Crown boundary study Option H

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The education at Wootton is top notch right now. Fix the existing Wootton building and/or put temporary classrooms until a full renovation can happen in 2035. This is far preferable to a wholesale lift-and-shift that undermines the neighborhoods that have fed into Wootton for 50+ years.

Is there a reason that you think the education would no longer be top notch in a new building? Is it maybe because that new building might include more Black and Brown people? Please just say what you really mean because the argument that students and staff should risk their health in unsafe buildings or spend a decade or more in portable classrooms rather than move to a spectacular new facility seems disingenuous.

Moreover, did you know that there is no plan for Wootton to be renovated in 2035? That was the earliest that it was speculated to be able to happen IF A) the BOE voted to renovate it and IF B) there were money to do so in 10 years.

In summary, your current options are: 1) unsafe building with no fixes but the same "diversity" which you seem to like or 2) a top notch, to use your term, facility where you are perhaps joined by "diversity" you don't like.

Tell me again what your choice is and why? Be honest this time.



I don't know if the projected numbers of Blacks/Browns are going to be as much as you or the previous poster is thinking or implying.

Based on the Option H Effects tables the changes would be:

% Black/African American: 11.8->13
% Asian: 44.2->43.1
% Hispanic: 9->9.6
% White: 28.6->28.2
% 2 or more races: 6.1->5.9
% FARMS: 14->14.8
% EML: 3.1->3.3

So the largest change is like 2.6% so out of 1999 students, like 40 additional Black/Brown students in a whole school?

Option H isn't really helping anything, ie spread out demographics, overcrowding at schools, etc. And the only issue it's really solving is Wootton's aging building.

This is all of course assuming that MCPS's forecasts in option H are accurate.

I thought some of the rationale that previous poster mentioned might've been kind of off or I had a different point of view of. But I saw them more talking about the change in proximity of the schools rather then changing demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, MCPS could do a mini-renovation at Wootton to fix many of the more egregious issues. If there are classrooms that are problematic, then temporary classrooms for a few years is the answer until permanent fixes can be made. Based on what a PP indicated about the age of all of the other high schools in the area, Wootton doesn't seem like an outlier at all.

The idea that Wootton has been crumbling for years (more than a decade), yet MCPS now can't find the money to do a full scale renovation until 2035 appears intentional. The Wootton -> Crown -> rename Crown to Wootton seems like a transparent attempt to transplant all of the high-achieving kids from Wootton to Crown (by dangling a new building), then steal the reputation of Wootton as a high-achieving school. FYI, Wootton gained significant national recognition in the early 2000s, particularly when it was named a National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence in 2002.

Option H - MCPS creates a high-achieving school without the 20-30 years that it takes to develop one organically. Pats itself on the back for meeting its goals....

I mean, it would basically be the same school in a different location/building? I don't see how it would be stealing another school's reputation-- how do you steal from yourself?

Nope. The new Wootton would be a mix of the old Wootton and the kids that would have gone to Crown.

And this is bad, why?

Schools move buildings and it doesn't harm them. Blair moved from old Blair to new Blair and it was fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, MCPS could do a mini-renovation at Wootton to fix many of the more egregious issues. If there are classrooms that are problematic, then temporary classrooms for a few years is the answer until permanent fixes can be made. Based on what a PP indicated about the age of all of the other high schools in the area, Wootton doesn't seem like an outlier at all.

The idea that Wootton has been crumbling for years (more than a decade), yet MCPS now can't find the money to do a full scale renovation until 2035 appears intentional. The Wootton -> Crown -> rename Crown to Wootton seems like a transparent attempt to transplant all of the high-achieving kids from Wootton to Crown (by dangling a new building), then steal the reputation of Wootton as a high-achieving school. FYI, Wootton gained significant national recognition in the early 2000s, particularly when it was named a National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence in 2002.

Option H - MCPS creates a high-achieving school without the 20-30 years that it takes to develop one organically. Pats itself on the back for meeting its goals....

I mean, it would basically be the same school in a different location/building? I don't see how it would be stealing another school's reputation-- how do you steal from yourself?

Nope. The new Wootton would be a mix of the old Wootton and the kids that would have gone to Crown.

And this is bad, why?

Schools move buildings and it doesn't harm them. Blair moved from old Blair to new Blair and it was fine.

There are two Wootton clusters that are walkers now and don't want to give that up. Fair, but no great alternative. The rest of the clusters don't really care.

