I got an email telling me my daughter is a mean girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume it's true, and I agree with a PP that this kind of behavior is creepy. Another perspective is that not everyone in middle school is either "mean" or "nice" and that things can be complicated. Girls get a lot of pressure to always be "nice" in middle school - smiling in the hall, saying hi, telling people they are pretty. It can be sort of toxic.

OP says her daughter is 17, which makes no sense. This is middle school behavior. The kid sending the email sounds stunted or delayed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is tricky. And I'm also suprised your daughter is 17 - this sounds like 13/14 year old behavior.

Was the letter in any way threatening to your daughter? Did it talk about school behavior specifically?

Considering your daughter is 17, and if she's a confident kid that can handle knowing someone doesn't like her enough to do this, I'd consider sharing it with both your daughter and the school admin.

I'd talk to my daughter about bullying/mean girl behavior, and ask her to think about if she's behaving this way to anyone - intentionally or not.

I'd consider responding to the email and pointing out that it's hard to act on this when it's present anonymously, since it takes both parties being involved to resolve this sort of thing. But in the end, I don't think I'd respond at all.

OP here - the email was not at all threatening. It basically just said “I know X. Over the past year, she has treated people horribly. She says untrue things to hurt people and once she decides she doesn’t like someone, she threatens anyone who talks to that person. She gossips about all her friends and she is hurting so many people. I think you should know this because your daughter is hurting so many people. You should know she is like this because one day people aren’t going to put up with her behavior.”

There is another paragraph with some more identifying information that I don’t want to share. The repetition of the “hurting so many people”and just the overall tone of the email seem like a teen texting (to me).

OK, that’s a threat.I would involve the police to create a paper trail and a record in case this unstable person (teen or adult) escalates later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trust the letter.

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be curious to find out, from those of you who think the email is creepy or stalkerish, what you think a tween or teen who was being bullied, gossiped about, unnecessarily excluded, teased, etc., should do to make that behavior stop?

Because the problem is that kids in that situation often have very few options. Teachers/administrators will often refuse to do anything or get involved unless a child is committing or threatening physical violence. So spreading a nasty rumor about how Larla is "weird" because of the way she dresses or because she just moved or doesn't have the right clothes or doesn't conform in some other way? This will be treated as a non-issue and someone complaining about it will be told to simply stay away from the perpetrators and "make other friends." But if the people doing it have a lot of social status and are vicious, which sometimes they are, they will escalate and Larla will become a pariah for no good reason. Social media might become involved, including finsta accounts that adults don't know about and can't see. The behavior will be carefully calibrated to ensure the perpetrators have plausible deniability?

Parents might not care either, and since kids are more likely to become targeted if they appear weak or nonconformist in other ways, it's often the case that victims of this kind of relational bullying have parents who might be abusive or absent, which is part of what marks them as a target to begin with.

There's no other place to appeal. If you met the perpetrators mom in passing or got the sense that they might be horrified to discover how their child was behaving, I don't think it's weird or creepy or stalkerish to try appealing to that person. I think it's desperate, but I think these situations can be desperate.

There are a few options here. If this email came from a child — and from the wording I absolutely do not think it does, I think it is a boundary-transgressive and inappropriate adult — the child needs to go to a school counselor first. If it is an adult, then it needs to be non-anonymous to have further conversation.

I would never, ever engage with an anonymous email like this. It is shocking to me that anyone thinks it is appropriate, to be honest.

+1, and if OP’s kid is 17, then did a crazy mom really send this email on behalf of her 16 or 17-year-old teenager? Bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“I will not be sharing any anonymous accusations with my daughter. Please find an adult you trust to talk with directly.”

That would just make mom the place where the daughter obviously got it from.

Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume it's true, and I agree with a PP that this kind of behavior is creepy. Another perspective is that not everyone in middle school is either "mean" or "nice" and that things can be complicated. Girls get a lot of pressure to always be "nice" in middle school - smiling in the hall, saying hi, telling people they are pretty. It can be sort of toxic.

OP says her daughter is 17, which makes no sense. This is middle school behavior. The kid sending the email sounds stunted or delayed.

+1. In middle school I might believe it. By late high school, no one pays attention to mean girls. They might still exist, but kids don’t get so upset about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would discuss it with your daughter. I don't know why you'd worry about it upsetting her -- as long as you stay empathetic and supportive of her, this is just something she should be able to deal with.

I also think there's a vast difference between being expected to "be everyone's friend" and being expected to treat everyone with kindness, and I'd have a conversation about that. Being popular does in fact come with some responsibilities, and one of them is that your behavior and opinions carry more weight. Even if your daughter does not mean to be gossipy or exclusionary, it can happen very easily. Sometimes teenagers (and adult women) normalize behaviors like talking about other girls when they aren't around, or keeping certain activities "secret" in order to avoid inviting certain people. These are unkind behaviors and there are better ways to handle them. I think you need to be talking with your daughter about what those better ways are.

