What are folks doing for MS EOTP?

[Anonymous]

I disagree that this common sense solution will never fly in other DCPS middle schools in gentrifying areas. It will fly if parents who want honors classes at other schools are super organized and super pushy in advance of their children attending and after they've enrolled. If I were a future Hardy, Brookland MS or MacFarland parent, I'd attend a SH open house and talk to the principal to learn more about how his honors class system works ( = positive precedent case for you).

I would start by seeking out parents with high-achieving students (both low SES and high SES) considering enrolling in DCPS middle schools EOTP to lobby the school's admins and DCPS higher-ups to fund and staff honors classes. I'd go as far as collecting 5th grade report cards and PARCC score reports for kids working at or above grade level who will enroll in the middle school, to show to admins there. You don't have to accept "no" for an answer when you're told that appropriate "leveled instruction" will be provided. You don't have to settle for this half-baked solution now that SH parents haven't. But will you need to prove to DCPS that a critical mass of students working at or above grade level will enroll, and then has enrolled. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Is there evidence that students below grade level are also better served by this model at S-H? Not that the achievement gap is necessarily closing, but are there fewer kids scoring 1 or 2 on PARCC? It seems to me like that is a key part of making the case for some "tracked" classes in middle school.

[Anonymous]

So, speaking as a future MacFarland parent, I can tell you that there are going to be the numbers of kids in each class (200+) that would allow tiering of classes. And my experience in elementary in its catchment is that the successful kids are NOT all white and NOT all the kids of financially secure parents (THANK GOD!) partly because there are not that many white families in these schools. So when it comes to classes in Math and English and Science or whatever you want to "challenge" kid with or "honors" classes, they would be diverse there. My guess at MacFarland in 5-10 years theses classes would be 50% Hispanic, 20% white, 10% black, 20% Asian, home-Amharic speakers, mixed backgrounds, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC can't serve kids of all backgrounds and SES better by offering more differentiated instruction vs. academic tracking at the MS level because there isn't a high SES-low SES achievement gap in this particular city, there's an achievement chasm.

When you've got 6 or 8 kids reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level in a 6th grade ELA class of 25 or 30 students, along with another 6 or 8 kids reading at an 8th or 9th grade level, the class doesn't work well. This is true no matter how hard a skilled teacher might attempt to differentiate. The class tends to become disruptive, because instruction can't be pitched at a level that will engage most of the students.

In our family's experience, a public MS is much better off moving away from pretending that differentiation within the classroom is the answer in the face of a vast achievement gap it didn't create and can't close. What I've seen at SH in the last five years are the tangible benefits of ending the pretense that one school can erase the brutal effects of multi-generational poverty in the District.

As SH turns into a real neighborhood school 40 years after the Cluster was set up, most of the kids' academic needs are now being met. The school is stronger, happier, more orderly and more functional as a result.

How is this tracking playing out in practice at SH? Are all the "honors" classes filled with all the white kids? Are there any white kids in the "regular" classes? Assuming the answer is no to my second question (and assumption is based on fact that all of the white kids are from the high SES neighborhood surrounding the school, and we all know high SES correlates with better/at a minimum on grade level performance) how do the other parents in the school feel about this? DCPS?

You're really asking, or you're race baiting as a good liberal?

The honors classes are very diverse, and there are white kids in "regular" classes, particularly for math.

Other parents seem to like the more orderly classroom environments the new "leveled" classes have fostered. They also like the fact that high SES families are no longer commonly having kids tutored a lot, and enrolled in advanced middle school classes on-line, to provide appropriate challenge to their high-achieving students, while high-achieving low SES kids generally miss out on real rigor. Parents also like the fact that fewer in-boundary families are running to BASIS, the burbs and privates for MS. Parents still run to Latin when they get in.

Parents also appreciate that the SH principal has established a fair and transparent system for entry to honors classes. Several clear and transparent paths to entry have been established (e.g. 5th grade grades, 6th and 7th grade grades, PARCC scores, outside assessments, portfolio of academic work in a subject). A kid can't just waltz into an honors classes because he or she is white or Asian, or has affluent parents. No, the kid clearly has to be working at or above grade level in a particular subject to gain access.

It's hardly a perfect system, but it's a damn sight better than what we had before at Hobson, rowdy classrooms, stressed-out and burned-out teachers, lots of bored and lost kids sitting in chairs, UMC families commonly paying to add challenge outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that students below grade level are also better served by this model at S-H? Not that the achievement gap is necessarily closing, but are there fewer kids scoring 1 or 2 on PARCC? It seems to me like that is a key part of making the case for some "tracked" classes in middle school.

Please do the research and find the evidence. Kids who can understand what's going on in class are obviously going to succeed in a way that kids won't when the material flies over their heads, as long as the classes are well taught and students can get extra help if they need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC can't serve kids of all backgrounds and SES better by offering more differentiated instruction vs. academic tracking at the MS level because there isn't a high SES-low SES achievement gap in this particular city, there's an achievement chasm.

When you've got 6 or 8 kids reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level in a 6th grade ELA class of 25 or 30 students, along with another 6 or 8 kids reading at an 8th or 9th grade level, the class doesn't work well. This is true no matter how hard a skilled teacher might attempt to differentiate. The class tends to become disruptive, because instruction can't be pitched at a level that will engage most of the students.

In our family's experience, a public MS is much better off moving away from pretending that differentiation within the classroom is the answer in the face of a vast achievement gap it didn't create and can't close. What I've seen at SH in the last five years are the tangible benefits of ending the pretense that one school can erase the brutal effects of multi-generational poverty in the District.

As SH turns into a real neighborhood school 40 years after the Cluster was set up, most of the kids' academic needs are now being met. The school is stronger, happier, more orderly and more functional as a result.

