10yo embarrased by hairy legs and wants to shave. i am at a loss.

[Anonymous]

Poster is right about certain cultures--hair removal is basic grooming.

It may not be Patriarchy's view of shaving and may not reflect how even most Americans view of shaving, but I find the leap to referring to this traditional practice as vanity in a derogatory way quite culturally insensitive. In these cultures, it is seen less as enhancing one's appearance and more as presenting a nonoffending appearance to others.

Sort of like a clean shirt instead of a stained one when out in public. Or maybe that's vanity too....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why some parents want to make a social justice stand at the expense of their childs self esteem. Makes me sad.

Teach her to shave, get laser for her 16th/18th birthday.

It's not a social justice stand. It's instilling values in one's child. Part of a parent's job.

Values? Value in being embarrassed by something that is basic grooming? Do you remove hair from your legs, pits, pubic area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Waxing kids? Only the vain moms in DC do this. Maybe NY or LA too. 10 people!

+1

I was playing barbies at 10. Now we have 4th graders waxing, concealer, lip gloss, worried about what other people think of them.

That's cool. I was menstruating and masturbating at ten. Some of us bloom earlier than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

Don't make your daughter fight the patriarchy on your behalf. Help her navigate the elementary and middle school norms emotionally intact, so she can fight the battles she wants to fight once she's old enough to do so.

It's a more extreme case, but it reminds me of the contingent of naked people I saw in a parade in a very lefty, liberal, non-patriarchal place. What troubled me was the fact that some of their elementary-aged kids were marching with them, also naked. Now maybe they really did want to fight norms by parading naked down the street, but maybe they were also feeling coerced by parents who said, "if you choose to wear clothes, you are choosing to adopt the anti-nudist paradigm and anti-nudism-dictated norms."

Did you read my post, or are you trying to stir s***? It would ultimately be her choice to shave or not. The decision just wouldn't happen in a vacuum. She'd be taught where the idea of shaving one's legs (etc.) = good comes from, who profits from people who buy into that idea, what she is actually choosing to do (i.e. bend to patriarchy norms). She would be armed with knowledge, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry, but do you ever re-read your posts? Out loud? They are seriously comical. Is every decision in your family fraught with socio-political implications?

This kind of decision is. Because of what I already explained and I'm not going to repeat. If you want to call it comical, go ahead. We choose to be aware of the implications of our choices, especially major ones. And yes, this is a biggie.

NP here. Look, I'm way left of crunchy, and agree that we need to raise our kids to be aware of this stuff, and understand the framework. I get you. Hell, you and I are probably neighbors. Let's just be honest, though, OK? Our kids are probably going to grow up to be lipstick-wearing McDonalds munching non-tipping corporate raider types who blog about the trauma we put them through over this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

Don't make your daughter fight the patriarchy on your behalf. Help her navigate the elementary and middle school norms emotionally intact, so she can fight the battles she wants to fight once she's old enough to do so.

It's a more extreme case, but it reminds me of the contingent of naked people I saw in a parade in a very lefty, liberal, non-patriarchal place. What troubled me was the fact that some of their elementary-aged kids were marching with them, also naked. Now maybe they really did want to fight norms by parading naked down the street, but maybe they were also feeling coerced by parents who said, "if you choose to wear clothes, you are choosing to adopt the anti-nudist paradigm and anti-nudism-dictated norms."

Did you read my post, or are you trying to stir s***? It would ultimately be her choice to shave or not. The decision just wouldn't happen in a vacuum. She'd be taught where the idea of shaving one's legs (etc.) = good comes from, who profits from people who buy into that idea, what she is actually choosing to do (i.e. bend to patriarchy norms). She would be armed with knowledge, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry, but do you ever re-read your posts? Out loud? They are seriously comical. Is every decision in your family fraught with socio-political implications?

This kind of decision is. Because of what I already explained and I'm not going to repeat. If you want to call it comical, go ahead. We choose to be aware of the implications of our choices, especially major ones. And yes, this is a biggie.

It means something to you...but what about your children? You are going to fight them on something like shaving that may make heir tween years that much more bearable? What about being in their corner?

