About to blow my top with my D's university.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My BIL had enough credit to graduate, but never paid overdue library fines so they withheld his diploma. He managed to get away with being employed for a long, long time, but once he ran into other issues with his employer, they used the graduation thing to fire him. Though, he keeps finding jobs fine (mechanical engineer) so either he's pulling the same fast one with other employers or they just don't care.

Are you saying a professional engineering couldn't/wouldn't pay library fees? If I was hiring, I'd pass over that person if I found out just because it's such a stupid thing that could be taken care of so easily. Why is he so petty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, as a parent, OP is entitled to feel upset. But the final buck stops with OP's DD.


OP states that the school dropped the ball because it the school failed to inform her that she doesn't have the enough credits to graduate. However, I feel like the final responsibility lies on DD's shoulder on several fronts, and the school needing to inform DD about the situation should be something that DD should have already known well in advance. DD should have at least:
1.) knew where her standing was in term of the grade for that class. Assuming this is unlike law school where a single exam determines your grade, she should have had an understanding that the possibility of getting a D over the course of the semester.
2.) knew that getting a D means she would not get full credit for that class.
3.) knew that she needed full credit for that class to graduate.
4.) been proactively checking her status.

The college experience, and this situation for sure, is meant to train DD to be on top of her life skills (such as paying taxes, applying for her own credit cards, paying for bills, etc.). Hope DD learns her lesson.

Some colleges have a policy that certain courses can ONLY be repeated one time. So if you fail Business Calculus, for instance, you can retake that course ONE time and only one time. If you wait until the final semester of your senior year to retake the course and then fail it again....not sure what happens. I guess you are required to change majors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BIL had enough credit to graduate, but never paid overdue library fines so they withheld his diploma. He managed to get away with being employed for a long, long time, but once he ran into other issues with his employer, they used the graduation thing to fire him. Though, he keeps finding jobs fine (mechanical engineer) so either he's pulling the same fast one with other employers or they just don't care.

Are you saying a professional engineering couldn't/wouldn't pay library fees? If I was hiring, I'd pass over that person if I found out just because it's such a stupid thing that could be taken care of so easily. Why is he so petty?

In most states, engineers are required to have a professional degree before taking their licensing exams. Your BIL is most likely unlicensed and not an engineer. If he claims otherwise, he could be found guilty of fraud. You can search for his name with the state licensing board.

[Anonymous]

I've had recurrent nightmares about things like this happening to me...

Me too. Always about the physics requirement I put off until the last semester of senior year (and did fine in, but because it was the last thing hanging over my head with regard to getting my degree, somehow anxiety around it has embedded itself in my sub-consciousness).

Given that, like others, I feel like OP's DD either is lying or intentionally had her head in the sand because she knew this was a possibility and did not want to face the facts!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your follow-up post seems to have backed down a bit. I posted previously about online grading, and I hope you realize that your daughter was playing you a bit here - she knew about her grade and almost certainly understood what it meant for her graduation status. And she used the 'decorating my apartment' thing as a ploy to let you discover the news and help her find a way out of it. She probably figured that you'd blame the university first and foremost, a not-altogether-surprising reaction given the fact that you probably paid $200-300k for that piece of paper she's still lacking.

If this was my kid, I'd want her to know that I knew exactly what was up. Because next time she gets into some deep trouble, you want her to do the adult thing and admit her responsibility. And yes, ask for help if she needs that too, directly rather than using some silly gambit to avoid her own culpability.

All it's going to take is one alumni from that college either coming to work at her place of employment or doing business with her company to find out that she is not listed in the alumni network.

Better to be honest about this sort of thing than it would be to found out.

I agree about being honest, but come on. Are people really doing the bolded? That seems ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your follow-up post seems to have backed down a bit. I posted previously about online grading, and I hope you realize that your daughter was playing you a bit here - she knew about her grade and almost certainly understood what it meant for her graduation status. And she used the 'decorating my apartment' thing as a ploy to let you discover the news and help her find a way out of it. She probably figured that you'd blame the university first and foremost, a not-altogether-surprising reaction given the fact that you probably paid $200-300k for that piece of paper she's still lacking.

If this was my kid, I'd want her to know that I knew exactly what was up. Because next time she gets into some deep trouble, you want her to do the adult thing and admit her responsibility. And yes, ask for help if she needs that too, directly rather than using some silly gambit to avoid her own culpability.

All it's going to take is one alumni from that college either coming to work at her place of employment or doing business with her company to find out that she is not listed in the alumni network.

Better to be honest about this sort of thing than it would be to found out.

I agree about being honest, but come on. Are people really doing the bolded? That seems ridiculous.

Sure. Why not? Most schools have alumni directories and such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your follow-up post seems to have backed down a bit. I posted previously about online grading, and I hope you realize that your daughter was playing you a bit here - she knew about her grade and almost certainly understood what it meant for her graduation status. And she used the 'decorating my apartment' thing as a ploy to let you discover the news and help her find a way out of it. She probably figured that you'd blame the university first and foremost, a not-altogether-surprising reaction given the fact that you probably paid $200-300k for that piece of paper she's still lacking.

