Cuts for Making HS Team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McLean boys did win Districts last year. So maybe they were the stronger team of the two?

The Madison HS Free cut was faster for girls than for boys this year. Per swim farm, McLean boys were 8 seconds faster than girls. The top of these rosters will always have fast kids, but the bottom of the roster seems to have the ability to fluctuate significantly based on what is a relatively small sample size.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Again, they are NOT competing with 13-14s for these HS spots. They are competing with 15-18s, who can do it. Your list has two girls with decent enough breast who need to work on free before they're ready for the HS team if they're at a competitive HS. (1:17 isn't enough.) And of those two is an 8th grader, so she has time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

At our school, there are sophomores and juniors trying to make the team for the first time who were rejected (or made a team manager) once or twice before. I question your comprehension because the times you're citing are not decent and yet you keep going back to them. Some teams have cuts and they mean them. They aren't losing some amazing talent because of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

You’re moving goalposts here and not making a lot of sense. You’re the one that trotted out a reference to summer swim as though that should be used to evaluate swimmers. Then you cited the 100 breast times for these NVSL all stars that aren’t particularly fast. None of those times are good enough to make a coach say we need that girl because she’s so good at breaststroke, even if she’s not particularly good at any other event. The swimmers you cited to based on the times you provided are ones that at a really competitive HS may get passed over, but at another HS they would be fine. If all you’re trying to say is that some people are better at certain strokes than others, that’s an obvious statement that you don’t need to cite random kids times to prove.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

You’re moving goalposts here and not making a lot of sense. You’re the one that trotted out a reference to summer swim as though that should be used to evaluate swimmers. Then you cited the 100 breast times for these NVSL all stars that aren’t particularly fast. None of those times are good enough to make a coach say we need that girl because she’s so good at breaststroke, even if she’s not particularly good at any other event. The swimmers you cited to based on the times you provided are ones that at a really competitive HS may get passed over, but at another HS they would be fine. If all you’re trying to say is that some people are better at certain strokes than others, that’s an obvious statement that you don’t need to cite random kids times to prove.

This whole thing stemmed from page 9's "I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

The point was indeed only that some kids are good at one stroke but not freestyle. While you think that's obvious and doesn't need support, others just cried BS. So I supported my statement with an easily verifiable example and then the goalposts moved.

To double down: 1:17 would have made the B final at the National District swim meet last year, 1:15 would have slid into the A final, 1:02 would have made the B final in free. At the Concorde District meet, 1:15 would have made the B final, 1:13 the A final, and a 1:02 free was second to last, no points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

You’re moving goalposts here and not making a lot of sense. You’re the one that trotted out a reference to summer swim as though that should be used to evaluate swimmers. Then you cited the 100 breast times for these NVSL all stars that aren’t particularly fast. None of those times are good enough to make a coach say we need that girl because she’s so good at breaststroke, even if she’s not particularly good at any other event. The swimmers you cited to based on the times you provided are ones that at a really competitive HS may get passed over, but at another HS they would be fine. If all you’re trying to say is that some people are better at certain strokes than others, that’s an obvious statement that you don’t need to cite random kids times to prove.

This whole thing stemmed from page 9's "I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

The point was indeed only that some kids are good at one stroke but not freestyle. While you think that's obvious and doesn't need support, others just cried BS. So I supported my statement with an easily verifiable example and then the goalposts moved.

To double down: 1:17 would have made the B final at the National District swim meet last year, 1:15 would have slid into the A final, 1:02 would have made the B final in free. At the Concorde District meet, 1:15 would have made the B final, 1:13 the A final, and a 1:02 free was second to last, no points.

It's the Patriot District with most of the teams that cut. And you needed 1:12.61 100 breast there to make finals.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

You’re moving goalposts here and not making a lot of sense. You’re the one that trotted out a reference to summer swim as though that should be used to evaluate swimmers. Then you cited the 100 breast times for these NVSL all stars that aren’t particularly fast. None of those times are good enough to make a coach say we need that girl because she’s so good at breaststroke, even if she’s not particularly good at any other event. The swimmers you cited to based on the times you provided are ones that at a really competitive HS may get passed over, but at another HS they would be fine. If all you’re trying to say is that some people are better at certain strokes than others, that’s an obvious statement that you don’t need to cite random kids times to prove.