[Anonymous]

Do you really trust MCPS data? MCPS’s enrollment projections have shifted dramatically in recent years, and the forecasts for Crown are especially unstable because the surrounding area is still developing. The demographics and utilization shown in Option H represent only one snapshot in time. As Crown continues to grow with new housing and new students, today’s numbers will not reflect long-term reality. Building a major boundary change on inconsistent or speculative projections is not responsible planning.

It's also important to separate two issues that MCPS is trying to merge: boundary adjustments and building conditions. Boundary studies should focus on geography, walkability and community stability. The aging Wootton facility is a capital planning problem caused by years of deferred maintenance. Moving thousands of students to the school far from their neighborhoods is not a substitute for proper CIP funding, and using Crown as a holding school was never the purpose of this boundary study.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The education at Wootton is top notch right now. Fix the existing Wootton building and/or put temporary classrooms until a full renovation can happen in 2035. This is far preferable to a wholesale lift-and-shift that undermines the neighborhoods that have fed into Wootton for 50+ years.

Is there a reason that you think the education would no longer be top notch in a new building? Is it maybe because that new building might include more Black and Brown people? Please just say what you really mean because the argument that students and staff should risk their health in unsafe buildings or spend a decade or more in portable classrooms rather than move to a spectacular new facility seems disingenuous.

Moreover, did you know that there is no plan for Wootton to be renovated in 2035? That was the earliest that it was speculated to be able to happen IF A) the BOE voted to renovate it and IF B) there were money to do so in 10 years.

In summary, your current options are: 1) unsafe building with no fixes but the same "diversity" which you seem to like or 2) a top notch, to use your term, facility where you are perhaps joined by "diversity" you don't like.

Tell me again what your choice is and why? Be honest this time.

I don't know if the projected numbers of Blacks/Browns are going to be as much as you or the previous poster is thinking or implying.

Based on the Option H Effects tables the changes would be:

% Black/African American: 11.8->13
% Asian: 44.2->43.1
% Hispanic: 9->9.6
% White: 28.6->28.2
% 2 or more races: 6.1->5.9
% FARMS: 14->14.8
% EML: 3.1->3.3

So the largest change is like 2.6% so out of 1999 students, like 40 additional Black/Brown students in a whole school?

Option H isn't really helping anything, ie spread out demographics, overcrowding at schools, etc. And the only issue it's really solving is Wootton's aging building.

This is all of course assuming that MCPS's forecasts in option H are accurate.

I thought some of the rationale that previous poster mentioned might've been kind of off or I had a different point of view of. But I saw them more talking about the change in proximity of the schools rather then changing demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The education at Wootton is top notch right now. Fix the existing Wootton building and/or put temporary classrooms until a full renovation can happen in 2035. This is far preferable to a wholesale lift-and-shift that undermines the neighborhoods that have fed into Wootton for 50+ years.

Is there a reason that you think the education would no longer be top notch in a new building? Is it maybe because that new building might include more Black and Brown people? Please just say what you really mean because the argument that students and staff should risk their health in unsafe buildings or spend a decade or more in portable classrooms rather than move to a spectacular new facility seems disingenuous.

Moreover, did you know that there is no plan for Wootton to be renovated in 2035? That was the earliest that it was speculated to be able to happen IF A) the BOE voted to renovate it and IF B) there were money to do so in 10 years.

In summary, your current options are: 1) unsafe building with no fixes but the same "diversity" which you seem to like or 2) a top notch, to use your term, facility where you are perhaps joined by "diversity" you don't like.

Tell me again what your choice is and why? Be honest this time.

I don't know if the projected numbers of Blacks/Browns are going to be as much as you or the previous poster is thinking or implying.

Based on the Option H Effects tables the changes would be:

% Black/African American: 11.8->13
% Asian: 44.2->43.1
% Hispanic: 9->9.6
% White: 28.6->28.2
% 2 or more races: 6.1->5.9
% FARMS: 14->14.8
% EML: 3.1->3.3

So the largest change is like 2.6% so out of 1999 students, like 40 additional Black/Brown students in a whole school?

Option H isn't really helping anything, ie spread out demographics, overcrowding at schools, etc. And the only issue it's really solving is Wootton's aging building.

This is all of course assuming that MCPS's forecasts in option H are accurate.

I thought some of the rationale that previous poster mentioned might've been kind of off or I had a different point of view of. But I saw them more talking about the change in proximity of the schools rather then changing demographics.

