$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high schoool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freshman acceptance:
7 black
33 Latino
587 Asian
194 white

NYCPS district overall is 67% black/Latino, 15% white, 15% Asian. Stuyvesant High School is comparable in selectivity to TJ, but I suppose a bit more prestigious, with more national prominence. This is a huge story.

What is going on here? How are Asians so wildly overrepresented and black and Latin kids so underprepared in a $24 billion annually system?

Maybe it is because Blacks and Latinos do not care to be in a magnet school? They find success in other fields - own business, music, sports etc - and they do not want their kids to be working insane hours and not have a life.

Why are the Whites not doing as well as Asians? Especially if they are aware of the connection between education and upward mobility?

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

+1. It’s 45% FARMS. So admission is not skewed towards money. Drop the AA race card. It boils down to family support and the value they place on education. In the Asian culture, education is everything, especially for immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

+1. It’s 45% FARMS. So admission is not skewed towards money. Drop the AA race card. It boils down to family support and the value they place on education. In the Asian culture, education is everything, especially for immigrants.

Democrats will only listen to you once you dare vote for someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

Many of the Chinese kids I knew at Stuy were straight up poor by NYC standards. Their parents worked very menial jobs in Chinatown and Flushing. Some worked to help support their families, and many took on tons of responsibility at an early age because their parents knew no English.

My neighbor is Chinese, she was a doctor in China. She qualifies for the MPDU in MoCo because the US does not recognize her degree and she does not work as a doctor.

For every one of those examples, there are more examples of under educated Asian immigrants working low level jobs whose kids do well in school.

Many Asian immigrants see education as a means to get out of poverty for their children (and the rest of the family), so they are heavily invested in their children's education. That's all it is. That's all it comes down to.

If the kids getting into Stuy are from gang ridden neighborhoods with lead paint in the walls and parents with mental illness we need to clone them.

Do you think the 45% low income students, 90% of them who are Asians live in luxury? Or do you perhaps think they also live in old buildings with lead paint on the walls? Also, mental illness is a serious issue in the Asian community. It's just never talked about, and certainly people never seek help for it.

As for gangs, have you never heard of Chinese gangs in NYC?

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-deadly-battle-for-control-over-new-york-s-chinatown

When do the excuses stop? Asian immigrants have gone through racism, desperation, gang violence and extreme poverty just as other groups have.

I am Asian American. I went to a gang infested school and grew up low income. My parents didn't speak English. Like many others, we -- the children - had to translate everything for them.. from school forms to doctors' visits.

Wow. I didn't know any of this, first time hearing about Asian American gangs. However, I am willing to accept that I don't know everything about the challenges poor Asian Americans face growing up in NYC.

The question is, are you willing to accept that other ethnic groups may also face challenges--some of them rooted in longstanding historical oppression--that you don't fully grasp?

Yes, African Americans have faced a lot of discrimination. Guess what? So have Asian Americans. So have Hispanic Americans.

I read recently about how the Japanese American farmers were interned during WWII at the behest of the White American farmers in CA because the Japanese American farmers were becoming more prosperous. I also read about segregation in SF of Asian American students, who were not allowed to attend schools with white kids. Asian Americans weren't allowed to own property; not allowed to become citizens. There was mass lynching of Asians out west.

Sure, African slaves in this country were treated horribly, but Asian and Hispanic Americans too were systemically discriminated against. How many more years have to pass before we use "slavery" as an excuse? How do some African Americans manage to do well in life, like my neighbors who are lawyers, or those 7% of Af. Am. students at Stuy. Of course, we still have discrimination in this country. And like not too long ago, minorities have to be better than white people to prove themselves. But constantly using excuses isn't getting anyone anywhere.

No, it's not easy. We also grew up poor. But at least African American parents know the language. Many of these Asian parents don't even speak the language, and they are also not highly educated. I know mine weren't -- ES level education.

I’m Asian American, please ignore this misguided person. There is nothing to gain from comparing each minorities oppression at the hands of whites. This person is not representing of How Asian Americans thinks. The fault lies in broken systems and discrimination.

