Girls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lena Dunham has some kind of blind spot for Hannah. She seems to think it's believable that other people would fight over her, happily employ her to work with kids despite horrifically inappropriate behavior, that cute, smart guys (and girls!) would sleep with her and even want a romantic relationship with her....in general, treat her like the charismatic, lovable, upstanding, unentitled person that she is not.

It's an interesting show and I think Lena Dunham is very smart and savvy, but she doesn't seem to get how truly loathsome Hannah is.

I think that Hannah being loathsome is kind of the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lena Dunham has some kind of blind spot for Hannah. She seems to think it's believable that other people would fight over her, happily employ her to work with kids despite horrifically inappropriate behavior, that cute, smart guys (and girls!) would sleep with her and even want a romantic relationship with her....in general, treat her like the charismatic, lovable, upstanding, unentitled person that she is not.

It's an interesting show and I think Lena Dunham is very smart and savvy, but she doesn't seem to get how truly loathsome Hannah is.

I think that Hannah being loathsome is kind of the point.

I used to think this too, but in Lena Dunham's summaries after the episodes, and in the way she writes other characters' attraction to Hannah, it is not evident. Hot young yoga instructors are drawn to her, wealthy and attractive doctors want to spend weekends with her, her friends fight over her, cute, smart, seemingly well adjusted guys want to be with her, her employer forgives her everything and is sad as she walks away. She doesn't have much to offer yet people want her in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't get why Fran was with Hannah. But I don't think that it was evident that he couldn't stand her while they were together. She did some crazy sh!t when they were together, and he objected to some of that, but generally seemed like a nice guy who was invested in the relationship. He let a lot slide. Maybe I'm just not remembering his controlling behavior- I'll have to rewatch his scenes.

When you mention his continuing to argue after the breakup do you mean when they were on the road trip? What she did there would have made a saint see red. They had plans for the entire summer, rented the RV, everything was hunky dory and then an hour down the road she flips out and acts like he is attacking her when he wants to talk to her to figure out what is happening. She begs him to leave and after he does she complains about him deserting her.

I realize that in Lena Dunham's summary afterwards she spun it like Fran was the bad guy in that relationship, but that's just crazy defending crazy. She's too in love with Hannah to acknowledge how horrid she is.

I didn't watch the whole notes talk after that episode, but did catch that and was really surprised that she was saying pretty saying much what Hannah was said Along the lines of, "Hannah realized Fran wasn't really a nice guy." Ummm...because he corrected a kid's grammar an an English assignment?

No, because he wouldn't respect her right to handle her own work as she saw fit. It wasn't his paper to grade or his decision, but he wouldn't accept that even after she explained her reasoning. That is controlling.

And no, not the road trip, the arguing when they returned to her apartment when he was yelling "I'm a nice guy! I never yell! You're making me yell!" and trying to convince her that she'd be sorry for dumping him. That was crazy. Maybe not Hannah-level crazy, but still crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lena Dunham has some kind of blind spot for Hannah. She seems to think it's believable that other people would fight over her, happily employ her to work with kids despite horrifically inappropriate behavior, that cute, smart guys (and girls!) would sleep with her and even want a romantic relationship with her....in general, treat her like the charismatic, lovable, upstanding, unentitled person that she is not.

It's an interesting show and I think Lena Dunham is very smart and savvy, but she doesn't seem to get how truly loathsome Hannah is.

I think that Hannah being loathsome is kind of the point.

I used to think this too, but in Lena Dunham's summaries after the episodes, and in the way she writes other characters' attraction to Hannah, it is not evident. Hot young yoga instructors are drawn to her, wealthy and attractive doctors want to spend weekends with her, her friends fight over her, cute, smart, seemingly well adjusted guys want to be with her, her employer forgives her everything and is sad as she walks away. She doesn't have much to offer yet people want her in their lives.

