Squandered elite education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

You could also have sought out networking events on the campus. They existed in the 2000s while I was there and I am sure recruiting happened when you were there too.

I definitely did. But I had no way to really evaluate one company vs another, and its not like they talk about salary or potential long term career path in concrete income terms.

I don’t understand why you keep making excuses. Just from the crowds of students swarming the presenters you could figure out what was in demand and what was not at these career presentations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

You could also have sought out networking events on the campus. They existed in the 2000s while I was there and I am sure recruiting happened when you were there too.

I definitely did. But I had no way to really evaluate one company vs another, and its not like they talk about salary or potential long term career path in concrete income terms.

I don’t understand why you keep making excuses. Just from the crowds of students swarming the presenters you could figure out what was in demand and what was not at these career presentations.

Not sure what is confusing here, I literally said I SQUANDERED the opportunity in the subject line.

There are a million different things I could have done, I just was in my own little head having a dream of working in my little STEM field and having a quiet house in the suburbs after a days work. No inkling that sort of life requires far more money than I ever could have imagined unless I moved back home. I wasn't interested in making lots of money, I wanted to improve the world in my own little way and life spare but comfortable life (even now I don't want money for a vacation home or fancy cars -- I simply wish my spouse could not work and miss the kids so much and we could afford a modest house with a reasonable commute on my income).

So now I live this life of quiet desperation, and I realize now if I had just cared more about money back in college, I HAD the chance to go work in Finance or Big Tech or what not, if I had just made a few different choices. Hence SQUANDERED. Mid-life sucks... now I know there is no time to really fix those mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

You could also have sought out networking events on the campus. They existed in the 2000s while I was there and I am sure recruiting happened when you were there too.

I definitely did. But I had no way to really evaluate one company vs another, and its not like they talk about salary or potential long term career path in concrete income terms.

I don’t understand why you keep making excuses. Just from the crowds of students swarming the presenters you could figure out what was in demand and what was not at these career presentations.

Not sure what is confusing here, I literally said I SQUANDERED the opportunity in the subject line.

There are a million different things I could have done, I just was in my own little head having a dream of working in my little STEM field and having a quiet house in the suburbs after a days work. No inkling that sort of life requires far more money than I ever could have imagined unless I moved back home. I wasn't interested in making lots of money, I wanted to improve the world in my own little way and life spare but comfortable life (even now I don't want money for a vacation home or fancy cars -- I simply wish my spouse could not work and miss the kids so much and we could afford a modest house with a reasonable commute on my income).

So now I live this life of quiet desperation, and I realize now if I had just cared more about money back in college, I HAD the chance to go work in Finance or Big Tech or what not, if I had just made a few different choices. Hence SQUANDERED. Mid-life sucks... now I know there is no time to really fix those mistakes.

Even doing this requires initiative. Being a biologist still requires that you network, go to career fairs, and connect with alumni. You're just lazy and want excuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

I disagree. Lots of corporate internships are obtained not through family networking, but through cold-applying and OCR.

Also, your first job after graduation doesn't matter that much. I know lots of people who bartended or worked on organic kale farms for a year after graduation but went to grad school and/or are now in high-paying corporate jobs from my Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

You could also have sought out networking events on the campus. They existed in the 2000s while I was there and I am sure recruiting happened when you were there too.

I definitely did. But I had no way to really evaluate one company vs another, and its not like they talk about salary or potential long term career path in concrete income terms.

I don’t understand why you keep making excuses. Just from the crowds of students swarming the presenters you could figure out what was in demand and what was not at these career presentations.

Not sure what is confusing here, I literally said I SQUANDERED the opportunity in the subject line.

There are a million different things I could have done, I just was in my own little head having a dream of working in my little STEM field and having a quiet house in the suburbs after a days work. No inkling that sort of life requires far more money than I ever could have imagined unless I moved back home. I wasn't interested in making lots of money, I wanted to improve the world in my own little way and life spare but comfortable life (even now I don't want money for a vacation home or fancy cars -- I simply wish my spouse could not work and miss the kids so much and we could afford a modest house with a reasonable commute on my income).

So now I live this life of quiet desperation, and I realize now if I had just cared more about money back in college, I HAD the chance to go work in Finance or Big Tech or what not, if I had just made a few different choices. Hence SQUANDERED. Mid-life sucks... now I know there is no time to really fix those mistakes.

Even doing this requires initiative. Being a biologist still requires that you network, go to career fairs, and connect with alumni. You're just lazy and want excuses.

