Bumkini

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe we have this debate every week over a few inches of skin.

Nearly all swim suits in our culture, even the modest ones, even my one piece with cap sleeves, are form fitting and show a lot of skin. You can still see my butt cheeks even though they’re mostly covered. They show the contours of the body and allow one to easily imagine what an individual looks like naked.

Guess what? Unless the teen girls are wearing burkinis, they’re getting male sexual attention. The dads are trying to avert their eyes. The teen boys (and some teen girl peers) are noting who has the great t*ts and big butts and talking about it with their friends. The lecherous pervs are taking mental pictures to crank their hog to later. And someone who aims to sexually assault a teen girl will not be stopped by a more modest swimsuit. It’s just not how it works. Thong, bikini, hipster, it doesn’t matter. Teen girls, in swimsuits or otherwise, get male attention with their bodies. That’s just how the world works.

And the only ones who are judging a teen over whether her whole cheek is out or just part of it are other women, mostly unhappy and middle aged, and maybe a few mean teen girls.

If a one-piece with cap sleeves is as sexually alluring why does anyone bother with a thong? Because it's not true.

And we're not taking about lecherous pervs taking mental pictures, we're talking about lecherous pervs taking actual pictures, and we're taking about a highly toxic teen male culture which is already horrifically objectifying of women—it's no crime to wear a thong, but advising your daughter to not encourage the Junior Andrew Tates of the world is sensible. Because there are lots of them. He and his acolytes are disgusting losers, but you can't pretend they don't exist.

The woman that get assaulted and graped more than any in the world wear burkas

What woman wear is what woman wear. Do nude beaches have more SA's? - nope.

This has nothing to do with woman and everything to do with raising boys to decent men. But when we have moms here saying these girls are asking for it or asking to be looked at, miss the ENTIRE point. They are bathing suits. Girls wear trends. No teen is going to wear a mommy suit and it has nothing to do with teen boys. They follow their friend's and their trends.

It is the moms judging their teen girls that allow this victim mentality and the mom of teen boys who say the girls are abc because of what they wear

+1
The people opposed seem to be 2 categories
-jealous
-perverts themselves who need girls to cover themselves so they don’t do/think something inappropriate about children

Yes, you're right. The only people who have a problem with teens going nearly naked in public is perverts... you win that one! Guess what? There are lots of perverts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always think of that part of Crazy Stupid Love where Ryan Gosling says, "The war between the sexes is over. We won the second women started doing pole dancing for exercise." As a PP pointed out, AMAZING how the fashion for teen girls (and grown women) is super skimpy. Incredible how that always works.

Wish I could convince my DH to show up to the pool in whatever swimsuit DD picks for herself. Would make the point of how completely silly it looks.

Look, I wore (or tried to wear) stuff my mom didn't like when I was a kid. I liked to wear it so the boys would think I was attractive and the girls would think I was cool (because the boys thought I was attractive). My mom didn't like it because she thought it was trashy (it was usually trashy). Sometimes she was successful, sometimes I removed the safety pin holding the neckline together. No permanent harm was done on either side. So I guess the stakes are fairly low. But no, my daughter is not allowed to wear low-coverage bikini bottoms. She'll either do some thinking about why she really wants to wear these things and what that reflects about our society, or she will hoard some allowance and learn some ingenuity. Either way it's character-building.

It would be nice if there was an easy way to explain to teens that if they want boys to pay attention, NOT wearing the thong would work better. They definitely like seeing the ones who wear the thongs, but they also think they're trashy and WISH they could see more of the ones not in the thong. The girl in the normal bikini will be the one they like, the one in the thong will be seen as the try-hard sl*t.

Or we could teach our sons not to think of any girl/woman as a ‘try hard slut’. No need to perpetuate more misogyny here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always think of that part of Crazy Stupid Love where Ryan Gosling says, "The war between the sexes is over. We won the second women started doing pole dancing for exercise." As a PP pointed out, AMAZING how the fashion for teen girls (and grown women) is super skimpy. Incredible how that always works.

