Disruptive kids. Who is at fault the teacher or the kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They make the nutty kids stay in a class to be sure that all the other kids are disturbed and hindered from learning. Then they can easily blame and disrupt teachers careers to take the fall, even though most aren't not paid enough to put up with this type of thing.

Remove the disruptive kids from school. It is the parent's fault. Private schools can just counsel them out. If the parent cannot resolve it, they should be gone.

You’re thinking of “disruptive” like the proverbial chair thrower. I’m talking about kids who won’t stop talking during class and when the teacher admonishes them says “I’m going to tell my mom how you’re treating me and she’ll tell your boss.” Kids who laugh and mock when an unpopular kid raises their hand and answers a question. Kids who don’t do their homework and when they get a zero, mom emails the principal and gets them an extension because they had baseball practice. They make a teachers life miserable and at a private school the principal will take the side of wealthy parents over a teacher.

[Anonymous]

I knew a high school teacher who left the MCPS to take a similar job at a local private. He told me that he could no longer tell disruptive kids to shut up and sit down without risking his job. Effective discipline was impossible. The inmates were in charge,

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

You're not too bright are you. The fact of the matter is that all behaviors are rooted in unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. If you want to ignore that fact with adult behavior, go for it. In education, we should NOT ignore that fact and we (schools and teachers) can and should play some role in making sure children ages preschool to 18 get every opportunity available to have their needs met and to develop the competencies needed to behave appropriately and make responsible decisions. Parents also obviously are expected to play a huge role. Society should also play a role. [/quote]

Thank you for proving that it's the parents. You're right, bad behavior is being influenced by outside forces. [/quote]

Back Atcha - reread your original post (WTF? It's disturbing...) I stand by my post 100% including the assumption that you're not that bright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I knew a high school teacher who left the MCPS to take a similar job at a local private. He told me that he could no longer tell disruptive kids to shut up and sit down without risking his job. Effective discipline was impossible. The inmates were in charge,

Funny (although not really) that you would refer to disruptive kids as inmates. Maybe if schools weren't organized in the same way as prisons? Maybe if kids had at least the same amount of outside time as inmates?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

You're not too bright are you. The fact of the matter is that all behaviors are rooted in unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. If you want to ignore that fact with adult behavior, go for it. In education, we should NOT ignore that fact and we (schools and teachers) can and should play some role in making sure children ages preschool to 18 get every opportunity available to have their needs met and to develop the competencies needed to behave appropriately and make responsible decisions. Parents also obviously are expected to play a huge role. Society should also play a role. [/quote]

Thank you for proving that it's the parents. You're right, bad behavior is being influenced by outside forces. [/quote]

Back Atcha - reread your original post (WTF? It's disturbing...) I stand by my post 100% including the assumption that you're not that bright. [/quote]

Lol, you're the one who wrote that individuals are never responsible for their own choices and actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve seen four teachers at my child’s elementary school control the classroom without raising their voice. I asked my child how this is done and my child said the students don’t misbehave because they don’t want to disappoint the teacher. There is one teacher at the school who is always screaming at the kids and clearly does not know how to manage the classroom. This teacher is an authoritarian jerk.

Not how it works. No teacher I know can effectively manage or discipline a class today. The one teacher just lucked out with a combo of kids who are problems, it happens. More often than not, there usually only one or a couple kids that literally can take a whole class down . We have all experienced this.
No one should be yelling. But at some point the admin has to get involved, and they absolutely will not.
Yesterday, a principal in the larger metro area apparently just snapped, its all over the Baltimore news. He lost his job immediately. Not supporting bad disciplinary behavior, but everyone understands what probably happened. Teaching today is no joke.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

You're not too bright are you. The fact of the matter is that all behaviors are rooted in unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. If you want to ignore that fact with adult behavior, go for it. In education, we should NOT ignore that fact and we (schools and teachers) can and should play some role in making sure children ages preschool to 18 get every opportunity available to have their needs met and to develop the competencies needed to behave appropriately and make responsible decisions. Parents also obviously are expected to play a huge role. Society should also play a role. [/quote]

Thank you for proving that it's the parents. You're right, bad behavior is being influenced by outside forces. [/quote]

Back Atcha - reread your original post (WTF? It's disturbing...) I stand by my post 100% including the assumption that you're not that bright. [/quote]

Lol, you're the one who wrote that individuals are never responsible for their own choices and actions. [/quote]

Reading not your strong point either. That's not what I wrote. I wrote, "A CHILD is not their actions." Now, I understand that you are behaving like a child but I suspect that your age renders you an actual adult.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kid. Always the kid.[/quote]

A child is not their actions. Never the kid. Look at parents, teacher, school and classroom climate, and society. All behaviors are from unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. [/quote]

WTF? Are you trolling? It's disturbing that you've completely removed accountability and personal responsibility from the equation.

