$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high schoool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Sure, it has nothing to do with intellect, work ethic and a cultural value placed on education. Keep your unintelligent head in the sand and things will never change.

I don't think going to a tutor starting at 5 and not having a childhood is something to honor or imitate.

OK. Then don't. That's your prerogative. But they you aren't allowed to bitch and moan about how others get better test scores, and so more opportunities. Or, for that matter, whine about changing the entrance requirements away from test scores because some groups aren't scoring as well as others.

I don't care they have better test scores. I'm not bitching about their scores. I am bitching about a system that encourages child abuse starting at the age of 5 and then rewards it.

I am fine with the test in general. But don't just take the top scorer take all kids that score within a range or put the kids that score within a range and put them in a lottery.

The pushing is less than the pushing I see from sports parents. Do you support taking all spots on programs like Duke Basketball and Alabama football and just having a lottery for all the kids who are "good enough" at basketball?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

So you think it’s only that they aren’t “willing” to put in the study time? SMH.

No one is pushing for unprepared kids to attend, but the question is why aren’t they more prepared? Beyond just “willingness”.

Unfortunately, like many things in life, the end result is often due to parenting. Why fault Asians for valuing education and are willing to work for what they want? If they are outscoring students of other races, it is because they are better prepared. Good for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

What if they found that kids with lower scores but still high scores were able to keep up pace and actually excelled because they had a more balance life going into the school... no burn out.

Would you support putting all "acceptable" scores in a lottery instead of just taking the top scores.

If not, why?

I don't know this school specifically but I imagine it is similar to TJ here in the DC area. Is that a correct assumption? Most Asian countries have testing to determine whether students get into top high schools and colleges. I would imagine if students who make the cut don't end up doing well in school, they would have to change the admissions criteria. People are uncomfortable with this because it reveals that Asians are good at prepping for tests. It is part of their culture and Asian families work to get their kids into these schools. Maybe a lottery of all passing scores would work but then people would complain about that too. What if the lottery upped the number of Asians currently accepted?

The lottery probably wouldn't change the number accepted. The majority of the "just miss" kids are actually--you guessed it--ASIAN. It's not like there are 75 percent Asians above the Stuy cutoff and then right below it is this HUGE mass of kids of other races.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

I thought they had decided to change the entrance to Stuy to take some from each school. This isn't implemented yet? Or it was only proposed but not finalized?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

What if they found that kids with lower scores but still high scores were able to keep up pace and actually excelled because they had a more balance life going into the school... no burn out.

Would you support putting all "acceptable" scores in a lottery instead of just taking the top scores.

If not, why?

I don't know this school specifically but I imagine it is similar to TJ here in the DC area. Is that a correct assumption? Most Asian countries have testing to determine whether students get into top high schools and colleges. I would imagine if students who make the cut don't end up doing well in school, they would have to change the admissions criteria. People are uncomfortable with this because it reveals that Asians are good at prepping for tests. It is part of their culture and Asian families work to get their kids into these schools. Maybe a lottery of all passing scores would work but then people would complain about that too. What if the lottery upped the number of Asians currently accepted?

I am very familiar with Asian model and it is a complete failure. Gaokao has tons of cheating and corruption.

I'm not concerned with how many Asians get this education, I am concerned about how many kids who could handle the education don't. I actually think if so many people "qualify" they need more of these programs and more Asian children could go to this type of school. In addition, if they knew they only needed a minimum score their parents might allow them to have a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

What if they found that kids with lower scores but still high scores were able to keep up pace and actually excelled because they had a more balance life going into the school... no burn out.

Would you support putting all "acceptable" scores in a lottery instead of just taking the top scores.

If not, why?

I don't know this school specifically but I imagine it is similar to TJ here in the DC area. Is that a correct assumption? Most Asian countries have testing to determine whether students get into top high schools and colleges. I would imagine if students who make the cut don't end up doing well in school, they would have to change the admissions criteria. People are uncomfortable with this because it reveals that Asians are good at prepping for tests. It is part of their culture and Asian families work to get their kids into these schools. Maybe a lottery of all passing scores would work but then people would complain about that too. What if the lottery upped the number of Asians currently accepted?

The lottery probably wouldn't change the number accepted. The majority of the "just miss" kids are actually--you guessed it--ASIAN. It's not like there are 75 percent Asians above the Stuy cutoff and then right below it is this HUGE mass of kids of other races.

+1 You'd still end up with majority Asians.

The way the test works, you rank the specialized schools you want to go to. Because of location and reputation, Stuyvesant will usually get the most top rankings and have the highest cutoffs, followed by Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech. Those two schools are still about 2/3rds Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Sure, it has nothing to do with intellect, work ethic and a cultural value placed on education. Keep your unintelligent head in the sand and things will never change.

I don't think going to a tutor starting at 5 and not having a childhood is something to honor or imitate.