Wish I could convince my DH to show up to the pool in whatever swimsuit DD picks for herself. Would make the point of how completely silly it looks.

Look, I wore (or tried to wear) stuff my mom didn't like when I was a kid. I liked to wear it so the boys would think I was attractive and the girls would think I was cool (because the boys thought I was attractive). My mom didn't like it because she thought it was trashy (it was usually trashy). Sometimes she was successful, sometimes I removed the safety pin holding the neckline together. No permanent harm was done on either side. So I guess the stakes are fairly low. But no, my daughter is not allowed to wear low-coverage bikini bottoms. She'll either do some thinking about why she really wants to wear these things and what that reflects about our society, or she will hoard some allowance and learn some ingenuity. Either way it's character-building.

It would be nice if there was an easy way to explain to teens that if they want boys to pay attention, NOT wearing the thong would work better. They definitely like seeing the ones who wear the thongs, but they also think they're trashy and WISH they could see more of the ones not in the thong. The girl in the normal bikini will be the one they like, the one in the thong will be seen as the try-hard sl*t.

Or we could teach our sons not to think of any girl/woman as a ‘try hard slut’. No need to perpetuate more misogyny here.

What would you call a woman who seeks out shallow sexual relationships under the mistaken belief that it will make men respect her? Presumably you'd like to help your daughter avoid winding up like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe we have this debate every week over a few inches of skin.

Nearly all swim suits in our culture, even the modest ones, even my one piece with cap sleeves, are form fitting and show a lot of skin. You can still see my butt cheeks even though they’re mostly covered. They show the contours of the body and allow one to easily imagine what an individual looks like naked.

Guess what? Unless the teen girls are wearing burkinis, they’re getting male sexual attention. The dads are trying to avert their eyes. The teen boys (and some teen girl peers) are noting who has the great t*ts and big butts and talking about it with their friends. The lecherous pervs are taking mental pictures to crank their hog to later. And someone who aims to sexually assault a teen girl will not be stopped by a more modest swimsuit. It’s just not how it works. Thong, bikini, hipster, it doesn’t matter. Teen girls, in swimsuits or otherwise, get male attention with their bodies. That’s just how the world works.

And the only ones who are judging a teen over whether her whole cheek is out or just part of it are other women, mostly unhappy and middle aged, and maybe a few mean teen girls.

If a one-piece with cap sleeves is as sexually alluring why does anyone bother with a thong? Because it's not true.

And we're not taking about lecherous pervs taking mental pictures, we're talking about lecherous pervs taking actual pictures, and we're taking about a highly toxic teen male culture which is already horrifically objectifying of women—it's no crime to wear a thong, but advising your daughter to not encourage the Junior Andrew Tates of the world is sensible. Because there are lots of them. He and his acolytes are disgusting losers, but you can't pretend they don't exist.

The woman that get assaulted and graped more than any in the world wear burkas

What woman wear is what woman wear. Do nude beaches have more SA's? - nope.

This has nothing to do with woman and everything to do with raising boys to decent men. But when we have moms here saying these girls are asking for it or asking to be looked at, miss the ENTIRE point. They are bathing suits. Girls wear trends. No teen is going to wear a mommy suit and it has nothing to do with teen boys. They follow their friend's and their trends.

It is the moms judging their teen girls that allow this victim mentality and the mom of teen boys who say the girls are abc because of what they wear

+1
The people opposed seem to be 2 categories
-jealous
-perverts themselves who need girls to cover themselves so they don’t do/think something inappropriate about children

How about parents that simply don’t want their girls running around nearly naked? If a similar swimsuit was popular for boys, I wouldn’t approve of my teen boys wearing it.

[Anonymous]

Cheeky has been revolutionary for competitive swimmers and water polo players who don't want the fabric drag OR the fuss of picking a wedgie. I would have worn one on swim team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cheeky has been revolutionary for competitive swimmers and water polo players who don't want the fabric drag OR the fuss of picking a wedgie. I would have worn one on swim team.

