What are folks doing for MS EOTP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

Not everyone prioritizes 'rigor' for MS.

Why not?

For starters, some know their kids will do just fine in college and life without pushing for them to start Alg or Geometry in 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

can you elaborate more on your comment? So few of us who have experience at more than one school to be able to compare and I'd love to know more about how you do so. helps me know which questions to ask!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

Not everyone prioritizes 'rigor' for MS.

Why not?

For starters, some know their kids will do just fine in college and life without pushing for them to start Alg or Geometry in 6th grade.

This is why I take the advice on this board with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes to MS and HS. Good for PK-ES but pretty irrelevant for MS and HS. I doubt if the majority even knows what rigor is or looks like. So all this "we want rigor" is basically lip service for most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, political leaders only care about getting themselves elected/re-elected. Witness Frazier O'Leary who campaigned all over Ward 4 promising that he really cared about Ward 4 schools - he now says he supports keeping Shepherd and Lafayette in Deal Wilson feeder pattern because he's most concerned about the million dollar property values in these neighborhoods. Ditto useless Brandon Todd. What they are actually saying is we don't give an eff about New North/McFarland or Roosevelt/Coolidge and SP and the Gold Coast are the only residents we really care about, wither Brightwood, Takoma, Manor Park, etc. We need to elect real leadership in Ward 4 to improve Ward 4 MS.

The new middle school plan A shouldn't be relying on Shepherd or Lafayette. Even if the feeder change most families will not send their kids to New North. What is 20 students from Shepherd going to do to change the new school. Be realistic. You just want Shepherd kicked out because you are not part of the feeder. You don't really believe that the "Strong cohort" you keep talking about will come from Shepherd, do you? If Shepherd is your plan A you will fail. I am all for improving the middle school around but there should be a better plan than hoping that Shepherd parents will send their kids to this untested MS. We will move if needed.

Then, move. Many IB families zoned for Shepherd don’t send their kids to Shepherd, which is why your school is not at capacity. By your flawed logic, Shepherd is doing something wrong...I haven’t used the term “strong cohort.” Some families in IB for Lafayette and Shepherd would leave, some do already. Others would over time help build New North. Just like Bancroft will likely help build a better MacFarland. Again, your classism and colorism/racism bears examination.

Sorry if I missed this but what does colorism have to do with anything? Are light skinned black folks the only ones attending Shepherd and living in SP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

Not everyone prioritizes 'rigor' for MS.

Why not?

For starters, some know their kids will do just fine in college and life without pushing for them to start Alg or Geometry in 6th grade.

This is why I take the advice on this board with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes to MS and HS. Good for PK-ES but pretty irrelevant for MS and HS. I doubt if the majority even knows what rigor is or looks like. So all this "we want rigor" is basically lip service for most.

plus most of the people commenting have kids in elementary school only. Agree most people have no idea what they are talking about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

I feel like not just DCPS insists, half of this board also insists.

Sorry to post again but bears repeating. What is the #1 goal of DCPS closing the achievement gap. Getting more high SES people in the system expands the achievement gap which is counter to the goal of DCPS.

MS parents don't really care the achievement gap. MS is where academics become extremely important and non-negotiable for parents that really care. DCPS is more of a social program than school system. No one can answer why DC may be the only school system in the country without magnet program or component? The fall back is racial dynamics. Meanwhile, most MC\UMC African-American families chose private schools versus chancing a subpar education for their kids. If DCPS had any type of leadership, I'd be trying to lure customers back not ignore them.

oh personally I totally agree with you but again the new chancellor is going to be judged on closing the achievement gap. Adding in UMC folks expands the achievement gap and note it's not even racial anymore. The council is demanding that the at-risk gap be closed. No school district in the country has been successful doing this but again one way to fudge the numbers is to make sure non at-risk kids don't advance too quickly and you do that by not having tracking and honors classes.

I'm afraid you're quite right about this. Ooh look - we're closing the achievement gap! Yes by artificially increasing attrition of advanced and UMC students. But, it doesn't help to have research showing that lower performing kids do indeed suffer from tracking (there may be contrary research as well, but it has not moved into the category of common assumptions). I believe that is why also tracking might be unpopular on this board, among some.

