How Harvard discriminates against Asian Americans in college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its clearly terrible if colleges are grading Asians down on the soft skills bc of bias. Do they have criteria for how they rate things like "positive personality" or other non-academic attributes. It is 100% valid to consider these traits for admissions but they have a process for doing do that isnt lets cut out students we dont like to favor white ppl.

At the same time the argument that the only way for Harvard to have an unbiased admissions is to "considered only academic achievement" is clearly off. The system we have looks beyond academics bc wider world does too (including ever office ive been in).

The only universal metric that all college applicants share is the SAT and ACT. Everything else is subjective including GPA- weighted vs unweighted, some schools are more challenging than others, etc. So why not have cut-off scores for the SAT and ACT? For example, Harvard only considers applicants whose SAT score is 1500 (out of 1600) or higher. After that, Harvard can use other criteria ("soft" skills, ECs, sports, GPA, teacher recs, etc) to select their students. Other schools can choose their own cut-off scores.

The main issue is that Asian students need much higher SAT/ACT scores than white, Hispanic, and black students to be admitted to the same schools. By having a cut-off score, the school would create a baseline for its students using the only metric that is common to all students. It would also ensure that one group isn't held to an unfairly high standard by holding all applicants to the same standard.

No. By relying only on baseline test scores, you encourage students to spend their entire pre-college life studying to take a test at the expense of developing as a person... wait, that’s what happens now and we get a bunch of robots complaining about not getting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a white parent and I have no problem with Harvard and other using less subjective criteria and thus accepting a less diverse class each year. Harvard is right-- it devalues the Harvard experience for everyone else if one or the other group is overrepresented. But the kids who have been unfairly discriminated against based on their race (asians, primarily) have a claim. So go for it--admit only the most qualified kids and see where the institution is in 30 years. People want diversity. The last place I'd ever want to send my kids is TJ.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

NP. It's not an opinion its a fact. These schools are pushing for diversity, in part because the students that attend want diversity. Ask any admissions officer this, or better yet ask your high school-age kids.

[Anonymous]

sounds like Harvard is acting well within the parameters of the Supreme Court law in this area. Toss the lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Harvard gets TJ'd it will lose it's reputation and status at the top.

Instead of having an uber liberal gender studies be-an-academic-for life reputation it will have a productive STEM, go-build-something reputation.

Go build something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, well, well, Here it is right in the early paragraph of the article:

"Asian-Americans scored higher than applicants of any other racial or ethnic group on admissions measures like test scores, grades and extracurricular activities, according to the analysis commissioned by a group that opposes all race-based admissions criteria."

So in order to get more Asians into Harvard this group opposes the use of race as a factor in admissions decisions. That is not the law at the present time, so it will have to be decided by the Supreme Court, but the implication is they have no interest in diversity or equal opportunity for black and Hispanic students. Only themselves.

In order for Harvard to treat people equally, this group opposes race as a factor.

This is clearly a problem and hopefully enough for a judge to rule in favor of Harvard. Amazing that Asians seem to be ok with pushing out blacks and Hispanics in order to increase their chances of admission. No wonder they are rated so low in “positive personality, likability, courage, kindness and being widely respected."

Amazing that some people think working harder = so low in “positive personality, likability, courage, kindness and being widely respected.

Amazing that some people think that being black and not as smart should get you in to an elite academic university. See what I did there.

No, sorry, I don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not the right time for a lawsuit like this given the rising anti immigrant sentiment. This lawsuit will be thrown out as it should.

Seems we should fight back then, no? Are you suggesting people just wait and suffer? A lost generation?

Not going to Harvard = suffering as part of a lost generation?

There are many brilliant students who don’t get into Harvard every year. Their life prospects are still pretty darn bright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a white parent and I have no problem with Harvard and other using less subjective criteria and thus accepting a less diverse class each year. Harvard is right-- it devalues the Harvard experience for everyone else if one or the other group is overrepresented. But the kids who have been unfairly discriminated against based on their race (asians, primarily) have a claim. So go for it--admit only the most qualified kids and see where the institution is in 30 years. People want diversity. The last place I'd ever want to send my kids is TJ.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

NP. It's not an opinion its a fact. These schools are pushing for diversity, in part because the students that attend want diversity. Ask any admissions officer this, or better yet ask your high school-age kids.

+1 As an alumnus I can definitely say that Harvard's diversity is a great asset. The opportunity to meet people from every US State, and nearly every country in the world, from every conceivable background, is a rich learning experience in itself. This is not simply about diversity by race, it's equally about diversity of world cultures. If this is about high test scores and merit in terms of STEM achievement, kids are free to go to MIT or Caltech, which don't use quotas and offer a different, equally rich and prestigious, learning experience and one that, quite frankly, probably tracks to more lucrative careers. But I do think if quotas are in fact used, they should apply equally to whites and asians. Unless a white applicant specifically contributes to diversity in some way (unique talent or home country), there is no justification for a less qualified white applicant taking a more qualified asian candidate's slot. I also think systemic institutionalized racism offers a perfectly legitimate rationale for admitting students of color who might have somewhat lower test scores than white or asian applicants. I'm confident there is a minimum threshold for acceptance tied to the ability to do the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not the right time for a lawsuit like this given the rising anti immigrant sentiment. This lawsuit will be thrown out as it should.

Seems we should fight back then, no? Are you suggesting people just wait and suffer? A lost generation?

Not going to Harvard = suffering as part of a lost generation?

There are many brilliant students who don’t get into Harvard every year. Their life prospects are still pretty darn bright.

A lost generation? haha. If the kiddies are brilliant, creative and driven they will succeed without Harvard. However, if they are robot whose main talent is to take tests well the world will sort them out too

[Anonymous]

Harvard wants to increase their URM students to a point! I agree that they are discriminating against Asians. However, I would argue that Harvard will not decrease the number of whites students below 50%. If that happens wealthy/elite whites will not want to attend and it will lose its status. I don't think that is fair, but that is the reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard wants to increase their URM students to a point! I agree that they are discriminating against Asians. However, I would argue that Harvard will not decrease the number of whites students below 50%. If that happens wealthy/elite whites will not want to attend and it will lose its status. I don't think that is fair, but that is the reality.

They are already below 50%. The last two classes have been majority-minority. You can look this up; indeed Harvard brags about it.
You really could argue that the Asians are proportionally represented, blacks and Hispanics slightly over-represented, and whites are under-represented. Really it's the whites who have a case here based on disparate impact.

[Anonymous]

All I know is that if I ever need brain surgery, I'm looking for an Asian doctor.

[Anonymous]

Asians would like Harvard to be 100% theirs. Not gonna happen

[Anonymous]

All I know is Harvard engages in "racuial balancing" and that is perfectly legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All I know is Harvard engages in "racuial balancing" and that is perfectly legal.

sorry, racial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I know is Harvard engages in "racuial balancing" and that is perfectly legal.

sorry, racial

As a Harvard Alum, I agree that having a balanced class is valuable in the learning and social experience. The kids who came in with only high GPA/SAT scores added absolutely nothing to the experience and environment. I've also talked to a number of my former Asian classmates and none of them support this lawsuit. I don't think they want to be further stereotyped by an influx of high GPA/SAT robots.