For those well-meaning social workers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad you have found a service that you feel really hears you and supports you. Even if the trajectory doesn't change overall, that really means something, OP. You are suffering your own trauma from this.

I'm not using that word lightly. I remember this with my own mother.

And I’m so sorry about your Mom. It’s haunting

[Anonymous]

It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

Thank you. This new social worker and hospice is SO good at putting things in perspective. I was feeling so guilty about having to divide my time and they really set me straight, telling me that my aunt is choosing her own fate, has options now, and won’t take them. It was important to hear that from the professionals, who have experienced this situation over and over.

The only advice I can give people is make sure the hospice you choose is non-profit and takes donations. World of difference. The other one was trying to guilt people into doing their job, asking 80 something year old friends of my aunt to do shiftwork. They were appalled, said they’d be here when they can (and have been visiting) but that’s all they could do. Her neighbor next door is a retired police officer and has been lovely as well. People are less afraid to come around since the switch in hospice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

[Anonymous]

OP, this may be too late for your aunt, but if your elderly parents needed any practical help after you go back home - and you live 3000 miles away - are there any volunteers in their local community who could help with checking in, buying and delivering groceries, etc?

If your parents are members of a church, does the church have volunteers who help vulnerable/ill/elderly people in the community?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this may be too late for your aunt, but if your elderly parents needed any practical help after you go back home - and you live 3000 miles away - are there any volunteers in their local community who could help with checking in, buying and delivering groceries, etc?

If your parents are members of a church, does the church have volunteers who help vulnerable/ill/elderly people in the community?

Thank you. The big benefit in all this is my parents are now ‘scared straight’ and want to move back east. My aunt refused all volunteer help early on. She’s a cantankerous woman in that regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

This. OP, even people in supportive professions deserve to get paid. I understand she did not ask in the most kind and professional manner, but I can assure if your lawyer/doctor/local store is concerned about whether they will be paid for their services, they will ask many questions.

Also, you say your aunt was stubborn. This is on her. She made choices when of sound mind. Nobody can save you from the choices you make while still able. That's great that you helped out. Yes, it's horribly painful to watch people make poor choices and even worse when you see them suffering horribly. We deal with this as daughters/sons with aging parents and as we raise teenagers and young adults. It is not OK to blame everyone around them for not rescuing them from their choices. We do what we can and we try to get supports in place and we figure out our boundaries. You are scapegoating. The blame lies with your aunt who made her choices and did not want to think about what the consequences could be as she declined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this may be too late for your aunt, but if your elderly parents needed any practical help after you go back home - and you live 3000 miles away - are there any volunteers in their local community who could help with checking in, buying and delivering groceries, etc?

If your parents are members of a church, does the church have volunteers who help vulnerable/ill/elderly people in the community?

Thank you. The big benefit in all this is my parents are now ‘scared straight’ and want to move back east. My aunt refused all volunteer help early on. She’s a cantankerous woman in that regard.

Op, hop on this! The iron is hot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

This. OP, even people in supportive professions deserve to get paid. I understand she did not ask in the most kind and professional manner, but I can assure if your lawyer/doctor/local store is concerned about whether they will be paid for their services, they will ask many questions.

Also, you say your aunt was stubborn. This is on her. She made choices when of sound mind. Nobody can save you from the choices you make while still able. That's great that you helped out. Yes, it's horribly painful to watch people make poor choices and even worse when you see them suffering horribly. We deal with this as daughters/sons with aging parents and as we raise teenagers and young adults. It is not OK to blame everyone around them for not rescuing them from their choices. We do what we can and we try to get supports in place and we figure out our boundaries. You are scapegoating. The blame lies with your aunt who made her choices and did not want to think about what the consequences could be as she declined.

Anyone who has read this thread and not been clear about their desired arc of life in the later years, balanced by what is tenable (financial and otherwise), should start getting granular as well as compassionate about their wishes. And anyone who has parents or other older people in their lives may want to educate themselves about how government programs work for seniors, especially the key differences between Medicare and Medicaid. Lots of folks here may not need or have parents who will need Medicaid, but many will and being educated in advance is critical in being able to make good decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

This. OP, even people in supportive professions deserve to get paid. I understand she did not ask in the most kind and professional manner, but I can assure if your lawyer/doctor/local store is concerned about whether they will be paid for their services, they will ask many questions.

Also, you say your aunt was stubborn. This is on her. She made choices when of sound mind. Nobody can save you from the choices you make while still able. That's great that you helped out. Yes, it's horribly painful to watch people make poor choices and even worse when you see them suffering horribly. We deal with this as daughters/sons with aging parents and as we raise teenagers and young adults. It is not OK to blame everyone around them for not rescuing them from their choices. We do what we can and we try to get supports in place and we figure out our boundaries. You are scapegoating. The blame lies with your aunt who made her choices and did not want to think about what the consequences could be as she declined.

PP, I agree with everything you wrote, but I also feel that you are criticising OP for 'scapegoating'.

She may well be scapegoating but please put yourself in her shoes. She is the only one in her entire family who left her home and her own family behind and traveled 3,000 miles to look after 3 elderly, ill adults - her parents and her aunt. No one else in her family did, even though she has a sister and more than 30 nieces and nephews.

Of course the situation with her aunt and her parents was going to be very stressful for OP and I understand her lashing out, even if you call it scapegoating.
OP was just trying to get help for her aunt asap. I think we would all do the same thing.
I was once in OP's shoes, albeit in a slightly different scenario. The person involved was also very stubborn and difficult and didn't always make the right choices. I found it very frustrating and stressful and I was lashing out too, mainly at those around me who all had opinions but did absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous]

OP, just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you, your aunt, and your parents, and wishing all of you peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this may be too late for your aunt, but if your elderly parents needed any practical help after you go back home - and you live 3000 miles away - are there any volunteers in their local community who could help with checking in, buying and delivering groceries, etc?

If your parents are members of a church, does the church have volunteers who help vulnerable/ill/elderly people in the community?

They are moving back east too. Thank you