How Harvard discriminates against Asian Americans in college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To play devil’s advocate, why shouldn’t we take the admissions office at their word that on balance the Asians American students were lower on “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected”? The assumption here seems to be that obviously the students were wrongly interpreted and discriminated against, but not everyone has all the same qualities. And if Asian American parents disproportoonately are encouraging success in testing, grades, and music, why do we necessarily think they are also disproportionately focusing on kindness, courage, social skills, and leadership?

to play devil's advocate, if a disproportionate number of African American and Hispanic parents don't value education, then why do we necessarily think that those students are getting into elite universities without lowering the threshold, and that they have the same high test scores as Asian American students whose parents disproportionately focus too much on testing, grades, and music... to quote what you said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's a pretty biased summary, but I'll bite.

As a Chinese-American parent, I want my DC to be evaluated as an individual based on his own achievement and characteristics. When you focus on group claims that Asian-Americans are "better" on average because they have higher test scores and grades, then you also might have to accept that the group on average may have personality traits that are "lesser" too. There is a cost to immigrant parents who insist that their children follow a narrow path of grinding at grades and test scores and playing a classical instrument. Often that cost is not developing the ability to "play well with others" which is at the core of empathy, respect, and leadership.

I've met dozens of really smart Asian-American college applicants who could not or did not know how to talk about how to persuade or lead others. And I've met many others who were great at it. The ones who are leaders and have great grades and scores get in to Harvard and other elite schools at many times their representation in the population. As a group, we're still grossly over represented after screening out the followers. As I tell new immigrant parents all the time, there is no gaokao in the US and getting a perfect GPA and SAT score is not sufficient to get into the top colleges.

Indeed, and most Asian Americans know this, hence..

Asian-Americans scored higher than applicants of any other racial or ethnic group on admissions measures like test scores, grades and extracurricular activities,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To play devil’s advocate, why shouldn’t we take the admissions office at their word that on balance the Asians American students were lower on “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected”? The assumption here seems to be that obviously the students were wrongly interpreted and discriminated against, but not everyone has all the same qualities. And if Asian American parents disproportoonately are encouraging success in testing, grades, and music, why do we necessarily think they are also disproportionately focusing on kindness, courage, social skills, and leadership?

to play devil's advocate, if a disproportionate number of African American and Hispanic parents don't value education, then why do we necessarily think that those students are getting into elite universities without lowering the threshold, and that they have the same high test scores as Asian American students whose parents disproportionately focus too much on testing, grades, and music... to quote what you said.

No, African American and Hispanic students do not as a group have the same high test scores as Asians. You can call that “lowering the threshold,” but I call it “test scores are just one element of an application.” Some excellent colleges fit even require test scores. Can you imagine? How else could colleges ever possibly evaluate candidates, right?

[Anonymous]

*don’t* even require test scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's a pretty biased summary, but I'll bite.

As a Chinese-American parent, I want my DC to be evaluated as an individual based on his own achievement and characteristics. When you focus on group claims that Asian-Americans are "better" on average because they have higher test scores and grades, then you also might have to accept that the group on average may have personality traits that are "lesser" too. There is a cost to immigrant parents who insist that their children follow a narrow path of grinding at grades and test scores and playing a classical instrument. Often that cost is not developing the ability to "play well with others" which is at the core of empathy, respect, and leadership.

I've met dozens of really smart Asian-American college applicants who could not or did not know how to talk about how to persuade or lead others. And I've met many others who were great at it. The ones who are leaders and have great grades and scores get in to Harvard and other elite schools at many times their representation in the population. As a group, we're still grossly over represented after screening out the followers. As I tell new immigrant parents all the time, there is no gaokao in the US and getting a perfect GPA and SAT score is not sufficient to get into the top colleges.

This argument is a red herring. Harvard consistently devalues "Asian personal traits" so that they can reduce the number from a possible "46% to approx 18% to 20%. That is clear in the data. That is the problem, not that Aisan Americans are one dimensional. They are looking for ways to reject Asians to keep their numbers low

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To play devil’s advocate, why shouldn’t we take the admissions office at their word that on balance the Asians American students were lower on “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected”? The assumption here seems to be that obviously the students were wrongly interpreted and discriminated against, but not everyone has all the same qualities. And if Asian American parents disproportoonately are encouraging success in testing, grades, and music, why do we necessarily think they are also disproportionately focusing on kindness, courage, social skills, and leadership?

Because Harvard takes lower-scoring students without any evidence that they have better "soft" skills. Therefore, it is plain discrimination.

But thanks for coming back again and playing after your other racist post was deleted!

Sorry, first post. Apparently more people disagree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a pretty biased summary, but I'll bite.

As a Chinese-American parent, I want my DC to be evaluated as an individual based on his own achievement and characteristics. When you focus on group claims that Asian-Americans are "better" on average because they have higher test scores and grades, then you also might have to accept that the group on average may have personality traits that are "lesser" too. There is a cost to immigrant parents who insist that their children follow a narrow path of grinding at grades and test scores and playing a classical instrument. Often that cost is not developing the ability to "play well with others" which is at the core of empathy, respect, and leadership.

I've met dozens of really smart Asian-American college applicants who could not or did not know how to talk about how to persuade or lead others. And I've met many others who were great at it. The ones who are leaders and have great grades and scores get in to Harvard and other elite schools at many times their representation in the population. As a group, we're still grossly over represented after screening out the followers. As I tell new immigrant parents all the time, there is no gaokao in the US and getting a perfect GPA and SAT score is not sufficient to get into the top colleges.