Yes, it's a broken system that somehow poor Asian immigrants managed to overcome. What makes you think you are a representation of how Asians think?

Asian immigrants think that you should work hard and get an education to get out of poverty.

You're racist and white people love people like you who fall into the "model minority" narrative. You know, the, I'm Asian American and was poor and I still succeeded, so all you other minorities suck. That's a foolish position and you are being pretty ignorant. You realize Black and Hispanic people face types of systemic discrimination that you don't? That doesn't mean Asian Americans aren't discriminated against and don't face their own oppression, but it's different and you are way out of line.

You'd be better off recognizing the systemic racism that holds all minorities back - in different ways for different minority groups. No one is "making excuses", it's real.

Nah thats BS.

Asians are like Jews. They work hard, network, have a culture of success and have high intelligence.

Both groups came to the US with nothing, were discriminated against, and now are at the top when it comes to income.

I wish Asians were like Jews. Jews are the gold standard.

Asians are apathetic towards politics, power, and persuasion in this country.

Jews learned from the start they had to be politically engaged and look at the benefits.

Asians are a long way from being as effective as Jews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

I'd guess that the home lives of most poor black/Latino kids are pretty different from those of poor kids with Asian immigrant parents. For example, I'd imagine that the level of trauma exposure would be a lot higher in the former.

and why is that, shouldn't we be addressing that instead of saying everything is racist?

The definition of institutional racism is to create an institution that has barriers for 1 race and not others.

?

Are you implying that we select student into an academic institution based on basketball scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

Many of the Chinese kids I knew at Stuy were straight up poor by NYC standards. Their parents worked very menial jobs in Chinatown and Flushing. Some worked to help support their families, and many took on tons of responsibility at an early age because their parents knew no English.

My neighbor is Chinese, she was a doctor in China. She qualifies for the MPDU in MoCo because the US does not recognize her degree and she does not work as a doctor.

For every one of those examples, there are more examples of under educated Asian immigrants working low level jobs whose kids do well in school.

Many Asian immigrants see education as a means to get out of poverty for their children (and the rest of the family), so they are heavily invested in their children's education. That's all it is. That's all it comes down to.

If the kids getting into Stuy are from gang ridden neighborhoods with lead paint in the walls and parents with mental illness we need to clone them.

Do you think the 45% low income students, 90% of them who are Asians live in luxury? Or do you perhaps think they also live in old buildings with lead paint on the walls? Also, mental illness is a serious issue in the Asian community. It's just never talked about, and certainly people never seek help for it.

As for gangs, have you never heard of Chinese gangs in NYC?

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-deadly-battle-for-control-over-new-york-s-chinatown

When do the excuses stop? Asian immigrants have gone through racism, desperation, gang violence and extreme poverty just as other groups have.

I am Asian American. I went to a gang infested school and grew up low income. My parents didn't speak English. Like many others, we -- the children - had to translate everything for them.. from school forms to doctors' visits.

Wow. I didn't know any of this, first time hearing about Asian American gangs. However, I am willing to accept that I don't know everything about the challenges poor Asian Americans face growing up in NYC.

The question is, are you willing to accept that other ethnic groups may also face challenges--some of them rooted in longstanding historical oppression--that you don't fully grasp?

Yes, African Americans have faced a lot of discrimination. Guess what? So have Asian Americans. So have Hispanic Americans.

I read recently about how the Japanese American farmers were interned during WWII at the behest of the White American farmers in CA because the Japanese American farmers were becoming more prosperous. I also read about segregation in SF of Asian American students, who were not allowed to attend schools with white kids. Asian Americans weren't allowed to own property; not allowed to become citizens. There was mass lynching of Asians out west.

Sure, African slaves in this country were treated horribly, but Asian and Hispanic Americans too were systemically discriminated against. How many more years have to pass before we use "slavery" as an excuse? How do some African Americans manage to do well in life, like my neighbors who are lawyers, or those 7% of Af. Am. students at Stuy. Of course, we still have discrimination in this country. And like not too long ago, minorities have to be better than white people to prove themselves. But constantly using excuses isn't getting anyone anywhere.

