What are folks doing for MS EOTP?

[Anonymous]

What’s the need for separate honors classes rather than just differentiated material and requirements for your student? I’m not interested in the social concerns most of you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s the need for separate honors classes rather than just differentiated material and requirements for your student? I’m not interested in the social concerns most of you have.

For classes such as math or foreign language, it's really hard. Imagine a 6th-grade class where some students are taking math 6, some are in pre-algebra and others are in algebra. Unless you are doing an online curriculum or flipped classroom, I don't think it will work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the need for separate honors classes rather than just differentiated material and requirements for your student? I’m not interested in the social concerns most of you have.

For classes such as math or foreign language, it's really hard. Imagine a 6th-grade class where some students are taking math 6, some are in pre-algebra and others are in algebra. Unless you are doing an online curriculum or flipped classroom, I don't think it will work.

This. My DD functionally has math on a computer with no interaction with a teacher or peers. I doubt anyone thinks that’s ideal.

[Anonymous]

OK I get that for stepwise progressive classes like math. But that's not honors tracking - that's 6th graders in 8th grade algebra. Or Spanish II instead of Spanish I.

[Anonymous]

As a longtime Cluster/SH parent, I can tell you that the introduction of humanities tracking at the school has been a great leap forward for teachers and students alike.

When my oldest started at SH, the high and low-performing students were obviously short-changed in humanities classes in a big way. Teachers could only pretend to serve these kids well. There was already a critical mass of strong humanities students at Hobson, warranting the creation of honors classes, but myopic DCPS policy and a poor leadership got in the way. We had to supplement a good deal to keep our student working at or above grade level, particularly where writing instruction was concerned, and heard reports of disruptive low-performing students acting out in class because they struggled to absorb what was being taught.

My youngest has been in honors humanities classes at Hobson since 6th grade and the difference has been night and day. We no longer need to supplement and in-class behavioral problems are a closed chapter. I find that those who question the need for honors classes in a neighborhood school in DC lack relevant experience.

[Anonymous]

Honors classes are a no brained in almost every public middle school in a big city.

[Anonymous]

No brainer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime Cluster/SH parent, I can tell you that the introduction of humanities tracking at the school has been a great leap forward for teachers and students alike.

When my oldest started at SH, the high and low-performing students were obviously short-changed in humanities classes in a big way. Teachers could only pretend to serve these kids well. There was already a critical mass of strong humanities students at Hobson, warranting the creation of honors classes, but myopic DCPS policy and a poor leadership got in the way. We had to supplement a good deal to keep our student working at or above grade level, particularly where writing instruction was concerned, and heard reports of disruptive low-performing students acting out in class because they struggled to absorb what was being taught.

My youngest has been in honors humanities classes at Hobson since 6th grade and the difference has been night and day. We no longer need to supplement and in-class behavioral problems are a closed chapter. I find that those who question the need for honors classes in a neighborhood school in DC lack relevant experience.

Hey this is a really informative post! I also will admit I am not sure I entirely agree BUT it is factual, informative and definitely intended to be helpful. DCUM could use more posts like this! THANK YOU!

[Anonymous]

Likewise I think if lower performing students can take the classes with added help that’s ok too. We don’t want two systems within one school. This was discussed on KoJo Nnamadi today with the Wilson HS principal and Ward 4 SBoE rep O’Leary.

[Anonymous]

16:09 here, and you're welcome for my post.

Sorry, but lower-performing students taking humanities classes with added help, wonderful as that sounds, isn't a workable solution at Stuart Hobson. We had that the first time around, and my child wasn't challenged, no matter how much help the stragglers were receiving to catch up. We wound up regretting not taking a 5th grade spot at BASIS, although she didn't want to attend.

DC public middle schools fed by elementary programs that socially promote with abandon simply can't serve groups of 6th grade students reading one, two, even three years behind grade level effectively in the same classrooms as groups of students reading one, two, even three years ahead of grade level. Five or six grade levels is too great a span within a single classroom, at least when it's not just a handful of kids at each end of the spectrum.

Without the honors classes for my second advanced learner (more advanced than his older sister) we would have gone private, or moved after striking out in the lottery at both Latin and BASIS for 5th and 6th grades. We got off the BASIS WL into the school year for 6th, but were satisfied at SH, pleased with a 2- minute commute on foot and far better facilities than those BASIS offers (library, stage, gym, fine art and music rooms, playing field etc.), so have remained.

These folks EOTP are staying put for MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Likewise I think if lower performing students can take the classes with added help that’s ok too. We don’t want two systems within one school. This was discussed on KoJo Nnamadi today with the Wilson HS principal and Ward 4 SBoE rep O’Leary.