If this was my kid, I'd want her to know that I knew exactly what was up. Because next time she gets into some deep trouble, you want her to do the adult thing and admit her responsibility. And yes, ask for help if she needs that too, directly rather than using some silly gambit to avoid her own culpability.

All it's going to take is one alumni from that college either coming to work at her place of employment or doing business with her company to find out that she is not listed in the alumni network.

Better to be honest about this sort of thing than it would be to found out.

I agree about being honest, but come on. Are people really doing the bolded? That seems ridiculous.

Sure. Why not? Most schools have alumni directories and such.

She probably won't get caught at her current employer. But the next employer will almost certainly call the university to confirm that she graduated and earned the claimed degree.

Of course she could start her own business and move on with her life and never look back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your follow-up post seems to have backed down a bit. I posted previously about online grading, and I hope you realize that your daughter was playing you a bit here - she knew about her grade and almost certainly understood what it meant for her graduation status. And she used the 'decorating my apartment' thing as a ploy to let you discover the news and help her find a way out of it. She probably figured that you'd blame the university first and foremost, a not-altogether-surprising reaction given the fact that you probably paid $200-300k for that piece of paper she's still lacking.

If this was my kid, I'd want her to know that I knew exactly what was up. Because next time she gets into some deep trouble, you want her to do the adult thing and admit her responsibility. And yes, ask for help if she needs that too, directly rather than using some silly gambit to avoid her own culpability.

All it's going to take is one alumni from that college either coming to work at her place of employment or doing business with her company to find out that she is not listed in the alumni network.

Better to be honest about this sort of thing than it would be to found out.

I agree about being honest, but come on. Are people really doing the bolded? That seems ridiculous.

Sure. Why not? Most schools have alumni directories and such.

She probably won't get caught at her current employer. But the next employer will almost certainly call the university to confirm that she graduated and earned the claimed degree.

Of course she could start her own business and move on with her life and never look back.

As long as she's not claiming to have qualifications (a degree) that she does not actually have when she starts her own business....sure, who would know? Right?

Well, actually, I did not graduate from the college that I attended for 4 years. I have never proclaimed myself to be a graduate, either. People sometimes assume that I did graduate but I set the record straight. I'm not embarrassed by it, it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

I had a similar thing happen to me my senior year when I flunked a requisite class. It was actually an intro level seminar class that was very hard to get into so I'd kept passing it over and even tried to get a waiver since I'd take the senior level seminar class and gotten an A in it and had some extra credits in my major but no luck.

Then I drew a pissed off unpopular professor whose study abroad semester had been cancelled due to a lack of interest - half the class dropped the class after the first week which made things nuttier for the 5 of us left behind but I needed this class so I stuck it out.

But I knew half way through the semester I wasn't going to pass (because the professor told me so at least I got to skip the rest of the semester) so I'm incredulous your DD somehow didn't know she wasn't going to pass - most kids are hyper aware of how they are doing in their classes so I think this is just some embarrassment on DD's part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BIL had enough credit to graduate, but never paid overdue library fines so they withheld his diploma. He managed to get away with being employed for a long, long time, but once he ran into other issues with his employer, they used the graduation thing to fire him. Though, he keeps finding jobs fine (mechanical engineer) so either he's pulling the same fast one with other employers or they just don't care.

Are you saying a professional engineering couldn't/wouldn't pay library fees? If I was hiring, I'd pass over that person if I found out just because it's such a stupid thing that could be taken care of so easily. Why is he so petty?

In most states, engineers are required to have a professional degree before taking their licensing exams. Your BIL is most likely unlicensed and not an engineer. If he claims otherwise, he could be found guilty of fraud. You can search for his name with the state licensing board.

That really depends on the field. Many civil engineers are licensed Professional Engineers, but it's not at all unusual for a mechanical engineer working for a big firm to not be licensed. Not saying it's not a crappy thing for the BIL to have done, but just that not being licensed doesn't mean he's not an engineer or that he's committing fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your follow-up post seems to have backed down a bit. I posted previously about online grading, and I hope you realize that your daughter was playing you a bit here - she knew about her grade and almost certainly understood what it meant for her graduation status. And she used the 'decorating my apartment' thing as a ploy to let you discover the news and help her find a way out of it. She probably figured that you'd blame the university first and foremost, a not-altogether-surprising reaction given the fact that you probably paid $200-300k for that piece of paper she's still lacking.

If this was my kid, I'd want her to know that I knew exactly what was up. Because next time she gets into some deep trouble, you want her to do the adult thing and admit her responsibility. And yes, ask for help if she needs that too, directly rather than using some silly gambit to avoid her own culpability.

All it's going to take is one alumni from that college either coming to work at her place of employment or doing business with her company to find out that she is not listed in the alumni network.

Better to be honest about this sort of thing than it would be to found out.

I agree about being honest, but come on. Are people really doing the bolded? That seems ridiculous.

Sure. Why not? Most schools have alumni directories and such.

She probably won't get caught at her current employer. But the next employer will almost certainly call the university to confirm that she graduated and earned the claimed degree.

Of course she could start her own business and move on with her life and never look back.