This argument is a red herring. Harvard consistently devalues "Asian personal traits" so that they can reduce the number from a possible "46% to approx 18% to 20%. That is clear in the data. That is the problem, not that Aisan Americans are one dimensional. They are looking for ways to reject Asians to keep their numbers low

But why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poor Harvard. Facing so much push for "inclusiveness" (which, to be fair, is a legitimate goal in shaping an incoming freshman class) they put a thumb on the scale to advantage black and Hispanic applicants. This comes at a cost to white and Asian applicants. The whites take it on the chin and the Asians file a lawsuit.

Exactly. Relentless is the word that comes to mind. Relentless in gaining achievement and to win at any cost.

[Anonymous]

Asians, as a group, score significantly higher on IQ and academic tests. They vastly outnumber us in world population and are highly motivated. They already heavily dominate in high schools based on quantifiable test results. We have to decide.

[Anonymous]

Harvard is a very liberal school, that starting with 2017's class was majority-minority. But the group filing this lawsuit thinks Asians' 22% share of the class shows "discrimination." Privates can do that; they can shape their classes to get a mix of people they think form the best rounded class for their educational purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a pretty biased summary, but I'll bite.

As a Chinese-American parent, I want my DC to be evaluated as an individual based on his own achievement and characteristics. When you focus on group claims that Asian-Americans are "better" on average because they have higher test scores and grades, then you also might have to accept that the group on average may have personality traits that are "lesser" too. There is a cost to immigrant parents who insist that their children follow a narrow path of grinding at grades and test scores and playing a classical instrument. Often that cost is not developing the ability to "play well with others" which is at the core of empathy, respect, and leadership.

I've met dozens of really smart Asian-American college applicants who could not or did not know how to talk about how to persuade or lead others. And I've met many others who were great at it. The ones who are leaders and have great grades and scores get in to Harvard and other elite schools at many times their representation in the population. As a group, we're still grossly over represented after screening out the followers. As I tell new immigrant parents all the time, there is no gaokao in the US and getting a perfect GPA and SAT score is not sufficient to get into the top colleges.

This argument is a red herring. Harvard consistently devalues "Asian personal traits" so that they can reduce the number from a possible "46% to approx 18% to 20%. That is clear in the data. That is the problem, not that Aisan Americans are one dimensional. They are looking for ways to reject Asians to keep their numbers low

But why?

Huh? Because it is a zero sum game and only by rejecting more Whites and Asians, can they get their Black and Hispanic numbers up, even if there are better candidates who can take that spot. And by better I don't mean just "academic", I mean candidates that have both academic and personal traits. Since Harvard cannot change the academic credential numbers of Asian Americans who get very high "Academic" scores, they look for ways to "lower their personality scores" using all kinds of racist observations so that they can justify rejecting these applicants. This opens up those spots for Blacks and Hispanics who are now given "great personal attribute" scores so that Harvard can now justify admitting them.

It is all a shameful racist way to satisfy diversity goals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poor Harvard. Facing so much push for "inclusiveness" (which, to be fair, is a legitimate goal in shaping an incoming freshman class) they put a thumb on the scale to advantage black and Hispanic applicants. This comes at a cost to white and Asian applicants. The whites take it on the chin and the Asians file a lawsuit.

Asian applicants also have higher test scores than white applicants. The disparity isn't as high as Asians vs black/Hispanic students but it's still significant. The emphasis on "soft" skills also benefits white applicants.

[Anonymous]

I went to Harvard met many students with high test scores and high school GPAs. Many of them added absolutely nothing to the overall educational and social experience of the incoming class. I love that Harvard is looking at the "whole student" when making admissions decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor Harvard. Facing so much push for "inclusiveness" (which, to be fair, is a legitimate goal in shaping an incoming freshman class) they put a thumb on the scale to advantage black and Hispanic applicants. This comes at a cost to white and Asian applicants. The whites take it on the chin and the Asians file a lawsuit.

Asian applicants also have higher test scores than white applicants. The disparity isn't as high as Asians vs black/Hispanic students but it's still significant. The emphasis on "soft" skills also benefits white applicants.

Yep. White applicants really have nothing to complain about. Schools will never institute a policy that puts white applicants at a major disadvantage. The numbers will always be high. This is why Asians are always pointing at black/brown people as the villains. Honestly, I don't know why Asians even want to go to Harvard (given their admission policies). I guess it's part of their dream of success in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor Harvard. Facing so much push for "inclusiveness" (which, to be fair, is a legitimate goal in shaping an incoming freshman class) they put a thumb on the scale to advantage black and Hispanic applicants. This comes at a cost to white and Asian applicants. The whites take it on the chin and the Asians file a lawsuit.

Asian applicants also have higher test scores than white applicants. The disparity isn't as high as Asians vs black/Hispanic students but it's still significant. The emphasis on "soft" skills also benefits white applicants.

Yep. White applicants really have nothing to complain about. Schools will never institute a policy that puts white applicants at a major disadvantage. The numbers will always be high. This is why Asians are always pointing at black/brown people as the villains. Honestly, I don't know why Asians even want to go to Harvard (given their admission policies). I guess it's part of their dream of success in America.

...like owning a Lexus and a McMansion.