I was on swim team and would have been embarrassed to have my butt showing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe we have this debate every week over a few inches of skin.

Nearly all swim suits in our culture, even the modest ones, even my one piece with cap sleeves, are form fitting and show a lot of skin. You can still see my butt cheeks even though they’re mostly covered. They show the contours of the body and allow one to easily imagine what an individual looks like naked.

Guess what? Unless the teen girls are wearing burkinis, they’re getting male sexual attention. The dads are trying to avert their eyes. The teen boys (and some teen girl peers) are noting who has the great t*ts and big butts and talking about it with their friends. The lecherous pervs are taking mental pictures to crank their hog to later. And someone who aims to sexually assault a teen girl will not be stopped by a more modest swimsuit. It’s just not how it works. Thong, bikini, hipster, it doesn’t matter. Teen girls, in swimsuits or otherwise, get male attention with their bodies. That’s just how the world works.

And the only ones who are judging a teen over whether her whole cheek is out or just part of it are other women, mostly unhappy and middle aged, and maybe a few mean teen girls.

If a one-piece with cap sleeves is as sexually alluring why does anyone bother with a thong? Because it's not true.

And we're not taking about lecherous pervs taking mental pictures, we're talking about lecherous pervs taking actual pictures, and we're taking about a highly toxic teen male culture which is already horrifically objectifying of women—it's no crime to wear a thong, but advising your daughter to not encourage the Junior Andrew Tates of the world is sensible. Because there are lots of them. He and his acolytes are disgusting losers, but you can't pretend they don't exist.

The woman that get assaulted and graped more than any in the world wear burkas

What woman wear is what woman wear. Do nude beaches have more SA's? - nope.

This has nothing to do with woman and everything to do with raising boys to decent men. But when we have moms here saying these girls are asking for it or asking to be looked at, miss the ENTIRE point. They are bathing suits. Girls wear trends. No teen is going to wear a mommy suit and it has nothing to do with teen boys. They follow their friend's and their trends.

It is the moms judging their teen girls that allow this victim mentality and the mom of teen boys who say the girls are abc because of what they wear

+1
The people opposed seem to be 2 categories
-jealous
-perverts themselves who need girls to cover themselves so they don’t do/think something inappropriate about children

Yes, you're right. The only people who have a problem with teens going nearly naked in public is perverts... you win that one! Guess what? There are lots of perverts.

When they admit on this site that they’re attracted to children, yes. They literally say that kids shouldn’t wear these because THEY PERSONALLY think inappropriate thoughts about young girls. Expecting women and girls to police themselves to ‘help’ this pervert stop being a pervert.
Perverts gonna pervert. Stop blaming women and girls for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread just makes me think about that horrible Warren Jeffs documentary.

Except the teen girls people are trying to exploit are trapped in a cult, they're posting their exploitation on Instagram.

well, you and I have extremely different views on where the exploitation starts and ends.

You're... okay with it? Because I'm not.

We don’t allow public social media posts of any kind. If you think predators only go after teen girls if they post skimpy bikini photos, I think that’s very, very naive. I think predators will use SM to pursue girls even if all their photos are in turtlenecks, and I’m not going to teach my daughter that she is responsible for someone exploiting her image if she decides to post it against my will. It’s gross and we can try to avoid it for safety, but it’s NOT HER FAULT. and it’s not shameful! and it’s okay if she doesn’t always manage to recognize and vanquish all the misogyny that might have colored her own motivations to wear whatever. That doesn’t make her any more responsible for someone assaulting her than those girls in their long white dresses are at fault for their pastor raping them in a church. It’s not their fault. It’s not their fault! It IS NOT.

whoa whoa whoa... you don't allow public social media posts, but you have no limits on actual public behavior? hmmm...

Well “no limits” is unfair, I only said I wouldn’t die on the hill of the cheeky bikinis if the pool allows them. But yeah it makes total sense to me to have more freedom for in person, where the pool of potential predators is smaller, than sm where they are all over the country sorting and scanning and casting 1000 nets.