Most reasonably professional companies to a pre-employment verification on education claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BIL had enough credit to graduate, but never paid overdue library fines so they withheld his diploma. He managed to get away with being employed for a long, long time, but once he ran into other issues with his employer, they used the graduation thing to fire him. Though, he keeps finding jobs fine (mechanical engineer) so either he's pulling the same fast one with other employers or they just don't care.

Are you saying a professional engineering couldn't/wouldn't pay library fees? If I was hiring, I'd pass over that person if I found out just because it's such a stupid thing that could be taken care of so easily. Why is he so petty?

In most states, engineers are required to have a professional degree before taking their licensing exams. Your BIL is most likely unlicensed and not an engineer. If he claims otherwise, he could be found guilty of fraud. You can search for his name with the state licensing board.

That really depends on the field. Many civil engineers are licensed Professional Engineers, but it's not at all unusual for a mechanical engineer working for a big firm to not be licensed. Not saying it's not a crappy thing for the BIL to have done, but just that not being licensed doesn't mean he's not an engineer or that he's committing fraud.

If he is calling himself an engineer and he has no qualifications, it is a form of fraud. He may be working for an engineering firm but he is not an engineer and cannot call himself that. PM perhaps, or engineering technician, or whatever, but not engineer. I’m an architect and the laws are very strict about who can be called an architect. Having a degree in architecture and working in an architecture firm does not make you an architect or allow you to call yourself an architect. It’s the same for engineers, doctors, lawyers. These are strictly regulated professions. You are not a lawyer if you don’t graduate from law school or pass the bar, even if you work in a law firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP here so thank you for your input. Some of the responses were a little harsh but I can see why you would say I stepped in too deeply and accept that. It was more of a knee jerk reaction and being shocked.

To clarify a few things- my D while not a perfect student is a very solid student, almost all B's all through college taking. very rigorous courseload (economics major) She has reached out to the professor and that will be her first point of. contact to see what if anything can be done. He was known as a very tough grader and apparently this is widely known among students and faculty.

My D is not trying to push this on the school, she has accepted full responsibly for slacking off after graduation to not check her grades, insure proper standing, etc....within a week of graduating she was off to another country to do an internship she had been wanting, she got so. involved doing that, she said it really never crossed her mind. In the meantime she was also applying for jobs and looking to relocate to a new city, she got a great job and moved. She has been working ever since. In starting to decorate her small new apt she asked for her "framed diploma" and this is where this craziness started.

I am not letting her off the hook and have told her how deeply disappointed I am. She knows that and she has accepted her part in this. That said, the school still should have communicated to her right away that this would affect her ability to get her diploma. Even the advisor admitted they failed in this instance. So toady she is supposed to speak to the professor, we will see where that takes her.

No I am not getting on the phone and speaking to anyone. I am going to let her handle it. I am hopeful it will work out and as many of you have stated serve as a valuable life lesson. I guess in sharing this story, its a wake up call to anyone else who might just assume they graduated.

Man, are you gullible, OP. You really believe that 3 month passed without her checking her grades? Got it.

Also, I'm sure that professor, getting ready to teach a new term's worth of classes, is going to be thrilled to go out of his way to help a student who cares so little about his course that (i) she bombed it) and (ii) couldn't be bothered to check on her grades all summer.

Yikes, you people are relentless. Whatever happened to being kind and supportive?

OP you cane to the wrong place for sympathy or any sort of constructive advice. DCUM sure does have a mean streak about it.

[Anonymous]

Good lord, I didn't read over every comment but the redness and downright hostility here tells me there are a. lot of miserable people out there.

She did not murder someone, she goofed and yes it was her fault but so was the schools fault for not notifying them. I think I read the school even admitted that. I thought it was the daughter who asked for the diploma. Mom sounds like most moms would, concerned and upset.

Give the woman a break she just said her husband is recovering from major surgery now she has this stress, she came here to get concrete ideas not to be berated and accused of being a fraud. And how do we know if the D said she was a graduate or not to get her job?

Stop assuming so much people. OP really hope this works out. I am sure your D learned a lesson from this, hope it all calms down soon.

Lesson to everyone- never judge someone else unless you have walked in their shoes and if you haven't consider yourself fortunate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good lord, I didn't read over every comment but the redness and downright hostility here tells me there are a. lot of miserable people out there.

She did not murder someone, she goofed and yes it was her fault but so was the schools fault for not notifying them. I think I read the school even admitted that. I thought it was the daughter who asked for the diploma. Mom sounds like most moms would, concerned and upset.

Give the woman a break she just said her husband is recovering from major surgery now she has this stress, she came here to get concrete ideas not to be berated and accused of being a fraud. And how do we know if the D said she was a graduate or not to get her job?

Stop assuming so much people. OP really hope this works out. I am sure your D learned a lesson from this, hope it all calms down soon.

Lesson to everyone- never judge someone else unless you have walked in their shoes and if you haven't consider yourself fortunate.

How? How is the school's fault for not notifying you? That is the crux of the disagreement here. Zero responsibility to tell her she failed a class. I think it is the OP's blaming of the school that has resulted in what you are calling "hostility."