No, it's not easy. We also grew up poor. But at least African American parents know the language. Many of these Asian parents don't even speak the language, and they are also not highly educated. I know mine weren't -- ES level education.

I’m Asian American, please ignore this misguided person. There is nothing to gain from comparing each minorities oppression at the hands of whites. This person is not representing of How Asian Americans thinks. The fault lies in broken systems and discrimination.

Yes, it's a broken system that somehow poor Asian immigrants managed to overcome. What makes you think you are a representation of how Asians think?

Asian immigrants think that you should work hard and get an education to get out of poverty.

You're racist and white people love people like you who fall into the "model minority" narrative. You know, the, I'm Asian American and was poor and I still succeeded, so all you other minorities suck. That's a foolish position and you are being pretty ignorant. You realize Black and Hispanic people face types of systemic discrimination that you don't? That doesn't mean Asian Americans aren't discriminated against and don't face their own oppression, but it's different and you are way out of line.

You'd be better off recognizing the systemic racism that holds all minorities back - in different ways for different minority groups. No one is "making excuses", it's real.

+1

You sound like an ignorant a$$hole the more you deny it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“This is actually tricky -
Admission to Stuyvesant is determined by a single test avail to all middle school students in NYC.There are no soft criteria-no interviews,no legacy favoritism, no strings to be pulled. It’s all abt test score which determines if you can handle academics.”

- Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC

Maggie Haberman, NYT, quoted Ruhle to say:
“White students generally have more means with which to prep for this test, some doing it for years. Yes it’s a test, no it is not an equal playing field.”

I’m not sure why Maggie used white when Asians are the ones dominating this system.

The simple truth is that Asian relative overperformance demonstrates that “discrimination” is not a significant driver of outcomes on this sort of test. It has always been a very inconvenient truth for those who insist all groups are equally talented, generally ignored because of that inconvenience, and because Asians didn’t seem to want to make a big issue out of it. Now there is a critical mass of Asians who are going to resist getting shafted in the name of diversity. Will be interesting to see how that all works out.

You think it's a level playing field? So it's just pure talent that is being compared by these tests?

um yeah. There are poor and middle class asian kids who are getting in. That throws out race and SES as an excuse

I'd guess that the home lives of most poor black/Latino kids are pretty different from those of poor kids with Asian immigrant parents. For example, I'd imagine that the level of trauma exposure would be a lot higher in the former.

and why is that, shouldn't we be addressing that instead of saying everything is racist?

The definition of institutional racism is to create an institution that has barriers for 1 race and not others.

?

Are you implying that we select student into an academic institution based on basketball scores?

Ignorant, racist scum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high school.

And each of these 7 black kids deserve to be there and are not there because of any false reason like bridging the "achievement gap" through smoke and mirrors as MCPS does. Let's celebrate that.

Clap clap clap clap clap.

The NYT should have interviewed them and their families to find and share best practices and inspiration.

But racism + fake outrage sure sells more newspapers.

This is exactly right....understand what those families did and focus on spreading that. Celebrate their achievement instead of incessantly complaining about the lack of URMs.

You don’t think there is an issue at all?

I think there is obviously a very significant set of issues but solving them starts in the homes of black families.....that’s where every child’s values and behavioral patterns are formed.

And to fix that?

we can't fix it. only they can. we have thrown so much money at the problem with little return. everyone's priorities are different.

I think this is a “problem” that white people are creating. A generation ago sty was majority Jewish, today it’s majority Asian, next it could be majority Latinos or some other group....who knows and who cares. People tell you what they prioritize with their actions. The black community is clearly saying that magnet schools aren’t of interest because they’re not applying in large numbers and those that do aren’t putting in the efoort (presuming they have the intellect) to be admitted. Why are white people insisting that black people should have the same goals and priorities as they do? Many of the great positive role models in the black community are athletes and musical artists.....so why is anybody surprised that those fields are of greater interest to black kids than an intensive stem curriculum?

[Anonymous]

If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

$24 billion NYC public schools only accepted 7 black students (of 895) to top magnet high school.