But I mean, as far as safety I’m always aware that a coach or another parent or a teacher or someone else we know is the biggest risk and again, I don’t see full coverage bikinis as an important strategy for combatting that. And I think shaming girls for wanting to wear them makes that kind of attack MORE likely, because shame and shaming about sexuality is a huge way those predators control young victims.

[Anonymous]

Somehow male swimmers don't have to wear thongs or show their butts to swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cheeky has been revolutionary for competitive swimmers and water polo players who don't want the fabric drag OR the fuss of picking a wedgie. I would have worn one on swim team.

There's a difference between a swimmer at a swim event wearing something that helps them with competition, and your daughter going to the pool in something far skimpier than that. I wouldn't love the swimming thing, but it's SUPPOSED to be a focused and non-sexual context—you can have a reasonable expectation that people are not viewing you for your sexual attractiveness and photo-taking and staring is strongly discouraged.

Public pools and instagram are none of those things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe we have this debate every week over a few inches of skin.

Nearly all swim suits in our culture, even the modest ones, even my one piece with cap sleeves, are form fitting and show a lot of skin. You can still see my butt cheeks even though they’re mostly covered. They show the contours of the body and allow one to easily imagine what an individual looks like naked.

Guess what? Unless the teen girls are wearing burkinis, they’re getting male sexual attention. The dads are trying to avert their eyes. The teen boys (and some teen girl peers) are noting who has the great t*ts and big butts and talking about it with their friends. The lecherous pervs are taking mental pictures to crank their hog to later. And someone who aims to sexually assault a teen girl will not be stopped by a more modest swimsuit. It’s just not how it works. Thong, bikini, hipster, it doesn’t matter. Teen girls, in swimsuits or otherwise, get male attention with their bodies. That’s just how the world works.

And the only ones who are judging a teen over whether her whole cheek is out or just part of it are other women, mostly unhappy and middle aged, and maybe a few mean teen girls.

If a one-piece with cap sleeves is as sexually alluring why does anyone bother with a thong? Because it's not true.

And we're not taking about lecherous pervs taking mental pictures, we're talking about lecherous pervs taking actual pictures, and we're taking about a highly toxic teen male culture which is already horrifically objectifying of women—it's no crime to wear a thong, but advising your daughter to not encourage the Junior Andrew Tates of the world is sensible. Because there are lots of them. He and his acolytes are disgusting losers, but you can't pretend they don't exist.

The woman that get assaulted and graped more than any in the world wear burkas

What woman wear is what woman wear. Do nude beaches have more SA's? - nope.

This has nothing to do with woman and everything to do with raising boys to decent men. But when we have moms here saying these girls are asking for it or asking to be looked at, miss the ENTIRE point. They are bathing suits. Girls wear trends. No teen is going to wear a mommy suit and it has nothing to do with teen boys. They follow their friend's and their trends.

It is the moms judging their teen girls that allow this victim mentality and the mom of teen boys who say the girls are abc because of what they wear

+1
The people opposed seem to be 2 categories
-jealous
-perverts themselves who need girls to cover themselves so they don’t do/think something inappropriate about children

Yes, you're right. The only people who have a problem with teens going nearly naked in public is perverts... you win that one! Guess what? There are lots of perverts.

When they admit on this site that they’re attracted to children, yes. They literally say that kids shouldn’t wear these because THEY PERSONALLY think inappropriate thoughts about young girls. Expecting women and girls to police themselves to ‘help’ this pervert stop being a pervert.
Perverts gonna pervert. Stop blaming women and girls for that.

So, let's try a different tack... is there ANYTHING you think it's inappropriate for a teen girl to do in public?

[Anonymous]

I have noticed lately that "kids these days" seem to think they are entitled to privacy and control over their image (and distribution of their image) even when they are in public. Whether it should or should not be true, it certainly is not true, and I do think it's worth teaching kids that fact and making clear that anything they do in public is essentially available for public consumption.