If you honestly can't comprehend the difference between fighting your children and arming them with knowledge, then you need remedial comprehension classes, and I don't have the time, the energy and the desire to give you any. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why some parents want to make a social justice stand at the expense of their childs self esteem. Makes me sad.

Teach her to shave, get laser for her 16th/18th birthday.

It's not a social justice stand. It's instilling values in one's child. Part of a parent's job.

Values? Value in being embarrassed by something that is basic grooming? Do you remove hair from your legs, pits, pubic area?

No, I don't shave. My children know, in an age appropriate way, why I don't, and why other ladies chose to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a very simple issue. It would be my daughter choosing to adopt the patriarchal paradigm and patriarchy-dictated norms. It would still be her choice to do so, but it wouldn't be happening in a vacuum.

Don't make your daughter fight the patriarchy on your behalf. Help her navigate the elementary and middle school norms emotionally intact, so she can fight the battles she wants to fight once she's old enough to do so.

It's a more extreme case, but it reminds me of the contingent of naked people I saw in a parade in a very lefty, liberal, non-patriarchal place. What troubled me was the fact that some of their elementary-aged kids were marching with them, also naked. Now maybe they really did want to fight norms by parading naked down the street, but maybe they were also feeling coerced by parents who said, "if you choose to wear clothes, you are choosing to adopt the anti-nudist paradigm and anti-nudism-dictated norms."

Did you read my post, or are you trying to stir s***? It would ultimately be her choice to shave or not. The decision just wouldn't happen in a vacuum. She'd be taught where the idea of shaving one's legs (etc.) = good comes from, who profits from people who buy into that idea, what she is actually choosing to do (i.e. bend to patriarchy norms). She would be armed with knowledge, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry, but do you ever re-read your posts? Out loud? They are seriously comical. Is every decision in your family fraught with socio-political implications?

This kind of decision is. Because of what I already explained and I'm not going to repeat. If you want to call it comical, go ahead. We choose to be aware of the implications of our choices, especially major ones. And yes, this is a biggie.

NP here. Look, I'm way left of crunchy, and agree that we need to raise our kids to be aware of this stuff, and understand the framework. I get you. Hell, you and I are probably neighbors. Let's just be honest, though, OK? Our kids are probably going to grow up to be lipstick-wearing McDonalds munching non-tipping corporate raider types who blog about the trauma we put them through over this stuff.

I hope open, calm talks won't traumatize my children. It's not like I'd be yelling at my daughter "You spineless patriarchy-doormat, you!" while shaking a finger in her face.

Anyway, thanks for getting what I mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Waxing kids? Only the vain moms in DC do this. Maybe NY or LA too. 10 people!

+1

I was playing barbies at 10. Now we have 4th graders waxing, concealer, lip gloss, worried about what other people think of them.

+2

First world DC metro problems

Not really. There are plenty of emerging market countries where there would be no question that if the child had too much hair it should be removed. This is considered a basic grooming issue, like brushing one's hair. There would be genuine confusion at the suggestion that this is somehow an issue of either vanity or morality.

a 10yr old waxing/shaving is the same as her brushing her hair. Um, no. Not even close. It is for vanity and vanity only.

What about a 14-year-old shaving? An 18-year-old? A 28-year-old?

And who says brushing your hair isn't for vanity? You'll be perfectly fine with a bird's nest on your head, no serious health implications.

+1

It's all vanity.

Who the hell cares? If you don't "approve" of removing the hair on your legs, by all means, don't. But don't judge anyone else who does.

as the +1 poster - I do think it's vanity, but I personally APPROVE of vanity. Vanity isn't BAD - just means that it's about your appearance. Nothing wrong with wanting to have brushed hair and smooth legs.

I never thought that I'd come across anyone in my life, even on an anonymous forum, who would say something like "I approve of vanity". I'm stunned. Anyway, if that's the way you choose to live your life, that's your right. Go ahead. In my day and age, being accused of being vain was a dire insult.

In any case, brushing one's hair is basic grooming, not vanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Waxing kids? Only the vain moms in DC do this. Maybe NY or LA too. 10 people!