Do you really trust MCPS data? MCPS’s enrollment projections have shifted dramatically in recent years, and the forecasts for Crown are especially unstable because the surrounding area is still developing. The demographics and utilization shown in Option H represent only one snapshot in time. As Crown continues to grow with new housing and new students, today’s numbers will not reflect long-term reality. Building a major boundary change on inconsistent or speculative projections is not responsible planning.

It's also important to separate two issues that MCPS is trying to merge: boundary adjustments and building conditions. Boundary studies should focus on geography, walkability and community stability. The aging Wootton facility is a capital planning problem caused by years of deferred maintenance. Moving thousands of students to the school far from their neighborhoods is not a substitute for proper CIP funding, and using Crown as a holding school was never the purpose of this boundary study.

[Anonymous]

Do you really trust MCPS data? MCPS’s enrollment projections have shifted dramatically in recent years, and the forecasts for Crown are especially unstable because the surrounding area is still developing. The demographics and utilization shown in Option H represent only one snapshot in time. As Crown continues to grow with new housing and new students, today’s numbers will not reflect long-term reality. Building a major boundary change on inconsistent or speculative projections is not responsible planning.

It's also important to separate two issues that MCPS is trying to merge: boundary adjustments and building conditions. Boundary studies should focus on geography, walkability and community stability. The aging Wootton facility is a capital planning problem caused by years of deferred maintenance. Moving thousands of students to the school far from their neighborhoods is not a substitute for proper CIP funding, and using Crown as a holding school was never the purpose of this boundary study.

[Anonymous]

Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

What magic budget are you pulling from? That is a dream, not reality. there isn't money for Wootton now and there certainly won't be down the road. Do you think MCPS is really going to allocate money to rebuild crumbling Wootton ten years from now once the kids are safely out and learn to live with the new normal?

Also, do kids from Stone Mill, Travillah and Dufief not participate in after school activities? How do they make it work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

They will survive. Gosh, how do the rest of us schlubs manage put our kids on the bus and drive to pick them up after school for activities.

Moco tax revenues are down. Enrollment is declining. Makes zero sense to rebuild Wootton for a few neighborhoods to have to take a bus.

I don't work for MCPS, and I think it's a stupid idea to fix Wootton AND open Crown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

They will survive. Gosh, how do the rest of us schlubs manage put our kids on the bus and drive to pick them up after school for activities.

Moco tax revenues are down. Enrollment is declining. Makes zero sense to rebuild Wootton for a few neighborhoods to have to take a bus.

I don't work for MCPS, and I think it's a stupid idea to fix Wootton AND open Crown.

It’s stupid idea to build crown. MCPS’s mismanagement is undeniable. They poured resources into opening an unnecessary school while neglecting Wootton’s needs, now forcing Wootton to become the victim of their poor planning and lose its current building where they belong for 50+ years. It’s no different from Silver Spring international middle school which is forced to close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

They will survive. Gosh, how do the rest of us schlubs manage put our kids on the bus and drive to pick them up after school for activities.

Moco tax revenues are down. Enrollment is declining. Makes zero sense to rebuild Wootton for a few neighborhoods to have to take a bus.

I don't work for MCPS, and I think it's a stupid idea to fix Wootton AND open Crown.

It’s stupid idea to build crown. MCPS’s mismanagement is undeniable. They poured resources into opening an unnecessary school while neglecting Wootton’s needs, now forcing Wootton to become the victim of their poor planning and lose its current building where they belong for 50+ years. It’s no different from Silver Spring international middle school which is forced to close.

Not saying it wasn't stupid to build Crown, but what's your solution for Wootton? Keep kids there in a moldy tinderbox of a building just to prove the point that MCPS is stupid? Or send kids 2.3 miles away to a brand new building with all the bells and whistles (but oh yeah, you have to let another ES or two into the mix)? The Wootton community looks pretty bad opposing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, MCPS could do a mini-renovation at Wootton to fix many of the more egregious issues. If there are classrooms that are problematic, then temporary classrooms for a few years is the answer until permanent fixes can be made. Based on what a PP indicated about the age of all of the other high schools in the area, Wootton doesn't seem like an outlier at all.

The idea that Wootton has been crumbling for years (more than a decade), yet MCPS now can't find the money to do a full scale renovation until 2035 appears intentional. The Wootton -> Crown -> rename Crown to Wootton seems like a transparent attempt to transplant all of the high-achieving kids from Wootton to Crown (by dangling a new building), then steal the reputation of Wootton as a high-achieving school. FYI, Wootton gained significant national recognition in the early 2000s, particularly when it was named a National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence in 2002.