As is always the case with this subject on DCUM, I remain disappointed in the attitude so many people have that kids who are less popular should simply accept being treated poorly by their peers even if that treatment is unnecessary and harmful.

Personally I’m shocked by the number of people who seem to think that an anonymous creepy email should be taken at face value. It is actually insane to me.

If I responded, the only response I would have is “I do not engage with anonymous correspondents.”

PP here. I am shocked at the imbalance too. Of course the expectation is that your child needs to be kind out in the world, etc., but I think this situation is equally likely to be a personal beef between the daughter and the anonymous letter writer.

My money says the author is a heartbroken parent. OP should take this seriously and not listen to the mean girls on dcum who think this behavior is ok.

Then that “heartbroken parent” should have PICKED UP THE PHONE (yes, cellphone numbers can be found on the internet), identified herself and used her words. Big girl pants. This ridiculous anonymous email with a veiled threat is not how intelligent adults behave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would discuss it with your daughter. I don't know why you'd worry about it upsetting her -- as long as you stay empathetic and supportive of her, this is just something she should be able to deal with.

I also think there's a vast difference between being expected to "be everyone's friend" and being expected to treat everyone with kindness, and I'd have a conversation about that. Being popular does in fact come with some responsibilities, and one of them is that your behavior and opinions carry more weight. Even if your daughter does not mean to be gossipy or exclusionary, it can happen very easily. Sometimes teenagers (and adult women) normalize behaviors like talking about other girls when they aren't around, or keeping certain activities "secret" in order to avoid inviting certain people. These are unkind behaviors and there are better ways to handle them. I think you need to be talking with your daughter about what those better ways are.

As is always the case with this subject on DCUM, I remain disappointed in the attitude so many people have that kids who are less popular should simply accept being treated poorly by their peers even if that treatment is unnecessary and harmful.

Personally I’m shocked by the number of people who seem to think that an anonymous creepy email should be taken at face value. It is actually insane to me.

If I responded, the only response I would have is “I do not engage with anonymous correspondents.”

PP here. I am shocked at the imbalance too. Of course the expectation is that your child needs to be kind out in the world, etc., but I think this situation is equally likely to be a personal beef between the daughter and the anonymous letter writer.

My money says the author is a heartbroken parent. OP should take this seriously and not listen to the mean girls on dcum who think this behavior is ok.

Nobody thinks bullying is okay. Sending vaguely threatening anonymous emails is not remotely okay. It is shocking you think it is.

OP never said anything to indicate it was threatening in any way. That was what other posters put on it. And plenty of people are prepared to disregard it and blame the author, which indicates they consider finding out if it is true completely unimportant.

Sigh. The threatening sentence has been repeatedly pointed out is this thread. You’re so desperately invested in the Poor Bullied Victim fanfiction you’re writing that you continue t choose to ignore it, but that’s on you,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would discuss it with your daughter. I don't know why you'd worry about it upsetting her -- as long as you stay empathetic and supportive of her, this is just something she should be able to deal with.

I also think there's a vast difference between being expected to "be everyone's friend" and being expected to treat everyone with kindness, and I'd have a conversation about that. Being popular does in fact come with some responsibilities, and one of them is that your behavior and opinions carry more weight. Even if your daughter does not mean to be gossipy or exclusionary, it can happen very easily. Sometimes teenagers (and adult women) normalize behaviors like talking about other girls when they aren't around, or keeping certain activities "secret" in order to avoid inviting certain people. These are unkind behaviors and there are better ways to handle them. I think you need to be talking with your daughter about what those better ways are.

As is always the case with this subject on DCUM, I remain disappointed in the attitude so many people have that kids who are less popular should simply accept being treated poorly by their peers even if that treatment is unnecessary and harmful.

Personally I’m shocked by the number of people who seem to think that an anonymous creepy email should be taken at face value. It is actually insane to me.

If I responded, the only response I would have is “I do not engage with anonymous correspondents.”

PP here. I am shocked at the imbalance too. Of course the expectation is that your child needs to be kind out in the world, etc., but I think this situation is equally likely to be a personal beef between the daughter and the anonymous letter writer.

My money says the author is a heartbroken parent. OP should take this seriously and not listen to the mean girls on dcum who think this behavior is ok.

Nobody thinks bullying is okay. Sending vaguely threatening anonymous emails is not remotely okay. It is shocking you think it is.

OP never said anything to indicate it was threatening in any way. That was what other posters put on it. And plenty of people are prepared to disregard it and blame the author, which indicates they consider finding out if it is true completely unimportant.

Sigh. The threatening sentence has been repeatedly pointed out is this thread. You’re so desperately invested in the Poor Bullied Victim fanfiction you’re writing that you continue t choose to ignore it, but that’s on you,

I suspect PP you are responding to regularly sends people threatening anonymous emails and is not happy that people don’t believe them.

[Anonymous]

It does track that DCUM is filled with posters who make a habit of sending anonymous emails and who are unhappy to learn that normal people view anonymous emails as creepy and threatening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somebody is the mean girl. It's probably true.

