretty consistent on this. You can't kill a 5 month old fetus, you can't have your teenage daughter's breasts removed, etc. But, you are dodging here. You allege that in order to not be a Nazi, you have to be in favor of minors having surgeries to remove their genitals. That's a weird definition of Nazi. Nazis were famously all about grim experimental surgeries.

Do you have any verified statistics on how many of these surgeries are taking place on children? Because as you read the recommendations by the American Academy of Pediatrics on gender affirming care that’s not a course of treatment that is normally recommended at that age.

Also, given what you laid out here, are you saying the American Association of Pediatrics is a Nazi organization? I'm confused about your point.

What? No. I'm saying that the AAP has a standard of gender-affirming care and performing surgery on minors isn't part of that except in very specific cases. Gender-affirming care is performed by physicians. Physicians who take oaths and are overseen by governing bodies and state licensing boards. I'm in favor of leaving these decisions up to the parents and those physicians, and not politicians.

Why are the standards for care for gender dysphoria so different in the US vs Europe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We want to ban it because mutilating children is weird, depraved, evil.

This was the rallying cry when they banned gender affirming care in Indiana even though no transgender surgeries were being performed on minors in the state. That’s how you know legislators are lying about their motivations. They banned puberty blockers which some kids need & which reduce suicide and self-harm. But right-wing legislators only wanted to talk about nonexistent surgeries.

Puberty blockers are not approved by the FDA to treat gender dysphoria, their impact on brain development is largely unknown, they can unleash a host of side effects — the extent of most are not fully understood, yet they’re doled out like candy to thousands of children. Regardless of one’s views of gender identity, this approach is flat out wrong.

You sound like the COVID anti-vaxxers who were full of shit too.

In any case, the people pushing the legislation in Indiana weren't talking about the FDA -- it was all fearmongering about child mutilation.

So puberty blockers and cross sex hormones are entirely safe for minors?

Not providing them isn’t entirely safe. Sometimes the risks of not treating gender dysmorphia are greater than the risks of puberty blockers. Let kids and their parents with the advice of physicians weigh those choices.

Treated as OCD with the proper meds for OCD. It’s a form of OCD

So, in your world, physicians, parents, and kids are going through all kinds of misery dealing with being transgender, undergoing transgender treatments, and enduring the scorn of individuals who hate transgender people when, all the while, an end to the misery is as simple as treating OCD. And they're doing this because, why? Stupid and evil?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We want to ban it because mutilating children is weird, depraved, evil.

This was the rallying cry when they banned gender affirming care in Indiana even though no transgender surgeries were being performed on minors in the state. That’s how you know legislators are lying about their motivations. They banned puberty blockers which some kids need & which reduce suicide and self-harm. But right-wing legislators only wanted to talk about nonexistent surgeries.

Puberty blockers are not approved by the FDA to treat gender dysphoria, their impact on brain development is largely unknown, they can unleash a host of side effects — the extent of most are not fully understood, yet they’re doled out like candy to thousands of children. Regardless of one’s views of gender identity, this approach is flat out wrong.

You sound like the COVID anti-vaxxers who were full of shit too.

In any case, the people pushing the legislation in Indiana weren't talking about the FDA -- it was all fearmongering about child mutilation.

So puberty blockers and cross sex hormones are entirely safe for minors?

They will claim that if you don't buy the hormones, your kid will die by suicide. That way parents won't question the side effects.

Seems like you don't know any children who have attempted suicide or managed to do it. Would you like to talk to someone whose trans child succeeded? Or are you a hypocrite who really isn't interested in other people's lives except to control them to score political points?

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/kentucky-senator-says-transgender-son-died-suicide-rcna62747

I think that is anti science. You need to demonstrate that these interventions reduce suicides. Simply calling me names won't resolve these concerns. It is totally legitimate to ask these questions and to need to see some evidence that this is an effective suicide reduction approach.

Is there any evidence of this??