That's hilarious. I wish I had been lazy, I just worked really hard at the wrong things and was too worried about bothering anyone to ask. I would TOTALLY be at peace if I had said, F it, I'm just going to coast, partied in college, and just wanted to move home and work in the same factory my parents had. I thought I was doing the hard work, and that a good life would follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

OP here. I majored in STEM. But a field of STEM famous for low salaries; I loved the science behind it and was prioritized "interesting" and "meaningful" work and an interesting places to live -- without understanding the costs that accompanied such places. A lot of engineering fields outside of CS have higher starting salaries with a BS but plateau very quickly and much lower than the salaries discussed here.

Law/medicine? The prospect of taking out more debt than 4x what parent's house was worth? That was unimaginable. And its a huge risk for LMC students -- what if you get to year 3 of med school and can't complete for whatever reason? It's not like the debt is forgiven...

This is definitively not true. My med school class was filled with LMC kids (disproportionately Asian-American). And "not completing" your MD or JD is just simply not an option for working-class kids. The fact that the idea of quitting med school/law school even crossed your mind shows that you are weak-willed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

I disagree. Lots of corporate internships are obtained not through family networking, but through cold-applying and OCR.

Also, your first job after graduation doesn't matter that much. I know lots of people who bartended or worked on organic kale farms for a year after graduation but went to grad school and/or are now in high-paying corporate jobs from my Ivy.

I know many of those too (ski bums and such) but they all came from wealthy families (which is how the idea of working at a kale farm wouldn't sound ridiculous for a college grad). Sure grad school can reset the clock, and something I started to do but then we had kids and had to quit (no money for tuition it all went to daycare now).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

OP here. I majored in STEM. But a field of STEM famous for low salaries; I loved the science behind it and was prioritized "interesting" and "meaningful" work and an interesting places to live -- without understanding the costs that accompanied such places. A lot of engineering fields outside of CS have higher starting salaries with a BS but plateau very quickly and much lower than the salaries discussed here.

Law/medicine? The prospect of taking out more debt than 4x what parent's house was worth? That was unimaginable. And its a huge risk for LMC students -- what if you get to year 3 of med school and can't complete for whatever reason? It's not like the debt is forgiven...

This is definitively not true. My med school class was filled with LMC kids (disproportionately Asian-American). And "not completing" your MD or JD is just simply not an option for working-class kids. The fact that the idea of quitting med school/law school even crossed your mind shows that you are weak-willed.

Not that I would quit, that I would get sick or even flunk out. Med schools have wash out courses for a reason, and just because you don't want to doesn't mean it cant happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

See, I was really worried about "bothering" people. This definitely has to do with upbringing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

OP here. I majored in STEM. But a field of STEM famous for low salaries; I loved the science behind it and was prioritized "interesting" and "meaningful" work and an interesting places to live -- without understanding the costs that accompanied such places. A lot of engineering fields outside of CS have higher starting salaries with a BS but plateau very quickly and much lower than the salaries discussed here.

Law/medicine? The prospect of taking out more debt than 4x what parent's house was worth? That was unimaginable. And its a huge risk for LMC students -- what if you get to year 3 of med school and can't complete for whatever reason? It's not like the debt is forgiven...

This is definitively not true. My med school class was filled with LMC kids (disproportionately Asian-American). And "not completing" your MD or JD is just simply not an option for working-class kids. The fact that the idea of quitting med school/law school even crossed your mind shows that you are weak-willed.

Not that I would quit, that I would get sick or even flunk out. Med schools have wash out courses for a reason, and just because you don't want to doesn't mean it cant happen.

If you get sick, your student debt would probably be discharged if you file for the disability loophole. And "flunk out" of med school??? That almost never happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

See, I was really worried about "bothering" people. This definitely has to do with upbringing.

Blah blah blah excuses excuses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, I was trying to be somewhat anonymous -- I mean how many Ivy league grads work for Fed contractors But I did miss the question about age, but I graduated 95-99 timeframe. For reference, Glassdoor founded in 2007, and LinkedIn in 2002. My first jobs I mailed in my applications!

PP. Thanks, OP, and I owe you an apology. Thanks for coming back and clarifying. I respect your concerns.

I'm also going to post a thread like this that popped up a while ago. One poster included an analogy that I think may soothe your soul - she does a great job of balancing compassion and accountability. This related to a woman who went into the arts and didn't figure out until middle age that all her peers were trust funders - she was MC. The thread also broadly discusses why some people have more savvy than others in figuring this stuff out (a point also raised here).

Here's how this happens. It's not ultra common, but it does happen, and it's not so simple as "make better choices". Because many of the choices are made before the person has the necessary info, and often they are working on information that is bad or very misleading:

- Larla grows up in rural or remote part of the country. Low cost of living, middle or working class parents who don't struggle a ton to make ends meet because low COL. Larla has pleasant childhood without a lot of class strife thanks to this.

