Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

It can't be ruled out. There are lots of kids that get pushed into doing things by their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

It can't be ruled out. There are lots of kids that get pushed into doing things by their parents.

Yes, a similar type of situation occurs sometimes with applicants to the service academies. Some parents really push their kids to apply. One way for a kid to get off the hook is to tell the admissions officer that they don’t want to attend. The academy turns them down and the parents are none the wiser- they get mad at the academy instead of their son or daughter. This is not that uncommon with selective, very high pressure programs like TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Missing as many as it is, is not that many, because very very few qualify in 7th grade for them to miss on the first place. The admissions is too late to catch 8th grade qualifiers I think, though they would still have 7th grade scores for AIME and AMC 8. USAJMO is just a glaring example of how they are not doing a good job of getting top students.

That would best be fixed by re-allowing teacher recc’s. JMO was not a thing at our MS so I wouldn’t want DCs dinged for not doing this.

Only around 300 kids 10th grade and under qualify for the JMO in the entire country. This number includes maybe 50ish middle schoolers and maybe 1 or 2 FCPS middle schoolers. No one would be "dinged" for not qualifying for JMO, but the kids who do qualify are undoubtedly math geniuses who belong at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Missing as many as it is, is not that many, because very very few qualify in 7th grade for them to miss on the first place. The admissions is too late to catch 8th grade qualifiers I think, though they would still have 7th grade scores for AIME and AMC 8. USAJMO is just a glaring example of how they are not doing a good job of getting top students.

That would best be fixed by re-allowing teacher recc’s. JMO was not a thing at our MS so I wouldn’t want DCs dinged for not doing this.

Only around 300 kids 10th grade and under qualify for the JMO in the entire country. This number includes maybe 50ish middle schoolers and maybe 1 or 2 FCPS middle schoolers. No one would be "dinged" for not qualifying for JMO, but the kids who do qualify are undoubtedly math geniuses who belong at TJ.

I tend to agree. I hope they reapply for froshmore admission next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

Close to 20 kids in algebra 2 in 8th grade at our school. I would expect that several of them applied because their parents pushed them to, and some may have put in the application that they do not want to attend. Only about five are in my opinion definitely top students at our school who should get in. If I am understanding the rules the school gets from 6-10 seats automatically. A few more I wouldn't be surprised if they had gotten in. Some others that applied but I would think are more of the prepped type discussed above. I don't know if all of them applied, but I think no one in algebra 2 was accepted from our school. Many of them were accepted to Academies of Loudoun. All the ones who I heard were accepted were Asian students in geometry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

I would expect more of this to happen, once kids realize that it is not necessarily the top students who get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

I would expect more of this to happen, once kids realize that it is not necessarily the top students who get in.

It's never been necessarily the top students who get in - partly because "top students" is extremely subjective. But even so, what would that have anything to do with it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

Absolute genius move by those two kids. They don't want what their parents want, they get their way, AND their parents blame it on "the system"?

Maybe they belonged at TJ after all. That's a finesse right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

I would expect more of this to happen, once kids realize that it is not necessarily the top students who get in.

It's never been necessarily the top students who get in - partly because "top students" is extremely subjective. But even so, what would that have anything to do with it?

A lot of kids who don't want to go figured they weren't getting in anyways. Now they will think they might.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

Absolute genius move by those two kids. They don't want what their parents want, they get their way, AND their parents blame it on "the system"?

Maybe they belonged at TJ after all. That's a finesse right there.

You replying to your own BS, is amusing to read!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you expect from an elite school like TJ? If a kid can not handle the most rigorous STEM courses, he or she should bow out and stay at base schools.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of folks on this forum making the assertion that only students who are able to take TJ’s most advanced classes should be admitted, or that those students should be considered first for admission before considering anyone else.

If FCPS were to do this, it would incentivize parents to - frequently inappropriately - push their children into more and more advanced classes in order to optimize their admissions prospects, and not necessarily because it’s in the kid’s best academic interests.

This point alone should be adequate to bury that pernicious narrative.

I think you missed the point here. We don’t need parents inappropriately pushing their kids.

AAP already provides a method to evaluate the most capable FCPS students and is available to all through multiple identification approaches.

It doesn’t make sense to select kids at a base school over a center kid who lives in the same neighborhood and is part of the base catchment area. This assumes both show similar baseline stats but one is in advanced math and Level IV.

Just seems silly as the base school kid had the same opportunities, evaluations and as the AAP student. More than likely also live down the street from each other.

What are the opportunities in 7th and 8th grade that are identical between the AAP and base school students? It sounds to me like there's a suggestion here that we should presume students to be either on "TJ" or "non-TJ" tracks from a very early age.

AAP access is available throughout the entirety of elementary school. Not everyone is in pool in 2nd grade. New arrivals to FCPS in 5th grade can be placed into AAP the following year. I think the kid who spent their entire elementary years in FCPS and was not identified but is now somehow equally capable of a level IV student with straight As at a center and in Geometry in 8th grade is an outlier, statistically speaking and is not partaking in the same rigor either. This kids could be neighbors as well with the same SES.

