How Harvard discriminates against Asian Americans in college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollment-applicants.html

Harvard consistently rated Asian-American applicants lower than any other race on personal traits like “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected,” according to an analysis of more than 160,000 student records filed Friday in federal court in Boston by a group representing Asian-American students in a lawsuit against the university.

Harvard’s own researchers cited a bias against Asian-American applicants in a series of internal reports in 2013. But Harvard ignored the findings, the court papers said, and never publicly released them.

On summary sheets, Asian-American applicants were much more likely than other races to be described as “standard strong,” meaning lacking special qualities that would warrant admission, even though they were more academically qualified, the plaintiffs said. They were 25 percent more likely than white applicants to receive that rating. They were also described as “busy and bright” in their admissions files, the plaintiffs said.

Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them

Harvard’s 2013 internal review found that if Harvard considered only academic achievement, the Asian-American share of the class would rise to 43 percent from the actual 19 percent. After accounting for Harvard’s preference for recruited athletes and legacy applicants, the proportion of whites went up, while the share of Asian-Americans fell to 31 percent. Accounting for extracurricular and personal ratings, the share of whites rose again, and Asian-Americans fell to 26 percent.

What brought the Asian-American number down to roughly 18 percent, or about the actual share, was accounting for a category called “demographic,” the study found. This pushed up African-American and Hispanic numbers, while reducing whites and Asian-Americans.

Great journalism and summary. thanks for reading through the court papers so fast and getting it into the Associated Press/ NYTimes.

I suspect more colleges and magnet programs will get the same subpoenas.

Just shameful behavior on the part of Harvard. My oldest is in kindergarten, but I hope that by the time he applies for college, admissions won’t be so discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone read the last paragraph?

"What brought the Asian-American number down to roughly 18 percent, or about the actual share, was accounting for a category called “demographic,” the study found. This pushed up African-American and Hispanic numbers, while reducing whites and Asian-Americans."

This is exactly what's going on in higher education at all the better colleges and universities, especially privates.

If Asians have a case then so do whites.

social justice warriors!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think its clearly terrible if colleges are grading Asians down on the soft skills bc of bias. Do they have criteria for how they rate things like "positive personality" or other non-academic attributes. It is 100% valid to consider these traits for admissions but they have a process for doing do that isnt lets cut out students we dont like to favor white ppl.

At the same time the argument that the only way for Harvard to have an unbiased admissions is to "considered only academic achievement" is clearly off. The system we have looks beyond academics bc wider world does too (including ever office ive been in).

The only universal metric that all college applicants share is the SAT and ACT. Everything else is subjective including GPA- weighted vs unweighted, some schools are more challenging than others, etc. So why not have cut-off scores for the SAT and ACT? For example, Harvard only considers applicants whose SAT score is 1500 (out of 1600) or higher. After that, Harvard can use other criteria ("soft" skills, ECs, sports, GPA, teacher recs, etc) to select their students. Other schools can choose their own cut-off scores.

The main issue is that Asian students need much higher SAT/ACT scores than white, Hispanic, and black students to be admitted to the same schools. By having a cut-off score, the school would create a baseline for its students using the only metric that is common to all students. It would also ensure that one group isn't held to an unfairly high standard by holding all applicants to the same standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Considering race or gender in admissions is NOT OK.

Admissions officers should look at applicants without seeing the names, sex or purported ethnicity of students. If students share info in their personal statements, that's fine because it's their choice.

What % of the admits were each jewish, christian, islamic, other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Harvard gets TJ'd it will lose it's reputation and status at the top.

Instead of having an uber liberal gender studies be-an-academic-for life reputation it will have a productive STEM, go-build-something reputation.

[Anonymous]

The hypocrisy at Harvard is astounding. If for arguments sake, Blacks and Hispanics were scoring extremely well in the tests, they would be screaming for making a choice by academic criteria alone and denounce other fuzzy factors that favored white students.

They are looking for any way, and I truly do mean any effing way ( legal, barely legal, immoral, amoral, discriminatory... anything) to increase URM enrollment.

[Anonymous]

I was reading this article about how Harvard discriminated against Jews in the 1900s. Some of the language used is remarkably similar to the way Asians are described today. Sad that this type of discrimination exists 100 years later (just for a different group.)
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/how-jewish-quotas-began/

One writer in 1910 observed that in colleges there were “two classes, the one, favored according to undergraduate thinking, holding its position by financial ability to have a good time with leisure for carrying off athletic and other showy prizes; the other class in sheer desperation taking the faculty, textbooks, and debating more seriously. Each class runs in the same rut all its life.” Second-generation Jews obviously did not have the economic resources or the social standing to participate in the collegiate “leisure class.” For them a college education was less a mark of status than a vehicle out of the lower class, and this inevitably gave Jews a sense of purpose lacking elsewhere.