OK. Then don't. That's your prerogative. But they you aren't allowed to bitch and moan about how others get better test scores, and so more opportunities. Or, for that matter, whine about changing the entrance requirements away from test scores because some groups aren't scoring as well as others.

I don't care they have better test scores. I'm not bitching about their scores. I am bitching about a system that encourages child abuse starting at the age of 5 and then rewards it.

I am fine with the test in general. But don't just take the top scorer take all kids that score within a range or put the kids that score within a range and put them in a lottery.

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if you think that making your kid study a lot is child abuse. It may not be the happiest or most carefree childhood, but please, get your head out of the sand, if you're calling this abuse. American parents have a very particular notion of what an ideal childhood should look like, and frankly, this ideal is failing compared to children in other countries. You might want to rethink what children are actually capable of and try harder at instilling a sense of hard work and even adversity in children.

The thing about Asian immigrant parents is that there is an acute understanding of delayed gratification that so many American born families lack. That is why they are willing to work so hard for years at jobs they may be overqualified for in their home countries in order to secure a great education for their children. And this delayed gratification is not just waiting a couple of days of weeks, but years and even decades. The children see this and accept that in order to succeed you have to put off fun so that you can go to a good college, land a good job, and provide a nice life for your kids as adults. Kids are not dummies; they can understand from as young as age five the general attitude that parents have towards work and rewards. And, most importantly, they also adopt this attitude towards life.

My Asian immigrant parents led a hard life, and my childhood was not particularly happy because of all the hours I spent studying, but all three kids went to top colleges and then top graduate programs. We have good jobs, own homes, and have more financial security than our parents could have ever dreamed of. We are grateful for what they have done for us; and my parents, who are now retired, are happy for us and not worried about how their children and grandchildren will fare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

The results are exactly what one would expect in a true meritocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

So you think it’s only that they aren’t “willing” to put in the study time? SMH.

No one is pushing for unprepared kids to attend, but the question is why aren’t they more prepared? Beyond just “willingness”.

Unfortunately, like many things in life, the end result is often due to parenting. Why fault Asians for valuing education and are willing to work for what they want? If they are outscoring students of other races, it is because they are better prepared. Good for them.

No one is faulting Asians here. They really aren’t even the focus of this story.

[Anonymous]

So one of the schools covered by the test that is easier to get into (because it gets fewer #1 rankings and because the yield is low due to sheer transportation issues) is Staten Island Tech. But even SIT is about 50% Asian, which is impressive considering that SI is, as a whole, less Asian than the other parts of the city.

And even then, there are Asian kids from Chinatown who commute THREE HOURS to go there. This girl probably missed the Stuy, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech cutoffs but got into SI. https://www.siths.org/apps/news/show_news.jsp?REC_ID=226088&id=0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So one of the schools covered by the test that is easier to get into (because it gets fewer #1 rankings and because the yield is low due to sheer transportation issues) is Staten Island Tech. But even SIT is about 50% Asian, which is impressive considering that SI is, as a whole, less Asian than the other parts of the city.

And even then, there are Asian kids from Chinatown who commute THREE HOURS to go there. This girl probably missed the Stuy, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech cutoffs but got into SI. https://www.siths.org/apps/news/show_news.jsp?REC_ID=226088&id=0

Poor girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Sure, it has nothing to do with intellect, work ethic and a cultural value placed on education. Keep your unintelligent head in the sand and things will never change.

I don't think going to a tutor starting at 5 and not having a childhood is something to honor or imitate.

OK. Then don't. That's your prerogative. But they you aren't allowed to bitch and moan about how others get better test scores, and so more opportunities. Or, for that matter, whine about changing the entrance requirements away from test scores because some groups aren't scoring as well as others.

+1. You’re an utter imbecile. The school tells you exactly what the entrance requirement is but instead of focusing on having your child adequately prepared you’re faulting other parents for having their children too prepared? When your child doesn’t study for a test and does poorly you blame the kids that studied? You live in an embarrassing world of low achievement, excuses, misdirected blame and a complete lack of willingness to take accountability for your actions and outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Asian-American here who oddly attended both very academic schools and what was known as "a magnet school for athletes." The truth is, test prep and asian parenting are nothing near as insane as sports prep. So if anyone thinks test prep is abusive to five year olds and specialized schools are wrong, they should first look at the travel sports system and elite high school sports programs and dismantle that or turn it into a lottery lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Improve all schools so someone who doesn’t get into the magnet school isn’t disappointed. The magnet school becomes less about access to superior education and rather matching students to their proper level of academic rigor.

No one wins if it’s a zero sum game. It’s disappointing however that this discussion on racial disparity becomes more charged when Asian Americans are the majority. I hope the discourse stays away from “blaming” Asian Americans.

Let me let you in on a little secret. Crappy schools aren't crappy because of the teachers or resources. They are crappy because of the large number of crappy students. If you switched the populations between Langley HS and some SE DC HS and kept everything else about the schools the same. The formerly crappy schools would become top performing.