Disruptive kids. Who is at fault the teacher or the kid?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]You seem to have overlooked, "All behaviors are from unmet needs..."

My unmeet need is the acknowledgement that people have agency and sometimes kids act like a fool or are jerks for no legitimate reason. It's part of being a kid but they only learn if someone, somewhere along the way, tells them when they cross a line.

I also had an unmet need in regards to formatting.[/quote]

Very clear that poster was referring to children in their entire post. Move on. [/quote]

Unless the children are in early elementary it's completely bonkers. Infantalizing tweens and teenagers is a big problem. All kids need to be corrected when they do wrong. At what age does a child have agency?[/quote]

Nobody posted any statements saying kids shouldn't be corrected. If the root of behavior is at least in part having underdeveloped social and emotional skills then of course kids, tweens, and teens need to be corrected because part of the "correction" is the teachable moment to coach the skill(s) that are underdeveloped. You're bringing some preconceived ideas to these posts that are causing you to wrongly interpret them. I agree with a previous poster, move on.

[Anonymous]

If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

There's a difference between discipline and punishment. Punishment doesn't teach. Discipline includes highlighting the natural consequence of one's actions, potentially imposing a logical consequence as well AND coaching the skill that is obviously underdeveloped which led to the behavior in the first place. Punishment is usually an illogical consequence and often acts as catharsis for the adult exerting their power over the kid/teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

What consequences would you suggest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

There's a difference between discipline and punishment. Punishment doesn't teach. Discipline includes highlighting the natural consequence of one's actions, potentially imposing a logical consequence as well AND coaching the skill that is obviously underdeveloped which led to the behavior in the first place. Punishment is usually an illogical consequence and often acts as catharsis for the adult exerting their power over the kid/teen.

When discipline doesn't work then you punish. Sorry, but never punishing teaches children they can do whatever you want. If you get several warnings and don't correct your behavior, then moving on is ok. The kids aren't better off or better behaved in this new culture of not punishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

What consequences would you suggest?

I know teachers don't have this option as much, but as a parent, taking away screen time and making them play outside instead is incredibly effective!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

There's a difference between discipline and punishment. Punishment doesn't teach. Discipline includes highlighting the natural consequence of one's actions, potentially imposing a logical consequence as well AND coaching the skill that is obviously underdeveloped which led to the behavior in the first place. Punishment is usually an illogical consequence and often acts as catharsis for the adult exerting their power over the kid/teen.

Punishment serves two purposes. Deterrence for the potential perpetrator and restitution for the potential victim. If you take all punitive measures away there's no deterrence factor.

It's not an either/or situation. All tools need be available, balanced and adjusted to the level of culpability and harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

Why is your kid only get outdoor time while they are at school??? That may be the crux of the issue!

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

What consequences would you suggest?

I know teachers don't have this option as much, but as a parent, taking away screen time and making them play outside instead is incredibly effective!

A school can't do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

What consequences would you suggest?

I know teachers don't have this option as much, but as a parent, taking away screen time and making them play outside instead is incredibly effective!

A school can't do that.

Literally says that at the top...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is no way to punish a child for their actions we end up with entitled brats that walk around thinking they are above the law. Mini Donald trumps! I feel for teachers who have been stripped of their abilities to take away recess or anything a kid cares about to help change the bad behavior. A call home doesn't do anything anymore because parents blindly defend their children and then go for the throat of the teachers that complain about their child.

If taking away recess helps change bad behavior than why is it always the same kids missing recess? Taking away recess is one of the more stupid and illogical of all consequences particularly since it keeps the kids who need it the most from having that time to expel their energy. As a previous poster commented - inmates get more outside time than most school kids. Get real.

What consequences would you suggest?

I know teachers don't have this option as much, but as a parent, taking away screen time and making them play outside instead is incredibly effective!

A school can't do that.

Literally says that at the top...

Ok, so what disciplinary actions should a school be able to take?

[Anonymous]

“Who is at fault — the teacher or the kid?”

The parents.

Yes, we all know you’re not physically at school. That in no way changes the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ways in which children and teens (and adults) behave is directly correlated to their social -emotional competency. When a student exhibits unwanted or inappropriate behavior they are demonstrating a lack in a skill or skill set related to one or more of the five social -emotional competencies. It takes a village to develop these competencies - parents, teachers, and schools. If you want less behavior problems in schools start with proactively coaching these competencies as a matter of intention as well as embedded throughout the learning experiences of the school day. And, any discipline should include further coaching. Punishment doesn't teach a skill.

Yeah, no. It only “takes a village” when people WANT something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Who is at fault — the teacher or the kid?”

The parents.

Yes, we all know you’re not physically at school. That in no way changes the answer.

No. Sometimes it's the kid. Sometimes it's the school. And sometimes it's the parents.

Meaningless slogans and platitudes are the problem.