- Larla is very good at school, and opportunities in this area are limited. It's not near a larger city. The area doesn't have a ton of arts, culture, or commerce. Larla very quickly develops interest in leaving area because of these limitations and because they are very successful academically, this starts to feel like a real possibility.

- Larla goes to college far away, a "good school" likely with some or a lot of merit aid. Larla's grades and test scores qualified her for school, but her admission probably has a lot to do with her - background too -- these schools like diversity and being from some remote place stands out.

- Maybe the school is in a big city, but maybe in little college town, but either way, winds up in a student population with people from much more cosmopolitan backgrounds. Some are wealthy, some are UMC, some might be MC or WC but from places with greater diversity (of people and experiences). This means everyone understands a lot more about how the world works than Larla, even the other kids on financial aid and who have to work. Larla is straight up naive.

- Larla makes friends, and her friends educate her a bit about the world. The problem is, they are naive too, because they don't even understand what they know. They explain stuff to Larla, but it overemphasizes the fairness of the system. They gloss over stuff like the value of family connections or the fact that they are from families that really, really support and emphasize higher education (something Larla's family probably doesn't value to the same degree because of very different environments and circumstances). Larla starts to think she's figuring things out, but she's only getting a very small part of the picture.

- Larla makes career choices, decides where to move after school, based on her naive assumptions coupled with a pretty incomplete explanation of the world gleaned from young people who are really still just figuring it out. What Larla could really use at this point is a parent or relative who can say "Whoa, wait -- some of these kids have trust funds. Some of them can live in their aunt's apartment while they intern. Some of them have parents who will will do anything to cover the cost of a graduate degree because it's important to them. You need to make different choices based on your specific situation. How about Philly instead of NYC? How about marketing instead of publishing? Maybe what you really want is to write -- get an ed degree, teach high school English, and write! Or pursue an academic degree but get used to living in midwestern college towns, which are at least cheap."

- So instead, Larla figures this out on her own over the course of a decade or so. It's revealed in fits and starts, and often she only learns a key piece of information after it's too late to do much with it (like that an MFA is treated as required in publishing, but has no actual value in terms of earning, something that should actually be a required release of info before anyone enrolls in an MFA program). She also gets deeper into a career and social circle that will simply reinforce her value system, making it harder and harder to pull herself out. She might contemplate moving to Chicago or Portland or Denver, but her NY friends will say "OMG no, I could never" and she's only 28 and her family doesn't understand her anymore either, so she holds onto those values even though they don't serve her.

It's a sucky thing. Yes, she was naive and stupid and made bad choices. But it's also kind of hard to blame her because she's kind of been thrown to the wolves. Her university probably should have offered her some kind of practical economic education, but that would require being honest about their student body and their funding and the value of their degree, so: no. Same with the MFA. Her friends are self-interested in believing that they earned their way (to a degree they may have, in other ways not). Also, Larla doesn't have a stereotypical hard luck upbringing. She's not from poverty, her parents have steady jobs, she had a nice childhood. The fact that it in no way prepared her for the life she is now leading doesn't concern anyone because she is a [almost certainly white] middle class lady with a fancy college degree. It's just that none of those things are really helping her right now and she'd have to go back in time, or totally upend her entire values system, to change it. It's what she should do, but it's understandable that she is struggling.

I feel really bad for people in this situation. This is why it helps to have savvy parents who get how the world works, why you are lucky to find mentors or honest friends who tell it like it is. It can save you. Some people never get that and they get stuck.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/210/791426.page

Wow, damn, I am Larla! Replace publishing with museum work, and NY with Boston/DC, but that's it.

And I thought I was successful because I have a job in the *high* five figures, even if it's a hefty commute from where I can afford to live to my DC job. That's the sad thing - if it weren't from DCUM, I'd be able to think of my wealthy successful friends as the outliers and me as the norm, but this forum really does have a consistent message that everyone makes six figures with a college degree except morons.

Same here! Does anyone know how to fond others that relate to this is the DC area? Is there like a certain bar they go to or scene/activity or something because I would love to find people that “get it”?

Uh, well, a lot of us live in places like Frederick and Manassas. Maybe Hyattsville and Silver Spring closer in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

See, I was really worried about "bothering" people. This definitely has to do with upbringing.