Option H - MCPS creates a high-achieving school without the 20-30 years that it takes to develop one organically. Pats itself on the back for meeting its goals....

I mean, it would basically be the same school in a different location/building? I don't see how it would be stealing another school's reputation-- how do you steal from yourself?

Nope. The new Wootton would be a mix of the old Wootton and the kids that would have gone to Crown.

Okay, but how is that "stealing a reputation'? It's just, like, a relatively minor boundary change and a school building change. When those things happen at other schools people don't act like the school is no longer the same school, so why now? I mean, granted, those things don't usually happen at the same time, but I still don't really follow why it's that big a deal...

This isn't a minor boundary change and it is a HUGE deal for parents whose kids are accustomed to walking/biking to school (because many afterschool activities do not have school transportation available). It will also inconvenience the Wootton staff who live nearby.

The education at Wootton is top notch right now. Fix the existing Wootton building and/or put temporary classrooms until a full renovation can happen in 2035. This is far preferable to a wholesale lift-and-shift that undermines the neighborhoods that have fed into Wootton for 50+ years.

How is it not a minor boundary change? A lot of other schools are seeing bigger boundary changes proposed in the various options right now, and no one's saying "OMG the sky is falling, Northwood won't be Northwood anymore! WJ won't be WJ anymore! " I get that it *feels* a little weirder because it's also simultaneously a location change, but really the proposed Wootton boundary change is not at all outside the ordinary of what's happening to like half the high schools in the county right now...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

They will survive. Gosh, how do the rest of us schlubs manage put our kids on the bus and drive to pick them up after school for activities.

Moco tax revenues are down. Enrollment is declining. Makes zero sense to rebuild Wootton for a few neighborhoods to have to take a bus.

I don't work for MCPS, and I think it's a stupid idea to fix Wootton AND open Crown.

It’s stupid idea to build crown. MCPS’s mismanagement is undeniable. They poured resources into opening an unnecessary school while neglecting Wootton’s needs, now forcing Wootton to become the victim of their poor planning and lose its current building where they belong for 50+ years. It’s no different from Silver Spring international middle school which is forced to close.

Not saying it wasn't stupid to build Crown, but what's your solution for Wootton? Keep kids there in a moldy tinderbox of a building just to prove the point that MCPS is stupid? Or send kids 2.3 miles away to a brand new building with all the bells and whistles (but oh yeah, you have to let another ES or two into the mix)? The Wootton community looks pretty bad opposing this.

This may be a solution, but it’s happening only after MCPS’s mismanagement has already done its damage. They should have just renovated Wootton according to the original CIP. Instead, they invited avoidable problems and widespread disruption. MCPS is the one at fault and should be condemned. Wootton is the victim and the one paying the price for MCPS poor decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to build a new HS and fix up a crumbling one when enrollment is decreasing, budgets are being cut, and tax revenue is down.

The kids will be fine taking a bus instead of walking. Thousands of kids do it in MCPS. They will be fine.

More like 50% of the kids who can walk to Wootton will be forced to take a bus. That means their parents will have to drive to pick up for after school activities, further clogging the roads around Crown.

Wootton can be repaired in the interim, and renovated in the long term. It's just that MCPS doesn't want to do that.

They will survive. Gosh, how do the rest of us schlubs manage put our kids on the bus and drive to pick them up after school for activities.

Moco tax revenues are down. Enrollment is declining. Makes zero sense to rebuild Wootton for a few neighborhoods to have to take a bus.

I don't work for MCPS, and I think it's a stupid idea to fix Wootton AND open Crown.

It’s stupid idea to build crown. MCPS’s mismanagement is undeniable. They poured resources into opening an unnecessary school while neglecting Wootton’s needs, now forcing Wootton to become the victim of their poor planning and lose its current building where they belong for 50+ years. It’s no different from Silver Spring international middle school which is forced to close.

Sure, MCPS sucks, but when they started to build Crown, all of the surrounding HS were projected to be over capacity, and they didn't have this regional model concept.

Now, they are projecting enrollment declines, and we have a huge budget issue.

Yes, they should've fixed Wootton a while ago, but there were a lot of schools that needed to be fixed in the CIP.

So, here we are, declining enrollments, budget issues, a brand new HS, and another HS next to that new build that is falling apart.

Common sense is to move the Wootton kids to Crown.