My general impression from what my kids tell me is the "popular" girls in middle school (assuming it's this age group) are in fact pretty mean and awful. There is a lot of drama and talking about others and pushing kids out of the group and changing alliances. And a lot of paranoia about losing status.

Yes, and I would actually worry if my daughter were one of the popular girls in middle school. There are multiple studies now showing that popularity in the "tween" years (as opposed to high school years) is generally a predictor of precocious sexual activity, poor mental health, and poor academic and professional achievements, long-term. Not the best example, but the first that came up when googling: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/privileged-pressured/201809/middle-school-popularity-can-backfire-over-time

Anyway, OP, regardless of this letter, I'd really take some time to figure out what YOU feel about your daughter's "popularity," and if you might be sending the wrong messages to her about what success looks like and what she should and should not value with regard to her school life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be curious to find out, from those of you who think the email is creepy or stalkerish, what you think a tween or teen who was being bullied, gossiped about, unnecessarily excluded, teased, etc., should do to make that behavior stop?

Because the problem is that kids in that situation often have very few options. Teachers/administrators will often refuse to do anything or get involved unless a child is committing or threatening physical violence. So spreading a nasty rumor about how Larla is "weird" because of the way she dresses or because she just moved or doesn't have the right clothes or doesn't conform in some other way? This will be treated as a non-issue and someone complaining about it will be told to simply stay away from the perpetrators and "make other friends." But if the people doing it have a lot of social status and are vicious, which sometimes they are, they will escalate and Larla will become a pariah for no good reason. Social media might become involved, including finsta accounts that adults don't know about and can't see. The behavior will be carefully calibrated to ensure the perpetrators have plausible deniability?

Parents might not care either, and since kids are more likely to become targeted if they appear weak or nonconformist in other ways, it's often the case that victims of this kind of relational bullying have parents who might be abusive or absent, which is part of what marks them as a target to begin with.

There's no other place to appeal. If you met the perpetrators mom in passing or got the sense that they might be horrified to discover how their child was behaving, I don't think it's weird or creepy or stalkerish to try appealing to that person. I think it's desperate, but I think these situations can be desperate.

There are a few options here. If this email came from a child — and from the wording I absolutely do not think it does, I think it is a boundary-transgressive and inappropriate adult — the child needs to go to a school counselor first. If it is an adult, then it needs to be non-anonymous to have further conversation.

I would never, ever engage with an anonymous email like this. It is shocking to me that anyone thinks it is appropriate, to be honest.

+1, and if OP’s kid is 17, then did a crazy mom really send this email on behalf of her 16 or 17-year-old teenager? Bizarre.

I vote for the crazy mom posing as a kid theory.

[Anonymous]

The instinct to call a whistleblower "threatening", "unhinged", or "unstable" is common. This is always the first defense people reach for when they don't want to confront an allegation of wrongdoing. It is always easier to blame someone making an allegation for being crazy than to even take a minimal amount of time to investigate and see if there might be even some truth to the allegation. Accusing the accuser is cleaner because it absolves you of having to do anything.

It's a bad instinct, though. After all, if you investigate and there's nothing to it, you've lost nothing. You've had a conversation with your teenage daughter about bullying. That's it. No harm. If anything, looking into it and finding nothing is better than doing nothing at all, because it means that if the allegations get escalated (to the school, for instance) you can say "Yes, I looked into this and this is what I found -- there is nothing to it." You should of course look into it.

Of course, if you investigate and you find something, you have an obligation to do something about it. That's what freaks people out.

Better to just call this letter writer weird, immature, or accuse her of issuing threats (the letter contains no threat of any kind, just an empty warning that treating people poorly may not be something that can be done indefinitely without consequence -- it is the letter writer's hope that there will be consequences for bad behavior, not a threat). Then you don't have to do the hard thing and actually address bullying behavior if it is occurring.

[Anonymous]

NP. Haven't read all 12 pages. If I received an e-mail like this, I would take it to my child's school counselor or a trusted teacher. Look for someone who knows the kids and either knows what's going on or could can ask around, quietly.

I don't think you have enough information to know if your child is being mean to others or if this is someone being mean to your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The description of your DD as a popular girl who is frustrated with expectations that she is friends with everyone is sending up red flags for me. Like Gretchen Wieners cluelessly saying I can’t help it that I’m popular.

I agree it set off red flags for me too.

I totally disagree. I think the red flag is the kid who took the action of anonymously emailing a worrisome message.

I agree, especially since DD is 17. The truth may be somewhere in the middle, but I wouldn’t immediately throw my kid under the bus and assume they are entirely at fault. It seems possible that the send could be really manipulative (in a really developed and honestly scary kind of way), or that they could be really immature and lashing out at your DD for something that is not pleasant but not bullying (if DD is growing apart from a childhood friend but the friend is not able to process/accept it).

Not sure what I think of my own advice here, but would it be an option to contact DD’s teachers and ask how she interacts with her peers? They may be the most neutral in this situation, even if they miss some things…