How is this tracking playing out in practice at SH? Are all the "honors" classes filled with all the white kids? Are there any white kids in the "regular" classes? Assuming the answer is no to my second question (and assumption is based on fact that all of the white kids are from the high SES neighborhood surrounding the school, and we all know high SES correlates with better/at a minimum on grade level performance) how do the other parents in the school feel about this? DCPS?

You're really asking, or you're race baiting as a good liberal?

The honors classes are very diverse, and there are white kids in "regular" classes, particularly for math.

Other parents seem to like the more orderly classroom environments the new "leveled" classes have fostered. They also like the fact that high SES families are no longer commonly having kids tutored a lot, and enrolled in advanced middle school classes on-line, to provide appropriate challenge to their high-achieving students, while high-achieving low SES kids generally miss out on real rigor. Parents also like the fact that fewer in-boundary families are running to BASIS, the burbs and privates for MS. Parents still run to Latin when they get in.

Parents also appreciate that the SH principal has established a fair and transparent system for entry to honors classes. Several clear and transparent paths to entry have been established (e.g. 5th grade grades, 6th and 7th grade grades, PARCC scores, outside assessments, portfolio of academic work in a subject). A kid can't just waltz into an honors classes because he or she is white or Asian, or has affluent parents. No, the kid clearly has to be working at or above grade level in a particular subject to gain access.

It's hardly a perfect system, but it's a damn sight better than what we had before at Hobson, rowdy classrooms, stressed-out and burned-out teachers, lots of bored and lost kids sitting in chairs, UMC families commonly paying to add challenge outside of school.

Hard to believe that such a logical and pragmatic system now exists in PC DCPS.

[Anonymous]

NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

I feel like not just DCPS insists, half of this board also insists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

I feel like not just DCPS insists, half of this board also insists.

Sorry to post again but bears repeating. What is the #1 goal of DCPS closing the achievement gap. Getting more high SES people in the system expands the achievement gap which is counter to the goal of DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

I feel like not just DCPS insists, half of this board also insists.

Sorry to post again but bears repeating. What is the #1 goal of DCPS closing the achievement gap. Getting more high SES people in the system expands the achievement gap which is counter to the goal of DCPS.

MS parents don't really care the achievement gap. MS is where academics become extremely important and non-negotiable for parents that really care. DCPS is more of a social program than school system. No one can answer why DC may be the only school system in the country without magnet program or component? The fall back is racial dynamics. Meanwhile, most MC\UMC African-American families chose private schools versus chancing a subpar education for their kids. If DCPS had any type of leadership, I'd be trying to lure customers back not ignore them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

That would make too much sense. Instead of luring with an obvious carrot, DCPS insists that MC/UMC folks enroll in their IB school that doesn't meet their needs and fight to turn it around. Unless of course you're a semi-important DC government employee. Then you just get plopped into a desirable WOTP school of your choice.

I feel like not just DCPS insists, half of this board also insists.

Sorry to post again but bears repeating. What is the #1 goal of DCPS closing the achievement gap. Getting more high SES people in the system expands the achievement gap which is counter to the goal of DCPS.

MS parents don't really care the achievement gap. MS is where academics become extremely important and non-negotiable for parents that really care. DCPS is more of a social program than school system. No one can answer why DC may be the only school system in the country without magnet program or component? The fall back is racial dynamics. Meanwhile, most MC\UMC African-American families chose private schools versus chancing a subpar education for their kids. If DCPS had any type of leadership, I'd be trying to lure customers back not ignore them.

oh personally I totally agree with you but again the new chancellor is going to be judged on closing the achievement gap. Adding in UMC folks expands the achievement gap and note it's not even racial anymore. The council is demanding that the at-risk gap be closed. No school district in the country has been successful doing this but again one way to fudge the numbers is to make sure non at-risk kids don't advance too quickly and you do that by not having tracking and honors classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I don't get why neighborhoods that already have the demographics to support full honors classes, e.g. Brentwood, have to wait for years for the classes to be created. Apparently, the demographics came long before the classes at Stuart Hobson, and advanced math at Hardy (namely 7th grade algebra).

It's very difficult to get high SES parents to enroll without the honors classes. Why not just set them up once neighborhood demographics have shifted?

Because DCPS doesn't budget along those lines?? Serious Q.

I don't think Brentwood has those demographics.

Do you mean Brookland? The part of the Hill IB for Eliot Hine?

Brookland planned on honors classes, but the enrollment was overwhelmingly filled with high-needs students (Title 1 easily). At Eliot-Hine (and Eastern) in response to community feedback/demands, DCPS implemented an IB curriculum.

In both cases, higher SES parents DID NOT ENROLL. DCPS doesn't believe you.

As for SH, the school has always had a cadre of OOB middle class/working class students. That's who the honors classes were created for.

Most high SES families simply don't want to be the first ones to enroll.

[Anonymous]

If DCPS wants to know what neighborhood parents of rising 11-14 year olds are LOOKING FOR in a neighborhood MS, why not survey them in that school's ES feeders to ask?

We've been at Maury for 8 years now. In all that time, I've never been asked to complete a survey related to our in-boundary MS, or MS period.

Meanwhile, my sister, whose kids attend an Arlington ES, tells me that she's asked to complete a MS-related country schools survey every couple years. The make-up of her neighborhood MS is around 90% IB families. Ours, Eliot-Hine, is not even 1/3 in-boundary.

[Anonymous]

DCPS doesn't solicit input from parents in feeders on improving middle schools because they aren't serious about creating a network of neighborhood middle schools, not yet. I see this as changing eventually, under a different mayor.

For now, the focus is on getting Hardy to a state where the school communities cut out of the Deal feeder stay in the system and move on to Wilson.