Two systems in one school is to make a sweeping generalization. Academic tracking is hardly set in stone at SH- there is movement between tracks. You don't want your families of advanced learners to flee to the burbs, charters, or privates in the absence of honors classes at their neighborhood school. You want high and low-achieving kids to mix in special subjects and electives, in hallways, the cafeteria, extra-curriculars etc. if not in their academic classes.

The Wilson HS principal doesn't seem to have grasped that the best can easily become the enemy of the good. Boo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I am a white parent who lives in Brookland. I would prefer to send my kid to our neighborhood MS because of proximity. It would be so much easier. One problem is it doesn't offer the language my kid is currently learning at a charter. The other issue is lack of diversity. My black friends (whose kids are in my kid's class) discouraged me from even checking out Brookland Middle and said they wouldn't send their kids there.

I went to a middle school in another state where there were drive-by shootings near the school periodically and gang issues as well as drugs were present. Yet the school offered honors classes and options for kids of all learning abilities. I was in classes with bright kids, kids and in classes with grade-level and below-grade level kids. SES also varied in all of my classes. I survived and did well.

Why can't DC serve kids of all backgrounds and SES better by offering more options/differentiated instruction in middle school? Wouldn't that be a way to help all kids reach their potential? I don't get it.

Your black friends have more to lose though. Their kids don’t have the safety net of privilege to catch them when they mess up. Their kids will be suspectible to peer pressure that your kids while likely not experience. They’re going to more risk adverse than you.

[Anonymous]

DC can't serve kids of all backgrounds and SES better by offering more differentiated instruction vs. academic tracking at the MS level because there isn't a high SES-low SES achievement gap in this particular city, there's an achievement chasm.

When you've got 6 or 8 kids reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level in a 6th grade ELA class of 25 or 30 students, along with another 6 or 8 kids reading at an 8th or 9th grade level, the class doesn't work well. This is true no matter how hard a skilled teacher might attempt to differentiate. The class tends to become disruptive, because instruction can't be pitched at a level that will engage most of the students.

In our family's experience, a public MS is much better off moving away from pretending that differentiation within the classroom is the answer in the face of a vast achievement gap it didn't create and can't close. What I've seen at SH in the last five years are the tangible benefits of ending the pretense that one school can erase the brutal effects of multi-generational poverty in the District.

As SH turns into a real neighborhood school 40 years after the Cluster was set up, most of the kids' academic needs are now being met. The school is stronger, happier, more orderly and more functional as a result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC can't serve kids of all backgrounds and SES better by offering more differentiated instruction vs. academic tracking at the MS level because there isn't a high SES-low SES achievement gap in this particular city, there's an achievement chasm.

When you've got 6 or 8 kids reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level in a 6th grade ELA class of 25 or 30 students, along with another 6 or 8 kids reading at an 8th or 9th grade level, the class doesn't work well. This is true no matter how hard a skilled teacher might attempt to differentiate. The class tends to become disruptive, because instruction can't be pitched at a level that will engage most of the students.

In our family's experience, a public MS is much better off moving away from pretending that differentiation within the classroom is the answer in the face of a vast achievement gap it didn't create and can't close. What I've seen at SH in the last five years are the tangible benefits of ending the pretense that one school can erase the brutal effects of multi-generational poverty in the District.

As SH turns into a real neighborhood school 40 years after the Cluster was set up, most of the kids' academic needs are now being met. The school is stronger, happier, more orderly and more functional as a result.

Do you know why this common sense solution will never fly across DC

The #1 issue is the achievement gap. By doing tracking guess what happens the achievement gap widens. If you were superintendent what would you do....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC can't serve kids of all backgrounds and SES better by offering more differentiated instruction vs. academic tracking at the MS level because there isn't a high SES-low SES achievement gap in this particular city, there's an achievement chasm.

When you've got 6 or 8 kids reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level in a 6th grade ELA class of 25 or 30 students, along with another 6 or 8 kids reading at an 8th or 9th grade level, the class doesn't work well. This is true no matter how hard a skilled teacher might attempt to differentiate. The class tends to become disruptive, because instruction can't be pitched at a level that will engage most of the students.

In our family's experience, a public MS is much better off moving away from pretending that differentiation within the classroom is the answer in the face of a vast achievement gap it didn't create and can't close. What I've seen at SH in the last five years are the tangible benefits of ending the pretense that one school can erase the brutal effects of multi-generational poverty in the District.

As SH turns into a real neighborhood school 40 years after the Cluster was set up, most of the kids' academic needs are now being met. The school is stronger, happier, more orderly and more functional as a result.

How is this tracking playing out in practice at SH? Are all the "honors" classes filled with all the white kids? Are there any white kids in the "regular" classes? Assuming the answer is no to my second question (and assumption is based on fact that all of the white kids are from the high SES neighborhood surrounding the school, and we all know high SES correlates with better/at a minimum on grade level performance) how do the other parents in the school feel about this? DCPS?