My daughter thought I was being deeply dramatic when she first started texting and I told her that she should never text anything to anyone that she wouldn't send to me/her teachers/etc. But you can't control things once you put them out into the world, and she has certainly since learned that firsthand with the texting (I warned her!).

So I don't know how convincing it is, but worth mentioning as part of this conversation those unavoidable risks — that an image ends up somewhere creepy, that a wardrobe malfunction lives forever on tiktok, etc. Though to be honest this is again not really determined by style of swimsuit — I think we have all seen collections of images of volleyball players or gymnasts or divers or runners or whoever in the perfectly standard uniform of their sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread just makes me think about that horrible Warren Jeffs documentary.

Except the teen girls people are trying to exploit are trapped in a cult, they're posting their exploitation on Instagram.

well, you and I have extremely different views on where the exploitation starts and ends.

You're... okay with it? Because I'm not.

We don’t allow public social media posts of any kind. If you think predators only go after teen girls if they post skimpy bikini photos, I think that’s very, very naive. I think predators will use SM to pursue girls even if all their photos are in turtlenecks, and I’m not going to teach my daughter that she is responsible for someone exploiting her image if she decides to post it against my will. It’s gross and we can try to avoid it for safety, but it’s NOT HER FAULT. and it’s not shameful! and it’s okay if she doesn’t always manage to recognize and vanquish all the misogyny that might have colored her own motivations to wear whatever. That doesn’t make her any more responsible for someone assaulting her than those girls in their long white dresses are at fault for their pastor raping them in a church. It’s not their fault. It’s not their fault! It IS NOT.

whoa whoa whoa... you don't allow public social media posts, but you have no limits on actual public behavior? hmmm...

Well “no limits” is unfair, I only said I wouldn’t die on the hill of the cheeky bikinis if the pool allows them. But yeah it makes total sense to me to have more freedom for in person, where the pool of potential predators is smaller, than sm where they are all over the country sorting and scanning and casting 1000 nets.

But I mean, as far as safety I’m always aware that a coach or another parent or a teacher or someone else we know is the biggest risk and again, I don’t see full coverage bikinis as an important strategy for combatting that. And I think shaming girls for wanting to wear them makes that kind of attack MORE likely, because shame and shaming about sexuality is a huge way those predators control young victims.

I think we disagree on the limit, but I think we agree on the concept that there's a time and a place for things. I would not love it, but would be fine if my DD wore a thong at our house when she has her friends over and has a firm understanding about the importance of not posting things... a public pool would be a bit much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheeky has been revolutionary for competitive swimmers and water polo players who don't want the fabric drag OR the fuss of picking a wedgie. I would have worn one on swim team.

There's a difference between a swimmer at a swim event wearing something that helps them with competition, and your daughter going to the pool in something far skimpier than that. I wouldn't love the swimming thing, but it's SUPPOSED to be a focused and non-sexual context—you can have a reasonable expectation that people are not viewing you for your sexual attractiveness and photo-taking and staring is strongly discouraged.

Public pools and instagram are none of those things.

Those are good points. And I mean I would have worn one on swim team in college. It was serious swim after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed lately that "kids these days" seem to think they are entitled to privacy and control over their image (and distribution of their image) even when they are in public. Whether it should or should not be true, it certainly is not true, and I do think it's worth teaching kids that fact and making clear that anything they do in public is essentially available for public consumption.

My daughter thought I was being deeply dramatic when she first started texting and I told her that she should never text anything to anyone that she wouldn't send to me/her teachers/etc. But you can't control things once you put them out into the world, and she has certainly since learned that firsthand with the texting (I warned her!).

So I don't know how convincing it is, but worth mentioning as part of this conversation those unavoidable risks — that an image ends up somewhere creepy, that a wardrobe malfunction lives forever on tiktok, etc. Though to be honest this is again not really determined by style of swimsuit — I think we have all seen collections of images of volleyball players or gymnasts or divers or runners or whoever in the perfectly standard uniform of their sports.

I think a minimum of this understanding is required. YOu are not in control of your image or what people will do with it, or how people view you, so consider your choices carefully.