I think Lena Dunham believes Hannah is "flawed" but has redeeming qualities. I go back and forth on whether I agree with this. I would say deeply flawed is being charitable. You also have to consider the circumstances of all the people "drawn" to her - I took the yoga chick thing as just using Hannah bc she was horny and picked up on Hannah's insecurity. That was very one-sided with the yoga chick trying to force her head down and then crying out of shame or something effed up. Also, the doctor guy was vulnerable, going thru a divorce, right? Then he clearly wanted it to stop but was too nice to kick her out. The principal at the school - that could just be that they were short staffed and he didn't want to hire someone new in the middle of the school year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of comments that Fran was so great. Fran may have been great on the surface, but underneath the nice guy exterior, he never accepted Hannah for who she really is. Can you blame him? No, Hannah is a shitty person. But then why did he stay with someone he couldn't stand, and then even continue arguing with her after the breakup? He just wanted to be in a relationship and be controlling. I actually respected that Hannah realized that, even if the way she went about it was horrible.

Loved this season. More Shosh and less Marni in season 6 would be awesome.

I don't get why Fran was with Hannah. But I don't think that it was evident that he couldn't stand her while they were together. She did some crazy sh!t when they were together, and he objected to some of that, but generally seemed like a nice guy who was invested in the relationship. He let a lot slide. Maybe I'm just not remembering his controlling behavior- I'll have to rewatch his scenes.

When you mention his continuing to argue after the breakup do you mean when they were on the road trip? What she did there would have made a saint see red. They had plans for the entire summer, rented the RV, everything was hunky dory and then an hour down the road she flips out and acts like he is attacking her when he wants to talk to her to figure out what is happening. She begs him to leave and after he does she complains about him deserting her.

I realize that in Lena Dunham's summary afterwards she spun it like Fran was the bad guy in that relationship, but that's just crazy defending crazy. She's too in love with Hannah to acknowledge how horrid she is.

Totally agree. Fran wasn't controlling at all. Except maybe when he wanted to correct Hannah's students' papers. But that was just a little annoying, not what I'd call controlling. He was genuinely a nice guy and it made no sense at all that he would be with someone as self-absorbed as Hannah. I couldn't believe her behavior when she called it off as they set off on their summer road trip. I would have reacted exactly as he did - furious and disgusted.

Where are you guys seeing these after-show summaries? I can't even believe Dunham would try to make Fran out as the bad guy in this scenario when clearly it's Hannah who has deep, deep issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of comments that Fran was so great. Fran may have been great on the surface, but underneath the nice guy exterior, he never accepted Hannah for who she really is. Can you blame him? No, Hannah is a shitty person. But then why did he stay with someone he couldn't stand, and then even continue arguing with her after the breakup? He just wanted to be in a relationship and be controlling. I actually respected that Hannah realized that, even if the way she went about it was horrible.

Loved this season. More Shosh and less Marni in season 6 would be awesome.

I don't get why Fran was with Hannah. But I don't think that it was evident that he couldn't stand her while they were together. She did some crazy sh!t when they were together, and he objected to some of that, but generally seemed like a nice guy who was invested in the relationship. He let a lot slide. Maybe I'm just not remembering his controlling behavior- I'll have to rewatch his scenes.

When you mention his continuing to argue after the breakup do you mean when they were on the road trip? What she did there would have made a saint see red. They had plans for the entire summer, rented the RV, everything was hunky dory and then an hour down the road she flips out and acts like he is attacking her when he wants to talk to her to figure out what is happening. She begs him to leave and after he does she complains about him deserting her.

I realize that in Lena Dunham's summary afterwards she spun it like Fran was the bad guy in that relationship, but that's just crazy defending crazy. She's too in love with Hannah to acknowledge how horrid she is.

Totally agree. Fran wasn't controlling at all. Except maybe when he wanted to correct Hannah's students' papers. But that was just a little annoying, not what I'd call controlling. He was genuinely a nice guy and it made no sense at all that he would be with someone as self-absorbed as Hannah. I couldn't believe her behavior when she called it off as they set off on their summer road trip. I would have reacted exactly as he did - furious and disgusted.

Where are you guys seeing these after-show summaries? I can't even believe Dunham would try to make Fran out as the bad guy in this scenario when clearly it's Hannah who has deep, deep issues.

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