Obviously AAP isnt a requirement, but to ignore this reality does the entire advanced academics program a disservice. Whats funny is that Young Scholars is usually tied to AAP in elementary schools for those that qualify, and YS receive a bump in their admissions, but AAP does not?

AAP is "advanced academics" whereas TH is about "Science and Technology". There are many kids in DC's AAP class that are much stronger in English and Social Studies than in Math and Science. These kids are advanced academically, but not suited for a STEM-focused education. That why in middle school, FCPS offers honors-math and sciences to all students. So that STEM kids who are not "advanced" in English can pursue more rigorous courses in their stronger subjects.

This is true. Thats probably why not everyone who is in AAP applies to TJ. But there are many many AAP students who are also STEM oriented and completing higher level academics to include Math and more rigorous AAP science. This specifically addresses the massive group of non-advanced math students getting in over who FCPS has identified as the most advanced learners in the county.

Those same students also had the same opportunity of AAP. They were not selected/approved in a gate-kept process by the county. Now another gate-kept admissions process in the TJ application, is choosing to overlook the very students they identified as gifted/advanced learners to include the areas of STEM in favor of students the county previously did not select as advanced learners to include areas of STEM.

Its intellectually inconsistent especially given the preferential treatment for young scholars, a sort of AAP complimentary program.

There are two issues with the bolded.

1) The group that you’re disparaging is not in any sense “massive”. It constitutes less than 30% of each incoming class, and in many cases they come from schools where math advancement opportunities are extremely limited relative to FCPS.

2) It’s incorrect to call them “non-advanced”. Algebra 1 in 8th grade, while not as lofty as some of the other opportunities available, is still “advanced” by any definition. That’s why it’s always been a prerequisite for the TJ application.

I’ll follow up by allowing, for the purposes of a civil conversation, that it’s something of a red-flag that the new admissions process is missing as many of the USAJMO qualifiers as it is (I’m taking it as an article of faith that this is happening even though there’s been no proof of it). But I reject the assertion that it should be an automatic qualifier.

It is also always possible that a student who is inexplicably rejected was turned down because they wrote in their essays that they didn’t want to go to TJ. That always exists as an option for students whose parents are pressuring them for something that they don’t want, and the Admissions Office is not permitted to inform the parents that it happened.

Not enough people pay attention to this point. DS (rising sophomore at TJ) told me back when he was applying that two of his friends did this after they left the Student Portrait Sheet testing. Both were Alg2 students in grade 8 but neither wanted to go to TJ, and they apparently used this loophole to get out. Parents to this day blame the new admissions process, when in reality they were rejected because they wrote on the SPS that they had no interest in attending.

The only way you can know what students wrote in their essays is if you work at TJ admissions or some miserable insider who works there shared it with you. You also seem to know who their parents are, how much they pressured their kids, and you heard them blame too? And your DS, if one exists, is also on a life mission to keep track of applicants that left exam early and why, and their rejection outcome?

Your lies and anti-asian resentment bring a chuckle. So keep them coming...

I didn't say they were Asian. My son had friends who were in Alg2 who were both Asian and white, and he didn't tell me who the kids were because he was afraid I'd tell their parents. He simply told me on the ride home from the SPS that two of his friends told him that they wrote that they didn't want to go to TJ and then sat there the rest of the time. And then a few months later, he told me that they didn't get in and that their parents had no idea that they did it, and that they were blaming the new admissions process. No reason for my kid to lie about it or make that up.

Absolute genius move by those two kids. They don't want what their parents want, they get their way, AND their parents blame it on "the system"?

Maybe they belonged at TJ after all. That's a finesse right there.

Imagine if one of those kids who self-sabotaged had an Asra Nomani kind of parent who is going berserk wrongly blaming "equity." Teenagers are single-handedly bringing magnitudes of chaos upon us and costing millions in taxpayer money, lol.

[Anonymous]

“It is clear that Asian-American students are disproportionately harmed by the Fairfax County School Board’s decision to overhaul TJ admissions,” Hon. Claude M Hilton, Senior Judge, United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia wrote. “Currently and in the future, Asian-American applicants are disproportionately deprived of a level playing field in competing for both allocated and unallocated seats.”

Hilton also called the school board’s process for implementing the changes “remarkably rushed and shoddy” with “a noticeable lack of public engagement and transparency.”

Looks like the FCPS board is the problem. Has the FCPS board changed since this finding in 2022?

[Anonymous]

No. This opinion was pretty ruthlessly shredded at the Fourth Circuit.

It came as little surprise, as Judge Hilton remains at the District Court level after 40 years of service on the bench, having been passed over for nomination for a Circuit judgeship literally hundreds of times. His opinion on the matter is not in force.