And each of these 7 black kids deserve to be there and are not there because of any false reason like bridging the "achievement gap" through smoke and mirrors as MCPS does. Let's celebrate that.

Clap clap clap clap clap.

The NYT should have interviewed them and their families to find and share best practices and inspiration.

But racism + fake outrage sure sells more newspapers.

This is exactly right....understand what those families did and focus on spreading that. Celebrate their achievement instead of incessantly complaining about the lack of URMs.

You don’t think there is an issue at all?

I think there is obviously a very significant set of issues but solving them starts in the homes of black families.....that’s where every child’s values and behavioral patterns are formed.

And to fix that?

we can't fix it. only they can. we have thrown so much money at the problem with little return. everyone's priorities are different.

I think this is a “problem” that white people are creating. A generation ago sty was majority Jewish, today it’s majority Asian, next it could be majority Latinos or some other group....who knows and who cares. People tell you what they prioritize with their actions. The black community is clearly saying that magnet schools aren’t of interest because they’re not applying in large numbers and those that do aren’t putting in the efoort (presuming they have the intellect) to be admitted. Why are white people insisting that black people should have the same goals and priorities as they do? Many of the great positive role models in the black community are athletes and musical artists.....so why is anybody surprised that those fields are of greater interest to black kids than an intensive stem curriculum?

The issue is that the black and Hispanic kids who do want to go aren’t testing well. If everyone was well prepared the offer distribution would look closer to the tester distribution.

Black kids: 20% of testers, but only 4% of offers
Hispanic kids: 22% of testers, but 6% of offers
White kids: 18% of testers, 26% of offers
Asian kids: 31% of testers, but 51% of offers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

So you think it’s only that they aren’t “willing” to put in the study time? SMH.

No one is pushing for unprepared kids to attend, but the question is why aren’t they more prepared? Beyond just “willingness”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Sure, it has nothing to do with intellect, work ethic and a cultural value placed on education. Keep your unintelligent head in the sand and things will never change.

I don't think going to a tutor starting at 5 and not having a childhood is something to honor or imitate.

OK. Then don't. That's your prerogative. But they you aren't allowed to bitch and moan about how others get better test scores, and so more opportunities. Or, for that matter, whine about changing the entrance requirements away from test scores because some groups aren't scoring as well as others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

What if they found that kids with lower scores but still high scores were able to keep up pace and actually excelled because they had a more balance life going into the school... no burn out.

Would you support putting all "acceptable" scores in a lottery instead of just taking the top scores.

If not, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test Prep

Sure, it has nothing to do with intellect, work ethic and a cultural value placed on education. Keep your unintelligent head in the sand and things will never change.

I don't think going to a tutor starting at 5 and not having a childhood is something to honor or imitate.

OK. Then don't. That's your prerogative. But they you aren't allowed to bitch and moan about how others get better test scores, and so more opportunities. Or, for that matter, whine about changing the entrance requirements away from test scores because some groups aren't scoring as well as others.

I don't care they have better test scores. I'm not bitching about their scores. I am bitching about a system that encourages child abuse starting at the age of 5 and then rewards it.

I am fine with the test in general. But don't just take the top scorer take all kids that score within a range or put the kids that score within a range and put them in a lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students arn'te willing to put in the study time required to do well on this test, they shouldn't be granted admission to these schools. What would happen when they get there? They won't be able to keep up with the pace of homework, tests, etc that distinguishes these schools from other high schools.

What if they found that kids with lower scores but still high scores were able to keep up pace and actually excelled because they had a more balance life going into the school... no burn out.

Would you support putting all "acceptable" scores in a lottery instead of just taking the top scores.

If not, why?

I don't know this school specifically but I imagine it is similar to TJ here in the DC area. Is that a correct assumption? Most Asian countries have testing to determine whether students get into top high schools and colleges. I would imagine if students who make the cut don't end up doing well in school, they would have to change the admissions criteria. People are uncomfortable with this because it reveals that Asians are good at prepping for tests. It is part of their culture and Asian families work to get their kids into these schools. Maybe a lottery of all passing scores would work but then people would complain about that too. What if the lottery upped the number of Asians currently accepted?