This whole thing stemmed from page 9's "I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

The point was indeed only that some kids are good at one stroke but not freestyle. While you think that's obvious and doesn't need support, others just cried BS. So I supported my statement with an easily verifiable example and then the goalposts moved.

To double down: 1:17 would have made the B final at the National District swim meet last year, 1:15 would have slid into the A final, 1:02 would have made the B final in free. At the Concorde District meet, 1:15 would have made the B final, 1:13 the A final, and a 1:02 free was second to last, no points.

It's the Patriot District with most of the teams that cut. And you needed 1:12.61 100 breast there to make finals.

Cool story, and you need a 59.0 to make the B final in Free in that district. So, same argument, but just faster breaststroke and free times.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a swimmer on a HS team and she is saying that no one makes it who doesn't have at least a 1:10 in 100 free (women's). Not sure how accurate that is.

For my kid's school it's 1:02. And yes, there will be cuts to get down to 30 girls, and yes some kids who swim club will be cut.

1:02? Is this a local school - that seems very fast.

And a really stupid metric for someone who is, say, a breast specialist

I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

I can think of a bunch. We’re talking about 13 and 14-year-old girls.

Actually, we're talking about 14 to 18 year old girls. And as a specific example, all the winter classic B finalists in open 100 breast and the 14 year olds in 13-14 tonight have a 100 free under a minute. All the "specialists" should be making the B final.

You’re comparing winter classic finalists with kids fighting to make the bottom of a bloated high school team roster. Apples and hand grenades.

I'm saying that 1:02.50 is a perfectly reasonable standard for 100 freestyle to keep the team from getting too bloated, and someone saying they can't meet that standard because they're a breaststroker is full of it.

1:02.5 a reasonable standard: Ok

Can’t meet it because there’re a breaststroke: Not full of it at all. Just say you don’t know any breaststroke specialists.

I’d gladly give you names of 5 kids I can personally name that fall under this criteria. But I’m not calling kids out. Hell, in 1 minute of research I came up with five 13-14 girls that made NVSL all stars in breaststroke that were not in the top 100 in freestyle, and aren’t sniffing 1:02.

50s without blocks in summer league is not relevant here, especially since they are competing with 15-18 for spots. I would say a specialist should be under 1:16 for breast. PVS girls I saw right at that standard are all under 1:02 in free. If one isn't, well she might have to wait until sophomore year to join a varsity team.

+1, can the NVSL summer swim people go away for at least another few months? Summer swim doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a valid comparison point, it’s 50 SCM races with no blocks, no touchpads, outdoors, etc. Specialist is also relative, your best stroke may be breaststroke but if you're under the A time standard I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re a “specialist”. When I think specialist I think of the swimmer who is at least champs level in a stroke but is nowhere close to that level in any other event. The higher level swimmer you are talking about, the more rare that is.

-Yeah, swimming outdoors doesn't count! I mean, except for the Olympics, Pro Series Events, and European Champs.
-And no touchpads? I mean, those times are likely off by minutes!
-Would you prefer we not use the word, "specialist" and just say "best stroke by a fair margin"? Would that make you feel better?

That 13-14G NVSL all-star was just a quick and easy example to see 5 top-tier swimmers in one small snapshot.

Those 100y times:

Free / Breast
1:04 / 1:15
1:05 / 1:13
1:06 / 1:17
1:10 / 1:17
1:05 / 1:17
+1 that doesn't have recent SCY times, but would not be able to hit 1:02 in 100y Free

Just because you don't see it, or don't want to see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's ok to be wrong.

Stay crazy NVSL parent, and keep telling yourself that summer recreation league swim is the barometer that swimmers should be judged on 🙄 I’m going to be real, the PVS Open breaststroke cut (because that’s the cut that matters for most HS swimmers who are between 15-18) is a 1:14.49, so only one of those girls would even qualify for PVS champs. The reality is those girls are just mid level club swimmers not these super strong breaststrokers that aren’t that good at freestyle.

