CogAT/Pool letter arrived

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s more than one pro nnat poster. R u the only pro cogat poster??

Real life situations:
Boy got a 128 cogat, 108 nnat, 118 WISC and got into aap. Kid thinks he’s brilliant, but he’s just average and WISC confirms this. Would do just fine in general education. Really doesn’t belong in aap. A solid kid with strengths in math but not superior in anything!

Girl got a 155 nnat, 142 cogat, 145 WISC. Kid doesn’t think she’s brilliant. Just wants to do the best she can. Is in aap.

Boy got a 138 nnat, 118 cogat. Needed to appeal. WISC showed add inattentive. GAI 145 fsiq 120 because of low processing speed. In aap.

The best indicator of “needing” aap is the WISC. An average WISC without 2E is not a kid who needs aap. But aap is full of solidly average/above average kids. Only a handful of actual superior or genuis kids.

Your anecdata indicates that the cogat matters much more than the nnat for AAP acceptance. Borderline cogat + low NNAT got in. In pool NNAT + low cogat got rejected and needed to appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then why one needs to take NNAT2? Utter waste of tax payers money!! Everything said here is parents speculation! For every argument there is exactly opposite example where AAP admission is granted!

NNAT is less culturally biased and is intended to detect gifted children who are not native English speakers.

Which means that a high/higher NNAT than Cogat is still in pool.

So, to go back to how the tests are weighted, it ends up being something like this (from what I can gather from the threads):

High NNAT, high Cogat, high GBRS - in pool
High NNAT, low-ish Cogat, high GBRS - in pool
High NNAT, low-ish Cogat, low GBRS - Wisc/Appeal
Low NNAT, HIGH Cogat, high GBRS - likely in pool/appeal
Low NNAT, high cogat, low GBRS - appeal
Low NNAT, low cogat, high GBRS - WISC appeal

In all cases, the "weight" of the test is not mathematical. It's more like a decision tree.

If the child's NNAT is high, the decision is more likely that they will get in. If the child's NNAT is low, the Cogat has to be extremely high to compensate for the low NNAT, And even then, if you have a high cogat and a low GBRS, it raises red flags because it is more likely that the parents prepped.

The NNAT is really to measure intangibles early on in the testing round. The COGAT confirms. The GBRS is not testing but behavior based. This is super important-- the teachers are analyzing if your kid will be able to do the work involved in AAP. So even if your child is shy - if they are not self-starters in individual activities, they will struggle in AAP, and that's why a high GBRS helps. It's not whether or not you kid is smart, it's whether or not your kid can do things on their own.

And for the poster ranting about NNAT and taxpayer dollars: IMHO, having the NNAT is far less costly to our society than having a gifted student fall through the cracks due to losing the birth lottery.

Correct! This is spot on!

+1.

[Anonymous]

CogAT scores arrived via snail mail today in 20170. One day after in pool letter came home from school in backpack/via email from principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. It is the best predictor of academic achievement- not IQ.

Moreso than actual academic achievement tests?

CoGat and NNAT are more like aptitude tests. Achievement tests cover what kid has already learned (in whatever way and over whatever amount of time material was learned). WISC is an IQ test (not the only one, though). WISC is a much more reliable predictor in every respect, a better regarded test, but much more expensive. NNAT and CoGat are relatively cheap. That is why they are used.

[Anonymous]

This is my first child and I am just learning about AAP stuff.

DS has NNAT 138 and COGAT 134, but don't know GBRS yet.

Do you think we need to think about appeals or would we have a pretty good chance of being accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is my first child and I am just learning about AAP stuff.

DS has NNAT 138 and COGAT 134, but don't know GBRS yet.

Do you think we need to think about appeals or would we have a pretty good chance of being accepted?

Unless her GBRS is really low, she should get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is my first child and I am just learning about AAP stuff.

DS has NNAT 138 and COGAT 134, but don't know GBRS yet.

Do you think we need to think about appeals or would we have a pretty good chance of being accepted?

Unless her GBRS is really low, she should get in.

What would be a good GBRS in this case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is my first child and I am just learning about AAP stuff.

DS has NNAT 138 and COGAT 134, but don't know GBRS yet.

Do you think we need to think about appeals or would we have a pretty good chance of being accepted?

Do the optional questionnaire and submit a piece of work/awards to make sure they know you are committed. Meet with your AART and make sure you know what's going on.

[Anonymous]

I was wondering how age factors into CogAT score. For example if someone turned 8 a week before the test, would they be compared to other 8 year olds (and not just other 2nd graders which would include 7 year olds) to arrive at the composite score? In other words would a second grader who turns 8 a week before the test who got the exact same number of questions right as someone who turns 8 a week after the test be expected to receive a lower composite score? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Do the optional questionnaire and submit a piece of work/awards to make sure they know you are committed. Meet with your AART and make sure you know what's going on.

What sort of awards? Don't they have to be academically relevant, and how many would a 2nd grader have, anyway? Mine has 'Outstanding Graduate' awards from martial arts, but what would be the point of submitting those?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how age factors into CogAT score. For example if someone turned 8 a week before the test, would they be compared to other 8 year olds (and not just other 2nd graders which would include 7 year olds) to arrive at the composite score? In other words would a second grader who turns 8 a week before the test who got the exact same number of questions right as someone who turns 8 a week after the test be expected to receive a lower composite score? Thanks.

Age made a bit of a difference for my DS. He has a September birthday so is young-for-grade and the age normed scores were much higher than the local or grade scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do the optional questionnaire and submit a piece of work/awards to make sure they know you are committed. Meet with your AART and make sure you know what's going on.

What sort of awards? Don't they have to be academically relevant, and how many would a 2nd grader have, anyway? Mine has 'Outstanding Graduate' awards from martial arts, but what would be the point of submitting those?

It doesn't make a whole lot of difference overall. But I think it's certainly better than nothing if you add something anything you got.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do the optional questionnaire and submit a piece of work/awards to make sure they know you are committed. Meet with your AART and make sure you know what's going on.

What sort of awards? Don't they have to be academically relevant, and how many would a 2nd grader have, anyway? Mine has 'Outstanding Graduate' awards from martial arts, but what would be the point of submitting those?

It doesn't make a whole lot of difference overall. But I think it's certainly better than nothing if you add something anything you got.

To me, it shows hard work, dedication and commitment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how age factors into CogAT score. For example if someone turned 8 a week before the test, would they be compared to other 8 year olds (and not just other 2nd graders which would include 7 year olds) to arrive at the composite score? In other words would a second grader who turns 8 a week before the test who got the exact same number of questions right as someone who turns 8 a week after the test be expected to receive a lower composite score? Thanks.

Age made a bit of a difference for my DS. He has a September birthday so is young-for-grade and the age normed scores were much higher than the local or grade scores.

Week before versus week after--no. They are not grouping all 7 year olds together and all 8 year olds. If you look at the score report, it says something like the age score compares other children who were (in our case) 7 years and 4 months old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
To me, it shows hard work, dedication and commitment.

I agree, but aren't those irrelevant to whether one's child is gifted?