Numerous writers during the early 1900’s commented on the outstanding academic record of Jewish students. According to one observer: “At every university and college that I have visited, I have heard ungrudging praise of the exceptional ability of the Jewish, especially of the Russian-Jewish, students.” Even those uneasy about the influx of Jews rarely denied their enterprise as students. One comments begrudgingly: “History is full of examples where one race has displaced another by underliving and overworking.” Indeed, Jewish academic success, and the willingness of Jews to violate the “taboo on scholarship” (as one Yale professor called it), was a source of considerable resentment, and constituted no small part of the “Jewish problem.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The hypocrisy at Harvard is astounding. If for arguments sake, Blacks and Hispanics were scoring extremely well in the tests, they would be screaming for making a choice by academic criteria alone and denounce other fuzzy factors that favored white students.

They are looking for any way, and I truly do mean any effing way ( legal, barely legal, immoral, amoral, discriminatory... anything) to increase URM enrollment.

Oh, that day is coming.. and soon! Here's a group of people whose numbers will grow exponentially. Not only that, they can also claim Affirmative action benefits because of their origin. Let's see how the whites and blacks deal with that situation when it hits.

https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/meet-the-ethnic-group-redefining-immigrant-success-in-the-us/86885

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Harvard gets TJ'd it will lose it's reputation and status at the top.

Instead of having an uber liberal gender studies be-an-academic-for life reputation it will have a productive STEM, go-build-something reputation.

It will turn into a robot factory. It would be a fail.

So California state education system which is over 40% Asian is a robot factory? Next time you need to find a moron, look for a mirror.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Harvard gets TJ'd it will lose it's reputation and status at the top.

Instead of having an uber liberal gender studies be-an-academic-for life reputation it will have a productive STEM, go-build-something reputation. [/quote

Caltech already serves that role. Not reason for Harvard to go that route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Harvard gets TJ'd it will lose it's reputation and status at the top.

Instead of having an uber liberal gender studies be-an-academic-for life reputation it will have a productive STEM, go-build-something reputation.

It will turn into a robot factory. It would be a fail.

What will ultimately cause Harvard to fail is having America's best & brightest go elsewhere. When they go, the money and 'prestige'(for what that's worth) will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a white parent and I have no problem with Harvard and other using less subjective criteria and thus accepting a less diverse class each year. Harvard is right-- it devalues the Harvard experience for everyone else if one or the other group is overrepresented. But the kids who have been unfairly discriminated against based on their race (asians, primarily) have a claim. So go for it--admit only the most qualified kids and see where the institution is in 30 years. People want diversity. The last place I'd ever want to send my kids is TJ.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Hey Harvard, let's subject you to the same nonsense you submit Asian Americans to.

To promote diversity in the distributing of Federal grants and increase inclusiveness, the government will now insist that under privileged Universities who cannot afford the privilege of hiring star faculties or having a fat endowment will now be evaluated holistically. Any over representation by fat pigs like Harvard will need to be corrected do that they don't get a disproportionate share of Grant money.

Please sign the dear colleague letter outline this proposal and send it back asap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was reading this article about how Harvard discriminated against Jews in the 1900s. Some of the language used is remarkably similar to the way Asians are described today. Sad that this type of discrimination exists 100 years later (just for a different group.)
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/how-jewish-quotas-began/

One writer in 1910 observed that in colleges there were “two classes, the one, favored according to undergraduate thinking, holding its position by financial ability to have a good time with leisure for carrying off athletic and other showy prizes; the other class in sheer desperation taking the faculty, textbooks, and debating more seriously. Each class runs in the same rut all its life.” Second-generation Jews obviously did not have the economic resources or the social standing to participate in the collegiate “leisure class.” For them a college education was less a mark of status than a vehicle out of the lower class, and this inevitably gave Jews a sense of purpose lacking elsewhere.

Numerous writers during the early 1900’s commented on the outstanding academic record of Jewish students. According to one observer: “At every university and college that I have visited, I have heard ungrudging praise of the exceptional ability of the Jewish, especially of the Russian-Jewish, students.” Even those uneasy about the influx of Jews rarely denied their enterprise as students. One comments begrudgingly: “History is full of examples where one race has displaced another by underliving and overworking.” Indeed, Jewish academic success, and the willingness of Jews to violate the “taboo on scholarship” (as one Yale professor called it), was a source of considerable resentment, and constituted no small part of the “Jewish problem.”

Interesting read. Also stresses how easy it was to get into Harvard 100 years ago. Yet Harvard still provides huge legacy preferences to children/grandchildren etc of alum.

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all the posts on this thread yet but I think that if we are moving towards a society where schools want their students to mirror the racial make up of America, then schools need to be honest about this. Tell kids what scores, etc they need to get instead of pretending everybody has an equal shot at admission. Because this is what is going on at schools. Asians are compared to Asians, whites are compared to whites, etc. To pretend otherwise is just silly at this point.