You can't see the forest through the trees. The entire thread is about a subset of kids trying out for a HS team, worrying about cuts. Not kids making Champs times. Kids clinging to the bottom of the HS roster.

-These kids are mostly going to be 14-15 y/o. 17/18s aren't trying out for a HS team hoping to make it after getting cut 3 years in a row.
-This is about kids being good at one stroke but not another. I picked breaststroke as an example.

Obv summer league is not THE barometer. Without naming children, it's a simple way to show kids that some people can be decent at one stroke and not that great at another, which others called outlandish.

Reading comprehension on this board is abysmal for so many.

You’re moving goalposts here and not making a lot of sense. You’re the one that trotted out a reference to summer swim as though that should be used to evaluate swimmers. Then you cited the 100 breast times for these NVSL all stars that aren’t particularly fast. None of those times are good enough to make a coach say we need that girl because she’s so good at breaststroke, even if she’s not particularly good at any other event. The swimmers you cited to based on the times you provided are ones that at a really competitive HS may get passed over, but at another HS they would be fine. If all you’re trying to say is that some people are better at certain strokes than others, that’s an obvious statement that you don’t need to cite random kids times to prove.

This whole thing stemmed from page 9's "I do not know any breast specialists who are not also well under a minute in the 100 free. If they can't hit that, it's an excuse, not a specialty. 55 seconds, sure maybe not reasonable, but a minute two?

The point was indeed only that some kids are good at one stroke but not freestyle. While you think that's obvious and doesn't need support, others just cried BS. So I supported my statement with an easily verifiable example and then the goalposts moved.

To double down: 1:17 would have made the B final at the National District swim meet last year, 1:15 would have slid into the A final, 1:02 would have made the B final in free. At the Concorde District meet, 1:15 would have made the B final, 1:13 the A final, and a 1:02 free was second to last, no points.

It's the Patriot District with most of the teams that cut. And you needed 1:12.61 100 breast there to make finals.

+1, I don’t know why this poster is digging in on this using districts where most of the teams are no cut. The times for teams that don’t cut anyone aren’t really relevant to a conversation about what times are needed for teams that cut.

[Anonymous]

Oh my gosh, yawn, I should not have read this far

[Anonymous]

This is one of multiple threads about HS cuts. On teams that are selective, there are enough kids who have those cuts (the McLean ones listed elsewhere, by the way, are totally reasonable and not at all fast) that they don't need to take the ones who don't. Lanes are only so big. Teams can only be so big. But there are people who seem to be surprised that there would be barriers in place. No one questions basketball tryouts. Why are swim cuts - which are much more objective - somehow a point of contention?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of multiple threads about HS cuts. On teams that are selective, there are enough kids who have those cuts (the McLean ones listed elsewhere, by the way, are totally reasonable and not at all fast) that they don't need to take the ones who don't. Lanes are only so big. Teams can only be so big. But there are people who seem to be surprised that there would be barriers in place. No one questions basketball tryouts. Why are swim cuts - which are much more objective - somehow a point of contention?

+ 1 I don’t understand this “even swim team has cuts?!” mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of multiple threads about HS cuts. On teams that are selective, there are enough kids who have those cuts (the McLean ones listed elsewhere, by the way, are totally reasonable and not at all fast) that they don't need to take the ones who don't. Lanes are only so big. Teams can only be so big. But there are people who seem to be surprised that there would be barriers in place. No one questions basketball tryouts. Why are swim cuts - which are much more objective - somehow a point of contention?

The McLean boys’ cuts are actually fast (girls not so much), especially for freshmen (14 year old) boys. I think the reason some people are taking issue is that the super fast club swimmers don’t generally practice with the HS team anyway, so they are not taking lane space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of multiple threads about HS cuts. On teams that are selective, there are enough kids who have those cuts (the McLean ones listed elsewhere, by the way, are totally reasonable and not at all fast) that they don't need to take the ones who don't. Lanes are only so big. Teams can only be so big. But there are people who seem to be surprised that there would be barriers in place. No one questions basketball tryouts. Why are swim cuts - which are much more objective - somehow a point of contention?

+ 1 I don’t understand this “even swim team has cuts?!” mentality.

Demand exceeds supply. Not that hard to understand.