I agree with you tracking is part of it too

Most places track for math as early as 4th 5th grade and then high school is all tracking but until high school the core subjects outside of math usually aren't tracked

Most "places" in the country aren't home to the highest-performing white students in any jurisdiction as a group and among the lowest-performing low SES AA students (competing with heavily minority inner cities like Detroit, Philly and Atlanta for the lowest-performing students).

If you don't track in DC in predominantly low SES schools, almost all the UMC parents stay away. It's a no-brainer. So figure out how to thoughtfully track as a lesser-of-the-evils solution. Do it for the simple reason that the poor kids clearly don't gain from the phenomenon of UMC families avoiding their schools altogether.

This is a really good point. I'm not sure that "tracking" is the answer, but if DC schools are going to integrate, the schools have to be prepared to meet the academic needs of all students.

I truly wish folks wouldn't comment on things they know nothing about. Detroit has had a strong magnet and GT program for decades. I went to a GT school in Detroit from 3rd grade and it rivaled some of the D.C. privates in offerings. I took computer science, art, and algebra in 7th grade. I would wholeheartedly send my kids to a similar school if it was available to EOTP parents.

[Anonymous]

To answer the OP's original question: we moved to MD.

While it would be great to win a spot in the lottery at a Deal-feeder or a handful of good charters we repeatedly didn't. Nor could we afford to move to those zones right away or justify the cost of a temporary move to one without substantially compromising our standard of living: and for what...a DC zip code?

We believe in the idea of strong neighborhood schools and sent our child to ours in DC for 4 years. It worked well, until it didn't, and though it is heartbreaking and embarrassing to pull out for greener and more affluent pastures, our child is not an experiment, so we did. We are sad about the entire situation but 3 years later we do not regret it.

DCPS will never solve its issues until it or the city or our country is able to take care of peoples' basic needs before, or in tandem with, educational priorities. This problem is about so much more than education, and it is not fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

Not everyone prioritizes 'rigor' for MS.

Why not?

For starters, some know their kids will do just fine in college and life without pushing for them to start Alg or Geometry in 6th grade.

This is why I take the advice on this board with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes to MS and HS. Good for PK-ES but pretty irrelevant for MS and HS. I doubt if the majority even knows what rigor is or looks like. So all this "we want rigor" is basically lip service for most.

plus most of the people commenting have kids in elementary school only. Agree most people have no idea what they are talking about

Well, I answered the question about rigor above (new learning techniques/social and emotional development). I have current MS and HS kids.

[Anonymous]

New poster here. To answer the original question, we have mid-elementary aged children (3rd & 2nd) and we play the lottery every year to get into a Hardy or Deal feeder. We will try our luck for some MS charters in 5th/6th, and when that all presumably fails we will stay at our not so great (but walkable to us) charter through 8th. We supplement academically already with things like writing, grammar, and extra curriculars, and will continue to do so. We cannot afford private so that’s out of the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

I feel like not just DCPS insists, half of this board also insists.

Sorry to post again but bears repeating. What is the #1 goal of DCPS closing the achievement gap. Getting more high SES people in the system expands the achievement gap which is counter to the goal of DCPS.

MS parents don't really care the achievement gap. MS is where academics become extremely important and non-negotiable for parents that really care. DCPS is more of a social program than school system. No one can answer why DC may be the only school system in the country without magnet program or component? The fall back is racial dynamics. Meanwhile, most MC\UMC African-American families chose private schools versus chancing a subpar education for their kids. If DCPS had any type of leadership, I'd be trying to lure customers back not ignore them.

oh personally I totally agree with you but again the new chancellor is going to be judged on closing the achievement gap. Adding in UMC folks expands the achievement gap and note it's not even racial anymore. The council is demanding that the at-risk gap be closed. No school district in the country has been successful doing this but again one way to fudge the numbers is to make sure non at-risk kids don't advance too quickly and you do that by not having tracking and honors classes.

I'm afraid you're quite right about this. Ooh look - we're closing the achievement gap! Yes by artificially increasing attrition of advanced and UMC students. But, it doesn't help to have research showing that lower performing kids do indeed suffer from tracking (there may be contrary research as well, but it has not moved into the category of common assumptions). I believe that is why also tracking might be unpopular on this board, among some.