Blah blah blah excuses excuses

Ok, so learning how to interact with other people (especially older and higher status people) from what your parents view as respectful is an excuse? Cool, culture doesn't matter, we don't need to tell students anything to succeed in careers, it's bootstraps all the way down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this reminds me of Rory Gilmore on Gilmore Girls. She so desperately wanted to go to an Ivy and never really amounted to anything. I think some people want the prestige of the college, but don't think about how to use that to propel them into a high earning career. Most of the people that are from wealthier backgrounds that end up at these schools seem to understand that.

It might also just be the function of actually BELIEVING they were special. The MC people like me who also went to Ivies all did STEM or wound up going to law school, UNLESS they were incredibly talented artists (think, published authors by major companies in college). But no one was like oh journalism, yeah, I'll be the one who turns the world on its head with my writing!

It's all about understanding reality, and also accepting that yes, other people will have a leg up on you, but you have a leg up on so many other people. But you're not entitled to some special fancy cool job that pays well and is super fun. Those don't exist, unless someone else like your parents is paying your way. And if that's the case you're really a glorified volunteer on a vanity project, so I wouldn't feel too bad by comparison to those people.

+100

Ding ding ding. For middle class students, the (comparatively) meritocratic world of STEM/law/medicine is MUCH better than finance or consulting. Even if you're at an Ivy.

/
NP here. This seems so obvious, why don't the "narcissistic blowhards" (as another PP described them) here understand this?

Hah, same poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this resonates for me! It feels like shit that people without guidance or role models can often end up making all of the wrong decisions out of pure class ignorance. It sucks because everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

I don't get it. If you were really working class/middle class, why did you major in English? Pretty much all the non-wealthy students at my Ivy majored in STEM or went to law school or finance.

DP: Because the message that many of us got was simply: “Go to college, get a steady job with benefits.” And no one, anywhere, including at our colleges told us anything that went beyond that. I also think you might be wrong about what “pretty much all the non-wealthy students did”. —and/ or the students you went to school with had access to a lot more information than the students that I went to school with, possibly a decade or more before you.

Let me keep repeating this until you get it: You don’t know what you don’t know.

And if no one goes out of their way to show you, teach, you, and expose you to what you don’t know — you still don’t know.
Nice that all the “non-wealthy “ students that you knew went to law school. That takes time and money and support that many of the “non-wealthy “ students that I went to school with simply did not have.

My counselors all said “follow your passion” and “do what you love and the money will follow”

Major really doesn’t matter anyway. I know a Russian Lit major whose first job was at Goldman. I know many English majors in corporate roles at Disney and Microsoft. The most important things are really internships and those first jobs — it needs to be the right pedigree/path. And most jobs/internships are obtained through networking, so a random MC student won’t have any connections — I literally did not know any professionals except for my pediatrician and dentist and teachers. How would my factory working parents know even an accountant (does H&R Block seasonal worker count)?

If you were MC at Ivy you use your alumni network. I just had a freshman from my Ivy the other write to me asking me about an internship at my company. Now that is impressive.

Yes in 2022 with LinkedIn and alumni databases that is totally a thing. I graduated before any of that existed. Maybe there was a printed directory in the career center and I could have mailed them a letter? That would have felt incredibly intrusive...

There probably was a directory and yes you could have mailed a letter. People appreciate young people taking the initiative.

You could also have sought out networking events on the campus. They existed in the 2000s while I was there and I am sure recruiting happened when you were there too.

I definitely did. But I had no way to really evaluate one company vs another, and its not like they talk about salary or potential long term career path in concrete income terms.

I don’t understand why you keep making excuses. Just from the crowds of students swarming the presenters you could figure out what was in demand and what was not at these career presentations.

Not sure what is confusing here, I literally said I SQUANDERED the opportunity in the subject line.

There are a million different things I could have done, I just was in my own little head having a dream of working in my little STEM field and having a quiet house in the suburbs after a days work. No inkling that sort of life requires far more money than I ever could have imagined unless I moved back home. I wasn't interested in making lots of money, I wanted to improve the world in my own little way and life spare but comfortable life (even now I don't want money for a vacation home or fancy cars -- I simply wish my spouse could not work and miss the kids so much and we could afford a modest house with a reasonable commute on my income).

So now I live this life of quiet desperation, and I realize now if I had just cared more about money back in college, I HAD the chance to go work in Finance or Big Tech or what not, if I had just made a few different choices. Hence SQUANDERED. Mid-life sucks... now I know there is no time to really fix those mistakes.

Even doing this requires initiative. Being a biologist still requires that you network, go to career fairs, and connect with alumni. You're just lazy and want excuses.

OMG. I'm married to and hang out with a lot of biology professors who would be considered moderately successful in their field (i.e. they're tenure track professors running programs, but aren't at Harvard). They have great academic networks and stellar resumes, which is whay it takes in academia today.

None of them break six figures.