Jennifer Crumbley found guilty. Hope this opens the door for prosecuting parents for their children's violent crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

Did you also have hallucinations and homicidal thoughts that you disclosed to your parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

Giving a CHILD a LETHAL WEAPON is wrong, you idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the guilty sentence was deserved. I live in DC. I would like to see parents of all the children carjacking and murdering also charged. The only hope of the U.S. is for us to demand better, more stable, more engaged parenting. Schools can't solve it all.

Major mistake. There was no way to know he would shoot up the school. Hopefully this will be reversed on appeal. I doubt this judge will throw the verdict out but she should.

No it was not a major mistake. It was a negligent parent who ignored many signs that there were problems with her child. She willfully disdained paying attention because she was more interested in her own life.

When he was 8, his parents would leave him along for hours, going out eating and drinking.
He told her he was hallucinating. He texted asking for help. She didn't even respond.
Several times he texted her, but she frequently ignored his texts to spend time with her horses or going out with her AP.
She paid more attention to her horses and her swinging lifestyle than she did to her child.
Her child had multiple incidents at school. She never attended any parent-teacher conferences to talk about his progress, lack thereof, or behavior in school.
Her son's only friend moved away. She did nothing.
Child was isolated, withdrawn and had no friends. She never spoke with him, but instead of talking with him to evaluate his mental state, they bought him a gun.
Yes, her husband was responsible for gun safety, but she never ever paid enough attention to learn where the combination was or to check that it was still on the factory setting of 000
On the day of the killing spree, she was called in to work, saw a very disturbing drawing by her son, and then insisted she couldn't take him home or work on getting him medical treatment, she had to go back to work, despite her boss testifying that they had a very lax workplace and she could have brought him back to work or taken the rest of the day off with a phone call. But she insisted that if the school would not let him go back to class, that he would have to walk home alone and be home alone without anyone.
She saw the horrifying drawing that included the gun that they had given him 4 days before and didn't think to ask him if he had the gun or tell the school he had such a gun.

It was not a major mistake. She was grossly negligent as a parent and that was why she was rightly convicted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

If the kid goes on to kill someone with that gun, the parent should 100% be responsible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

Did you also have hallucinations and homicidal thoughts that you disclosed to your parents?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still dumbfounded how the murderer's parents were not charged i the Sandy Hook shooting. It's infuriating.

These shootings nearly never occur in a vacuum, and both parents are responsible for not taking warning signs seriously.

So many parents abdicate responsibility by thinking their son could never go these lengths. The denial is massive, and I'm sure there are some parents on DCUM who are denial about their kids issues.

The shooter in Sandy Hook killed his mom first. He was, also, not a minor. That was such a horrible day.

You are right he was 20. His father was still alive when the shooting happened and he should have been held civilly accountable. He knew what was going on in that house. No excuses. The mother got what she deserved. Zero empathy for them only for the living brother of Adam.

Also, any supporter of Alex Jones can F off. You complete and utter subhuman monsters.

Virginia Tech shooter was not a minor either however I firmly believe his parents, VT and Fairfax counties schools all should have been held civilly accountable as well.

Personal responsiblity is one thing for an adult neither of these cases happened in a vaccum. Both could have been prevented.

Why have empathy for Adam Lanza's older brother who was an adult and surely knew as much as his father about the living situation in the house? Why isn't he "civilly accountable"? How about aunts, uncles, cousins, family friends? The reality is that it is too bad Adam Lanza didn't die by suicide before taking the lives of others. These are complicated situations made difficult by laws that make it extremely hard to get help for adult family members who are suffering from mental health issues and are not cooperative with treatment regimes. Adam Lanza is an extreme case. I read the state of CT's report. I don't think anybody could have helped him. I agree with you that his mother never should have had a gun in the house (that is not complicated). She paid for that mistake.

DP. I don't know how you can attempt to draw a parallel between Lanza's brother and dad.

The dad, at some point, was responsible for Adam for the overwhelming majority of his life. Parents are responsible for their children and the people they choose to bring into this world. At no point are siblings responsible for their siblings.

And at some point in Lanza's 18 o 20 years, I'm sure there were a ton of signs that the dad ignored or decided weren't worth squabbling with his ex over. Of course the dad should be culpable.

Parents are no longer responsible for their kids once they turn 18.

Right. But the dad was responsible for Adam for 9/10th of his life. You can't honestly say that Adam's spiraling began only after he turned 18, and that the dad didn't fail him during those 18 years.

Very good point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

If the kid goes on to kill someone with that gun, the parent should 100% be responsible.