I agree with you tracking is part of it too

Most places track for math as early as 4th 5th grade and then high school is all tracking but until high school the core subjects outside of math usually aren't tracked

Most "places" in the country aren't home to the highest-performing white students in any jurisdiction as a group and among the lowest-performing low SES AA students (competing with heavily minority inner cities like Detroit, Philly and Atlanta for the lowest-performing students).

If you don't track in DC in predominantly low SES schools, almost all the UMC parents stay away. It's a no-brainer. So figure out how to thoughtfully track as a lesser-of-the-evils solution. Do it for the simple reason that the poor kids clearly don't gain from the phenomenon of UMC families avoiding their schools altogether.

This is a really good point. I'm not sure that "tracking" is the answer, but if DC schools are going to integrate, the schools have to be prepared to meet the academic needs of all students.

I truly wish folks wouldn't comment on things they know nothing about. Detroit has had a strong magnet and GT program for decades. I went to a GT school in Detroit from 3rd grade and it rivaled some of the D.C. privates in offerings. I took computer science, art, and algebra in 7th grade. I would wholeheartedly send my kids to a similar school if it was available to EOTP parents.

Agreed, the majority of cities have magnet programs. I can't name one other than DC that doesn't. Was in a magnet program in Memphis ages ago. The lack of knowledge is pretty sad.

[Anonymous]

We have gone private but will give the lottery one more shot this year before we give up until HS. We won't move school to school. Researched moving to MD but that doesn't guarantee anything. They are having major issues in MOCO. Curriculum 2.0 is horrible and too much confusion. That's the only county we looked at because of our commutes.

[Anonymous]

For those lotterying into hardy or deal readers. I thought you can only stay through the terminal grade in your school not pyramid! Am I wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's original question: we moved to MD.

While it would be great to win a spot in the lottery at a Deal-feeder or a handful of good charters we repeatedly didn't. Nor could we afford to move to those zones right away or justify the cost of a temporary move to one without substantially compromising our standard of living: and for what...a DC zip code?

We believe in the idea of strong neighborhood schools and sent our child to ours in DC for 4 years. It worked well, until it didn't, and though it is heartbreaking and embarrassing to pull out for greener and more affluent pastures, our child is not an experiment, so we did. We are sad about the entire situation but 3 years later we do not regret it.

DCPS will never solve its issues until it or the city or our country is able to take care of peoples' basic needs before, or in tandem with, educational priorities. This problem is about so much more than education, and it is not fair.

I wish this could be stickied. It's basically what every well meaning family ends up doing if they don't get lucky on the lottery and there is no shame in wanting what is best for your child

Agree the real problem is concentrated poverty, parents not knowing how to parent properly, causing achievement gaps that are too great to close

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

Not everyone prioritizes 'rigor' for MS.

Why not?

Because middle school is where kids start to branch out in their interests, trying new skills and deeper into subject matter, they are shifting learning techniques - more executive functioning and organization/planning. Plus. there are big shifts is social-emotional development. Middle school is a balance between the individual and the material, even more than high school.

The obvious problem is that the economic competition around the world does tend to value rigor in K-8 learning. As an immigrant from the UK, I've been underwhelmed by the DCPS curriculum for academic subjects in the upper elementary grades, particularly ELA. We like our Capitol Hill neighborhood and urban lifestyle, but find that we must supplement extensively to try to keep up with the curriculum in our native country, and the sort of rigor we encountered for our oldest child at an ordinary "state" school in London before we moved to DC. In London, kids who worked behind grade level were not permitting in regular classrooms until they'd caught up, other than for special subjects. They were pulled out for intensive small group work until they caught up. No kidding.

We will leave it to DCPS to celebrate big shifts in socio-emotional development in middle school. BASIS or move for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this has already been discussed, but 2 Rivers and Inspired Teaching are both good options for middle school ETOP.

Not really. No real rigor in either program.

can you elaborate more on your comment? So few of us who have experience at more than one school to be able to compare and I'd love to know more about how you do so. helps me know which questions to ask!

I really doubt this person has personal experience with both middle schools (if any).

What is “real rigor” anyway? How do you know if your child is being challenged? To what extent does that actually matter?