We're not talking about dogs or rats in an experiment. We're talking about human beings with free will and the intellectual capacity to know right from wrong.

[/quote]

You're not too bright are you. The fact of the matter is that all behaviors are rooted in unmet needs and/or underdeveloped social and emotional competencies. If you want to ignore that fact with adult behavior, go for it. In education, we should NOT ignore that fact and we (schools and teachers) can and should play some role in making sure children ages preschool to 18 get every opportunity available to have their needs met and to develop the competencies needed to behave appropriately and make responsible decisions. Parents also obviously are expected to play a huge role. Society should also play a role. [/quote]

Thank you for proving that it's the parents. You're right, bad behavior is being influenced by outside forces. [/quote]

Back Atcha - reread your original post (WTF? It's disturbing...) I stand by my post 100% including the assumption that you're not that bright. [/quote]

Lol, you're the one who wrote that individuals are never responsible for their own choices and actions. [/quote]

Reading not your strong point either. That's not what I wrote. I wrote, "A CHILD is not their actions." Now, I understand that you are behaving like a child but I suspect that your age renders you an actual adult. [/quote][/quote]

You seem to have overlooked, "All behaviors are from unmet needs..."

My unmeet need is the acknowledgement that people have agency and sometimes kids act like a fool or are jerks for no legitimate reason. It's part of being a kid but they only learn if someone, somewhere along the way, tells them when they cross a line.

[Anonymous]

You seem to have overlooked, "All behaviors are from unmet needs..."

My unmeet need is the acknowledgement that people have agency and sometimes kids act like a fool or are jerks for no legitimate reason. It's part of being a kid but they only learn if someone, somewhere along the way, tells them when they cross a line.

I also had an unmet need in regards to formatting.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]You seem to have overlooked, "All behaviors are from unmet needs..."

My unmeet need is the acknowledgement that people have agency and sometimes kids act like a fool or are jerks for no legitimate reason. It's part of being a kid but they only learn if someone, somewhere along the way, tells them when they cross a line.

I also had an unmet need in regards to formatting.[/quote]

Very clear that poster was referring to children in their entire post. Move on.

[Anonymous]

I could stand on this soapbox all day!

How are kids to learn that their behavior is unacceptable if there is no repercussions for their actions. Our school falls short on this. It's a problem. Kids are rude to each other, the teachers, faculty and the building. It wasn't always like this. It takes away from the learning experience. No rules, no clear expectations creates anxiety and worry. Why do you all think that mental health struggles is on the rise among young people? Bring back rules! Bring back clear expectations! Bring back respect!

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You seem to have overlooked, "All behaviors are from unmet needs..."

My unmeet need is the acknowledgement that people have agency and sometimes kids act like a fool or are jerks for no legitimate reason. It's part of being a kid but they only learn if someone, somewhere along the way, tells them when they cross a line.

I also had an unmet need in regards to formatting.[/quote]

Very clear that poster was referring to children in their entire post. Move on. [/quote]

Unless the children are in early elementary it's completely bonkers. Infantalizing tweens and teenagers is a big problem. All kids need to be corrected when they do wrong. At what age does a child have agency?

[Anonymous]

These parents who chastise we teachers when we tell real stories is truly disgusting. They call us trolls for wanting basic human decency in the classroom. They call for our firing when we do our jobs. They call us bad managers and try to ruin our careers when they humiliate us and take all tools, defences, and protections away from us. These parents act like there children and vice versa and it's indicative of cultural and societal rot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These parents who chastise we teachers when we tell real stories is truly disgusting. They call us trolls for wanting basic human decency in the classroom. They call for our firing when we do our jobs. They call us bad managers and try to ruin our careers when they humiliate us and take all tools, defences, and protections away from us. These parents act like there children and vice versa and it's indicative of cultural and societal rot.

I see some decline in the quality of teachers as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in school, disruptive kids were not much of an issue because the school and the teachers were extremely good at managing them. If there was a disruption, the teacher could remove the child quickly from the classroom and the lesson would continue.

My experience with private schools nowadays, through my child, has been very different. I see several disruptive kids who are not being effectively managed by the teacher, and those kids are eventually expelled.

So my question is: which approach is better overall? To me, there seems to be a trend toward shifting responsibility for classroom management from the teacher to the students. What do you think?

If it’s a top k-12 they’re coached out by 5th or 6th grade. Or they realize the workload and style isn’t teaching or servicing their disruptive kid well and no amount of tutoring or therapy after school will help the kid be successful at a school like that.