+1

I was playing barbies at 10. Now we have 4th graders waxing, concealer, lip gloss, worried about what other people think of them.

That's cool. I was menstruating and masturbating at ten. Some of us bloom earlier than others.

Menstruating, masturbating and playing with dolls (Barbies or not) are not mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never thought that I'd come across anyone in my life, even on an anonymous forum, who would say something like "I approve of vanity". I'm stunned. Anyway, if that's the way you choose to live your life, that's your right. Go ahead. In my day and age, being accused of being vain was a dire insult.

In any case, brushing one's hair is basic grooming, not vanity.

Please. This forum is filled with people embracing vanity. From the car you drive, how you decorate your house, the clothes you wear- almost everything in our daily lives favors form over function. It is what it is.

So when your daughter wants to wear name-brand clothing, do you refuse to submit to societal norms and dress her in a burlap sack?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why some parents want to make a social justice stand at the expense of their childs self esteem. Makes me sad.

Teach her to shave, get laser for her 16th/18th birthday.

It's not a social justice stand. It's instilling values in one's child. Part of a parent's job.

Values? Value in being embarrassed by something that is basic grooming? Do you remove hair from your legs, pits, pubic area?

No, I don't shave. My children know, in an age appropriate way, why I don't, and why other ladies chose to.

You're daughter might choose to. Bodily autonomy and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never thought that I'd come across anyone in my life, even on an anonymous forum, who would say something like "I approve of vanity". I'm stunned. Anyway, if that's the way you choose to live your life, that's your right. Go ahead. In my day and age, being accused of being vain was a dire insult.

In any case, brushing one's hair is basic grooming, not vanity.

Please. This forum is filled with people embracing vanity. From the car you drive, how you decorate your house, the clothes you wear- almost everything in our daily lives favors form over function. It is what it is.

So when your daughter wants to wear name-brand clothing, do you refuse to submit to societal norms and dress her in a burlap sack?

We don't do name-brand clothing. We buy used as much as possible. The idea of dressing a child in a burlap sac is ridiculous. You and other posters just seem to want to make fun of people who have different values. Whatever. It's my family's life, it's our values, not yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why some parents want to make a social justice stand at the expense of their childs self esteem. Makes me sad.

Teach her to shave, get laser for her 16th/18th birthday.

It's not a social justice stand. It's instilling values in one's child. Part of a parent's job.

Values? Value in being embarrassed by something that is basic grooming? Do you remove hair from your legs, pits, pubic area?

No, I don't shave. My children know, in an age appropriate way, why I don't, and why other ladies chose to.

You're daughter might choose to. Bodily autonomy and all.

A-freaking-gain, her body her choice. She'll just be given knowledge about the background of the topic and told it's happening within the limits set by the key family rules, or not at all.

Every parent sets limits. It's part of the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why some parents want to make a social justice stand at the expense of their childs self esteem. Makes me sad.

Teach her to shave, get laser for her 16th/18th birthday.

It's not a social justice stand. It's instilling values in one's child. Part of a parent's job.

Values? Value in being embarrassed by something that is basic grooming? Do you remove hair from your legs, pits, pubic area?

No, I don't shave. My children know, in an age appropriate way, why I don't, and why other ladies chose to.

You're daughter might choose to. Bodily autonomy and all.

A-freaking-gain, her body her choice. She'll just be given knowledge about the background of the topic and told it's happening within the limits set by the key family rules, or not at all.

Every parent sets limits. It's part of the job.

I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to be your child. Enjoy their rebellion. I'm not saying that to be snarky either, just a view from the outside looking in.

THIS + 1,000,000

I wonder what that PP is rebelling against herself. Because I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that her daughter will rebel and do a complete 180 as soon as she gets the chance. Used, non-name brand clothes- that is NOT going to make middle school and high school any easier at all. Seriously. You're welcome to make whatever choices you want for your family, obviously we all have different ways of raising our kids, there's no single instruction manual.

Let me put it this way- YOU are a social outlier. This can't be a revelation for you, you probably enjoy being smarter and different than all of us sheep who blindly follow social norms. But you are making YOUR DAUGHTER a social outlier as well. And goddamn, that's a rough way to grow up.