+1 Not a coincidence that this just passed in Michigan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

If the kid goes on to kill someone with that gun, the parent should 100% be responsible.

+1 Not a coincidence that this just passed in Michigan.

Crazy this isn’t the law everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the guilty sentence was deserved. I live in DC. I would like to see parents of all the children carjacking and murdering also charged. The only hope of the U.S. is for us to demand better, more stable, more engaged parenting. Schools can't solve it all.

You can't really think those are analogous? You all are incredible.

Exactly. Obviously, only white parents should be held responsible for their kids’ crimes.

The Black mother of the elementary school boy in VA who shot his teacher was held responsible. It isn’t a race thing, it’s a gun owner thing.

The parents of the DC carjackers should be held accountable if they give their kids guns, which I don’t think is the case. Also most of the carjacking victims haven’t died.

Where do you draw the line? If they didn't give them the guns but gave them $50, is it the parent's fault? What about if they have to work late and aren't home to watch the kid? There is so much gray here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the guilty sentence was deserved. I live in DC. I would like to see parents of all the children carjacking and murdering also charged. The only hope of the U.S. is for us to demand better, more stable, more engaged parenting. Schools can't solve it all.

You can't really think those are analogous? You all are incredible.

Exactly. Obviously, only white parents should be held responsible for their kids’ crimes.

The Black mother of the elementary school boy in VA who shot his teacher was held responsible. It isn’t a race thing, it’s a gun owner thing.

The parents of the DC carjackers should be held accountable if they give their kids guns, which I don’t think is the case. Also most of the carjacking victims haven’t died.

Where do you draw the line? If they didn't give them the guns but gave them $50, is it the parent's fault? What about if they have to work late and aren't home to watch the kid? There is so much gray here.

.

DP. Why does there need to be a line? As you said, it’s a gray area. Judge on a case by case basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sandy Hook mom should've made him living with her past 18 contingent upon him receiving mental health treatment and getting a part time job. He refused all human interaction to the point he would only communicate with his mother through email. She would leave his meals at his door while he rotted away in his bedroom on his computer all day. She enabled him to not seek treatment by providing him a free, comfortable place he could stay sick in.

x100000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

JC did nothing, in fact she put her head in the sand, checked out, and continued her life as if her child wasn't crying out for help, continuously. If only there was a way to control who has kids just to check boxes, and kids who are genuinely wanted. It is unfair to unleash their wrath on everyone else.

[Anonymous]

I've been thinking about this case a lot. By all accounts, the woman was a terrible parent and made really awful choices. I don't disagree that she abdicated her responsibilities and bears some blame for what happened.

BUT. I invite you to read the special needs forum. There are many parents that do mean well and still seem to be throwing their hands up. And I get that. Mental illness is not something you plan for as a parent. You can have the best intentions and get lost along the way - I don't know, end up escaping the daily pain and grind by seeking out affairs and risky behavior?

I am so lucky I've not had to go through this. But I think we have entered a really really slippery slope with this verdict. Think of the civil litigation this will enable if a kid punches another on the playground, or if a minor drinks alcohol at home and kills someone with their parents' car. Where does the liability end?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get a mentally ill teen -especially one over 18 “committed?” Where are these magical institutions that have beds available because I think my legally adult teen might be violent? Are they for adults or kids? If they are not state-run, I assume they can just check themselves AMA if they want? If not, who’s paying for it? Does the person’s right to freedom disappear if I am afraid they might commit a crime? Why hold Adam Lanza’s father responsible when he had to no ability to change the circumstances of his son’s condition? Was he supposed to forcibly imprison his son? Slip him an un prescribed medication? Smother him with a pillow? What’s the degree of responsibility for another person’s actions?

This is different. JC was living with her child. They had custody of a minor child, and they gave that child a GUN.

I know a family with a violent child. He was adopted. He is crazy, and the parents have moved mountains to help him. The child may end up in jail or worse. It is NOT the parents' fault. They have another adopted child who is healthy and a very sweet person.

But JC was a horror. She did nothing to help her child. She didn't even notice that her child was mentally ill. She is a sick woman.

Excuse me. What is wrong with giving a kid a gun? Just because you don’t hear does not mean it is odd or unusual. I am from a rural area and got my first rifle at 12.

If the kid goes on to kill someone with that gun, the parent should 100% be responsible.

+1 Not a coincidence that this just passed in Michigan.

And that law ONLY passed because of a Dem legislature and Dem governor. This would not happen in a red state.