What is it with people given childless couples unsolicited fertility advice?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm 36 and husband is 34. We got married four years ago and still have no children because our financial situation isn't great at the moment. When people learn we're childless, they start making comments about how I shouldn't delay motherhood or at least freeze my eggs. The most infuriating things is that these people aren't even close family members or friends, they're acquaintances or some uncle/cousin I haven't seen in more than 10 years. I let them know that there's no reason to bring up the topic and leave it at that, but there's almost always somebody else who brings it later.

I'm aware that at my age, I might have troubles conceiving, especially if I have undiagnosed fertility issues, but the other option is having a baby that we won't able to support, so we're willing to risk it.

Why are some people so obsessed with the fertility of a couple whose kids they're not gonna raise or financially support?

It’s just something people say because they can’t comprehend why you don’t have children. That said, if you really want kids my advice would be to not wait for the prefect moment. We ended up spending over $100k on IVF and adoption fees.

OP here. Nobody needs to understand anything. If you learn a person doesn't have children is not your place to start giving them fertility advice when you don't even know the reason why the person is childless. I know that IVF is expensive. I also know that if I leave children for later I might not be able to conceive at all. I literally say this in the post you're quoting.

Oh please then don’t spend your Saturday posting about fertility!

Says the person spending their Saturday replying to me.

We are not the ones triggered by fertility discussions.

Seems like you were triggered enough to reply and to even give me advice.

I’m not the one who started a thread on the topic luv. Just giving you some solicited advice.

Not OP, but your advice wasn't solicited at all. OP never asked if she should get pregnant., SHe already knows her answer.

But she also tells people she *wants* kids at some later point in time. At 36. And so poor she still isn’t out of the hole after 4 years of marriage beginning at 32. Her desires are incongruous with reality. Or perhaps she is not being honest with herself, because she can’t actually actively want kids and be on the path she is on.

Maybe she’s so cagey because she’s not being honest with herself. She actually doesn’t want kids, and thinks saying “she’s not financially ready” is the socially (even to herself) acceptable answer.

Even if this is all true, she's not asking for advice!

I think my friend should break up with her partner but she doesn't ask me what I think so I keep my mouth shut.

A good friend will tell her friend the truth, even if it’s only one time, even if she doesn’t ask for it.

A good friend also knows when to shut up.

YES!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw, babies don’t require very much. People are obsessed thinking a baby means a big house, a car, tons of material things. The first year, the biggest expense you actually need is diapers. (Outside of childcare of course.) but people go nuts thinking they need all kinds of things they just don’t.

Daycare can easily cost 15K a year. Moving from a one bedroom apartment to an available two bedroom one can easily be an extra 1K a month. That's already 25K extra a year, not to mention increased bills, reduced working hours if you don't have a 9 to 5 job and need to take care of your child outside that timeframe. Not sure if that's OPs case, but children can easily become a financial disaster if you're not a high earner. People who got help or who make a decent salary relative to their area's cost of living don't seem to realize this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's what people do. If/when you get pregnant, you'll get unsolicited advice then. Look out if you have kids.

I don't know why people do it... they just do. A friend's wife shut it down at a family gathering, asking loudly "why are people so interested in my ovaries?"

OP here. Thanks for a sincere answer that actually addresses the question. I think I need to be a bit more rude with people who ask such questions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I suspect OP is a way oversharer and instead learning to limit the details she shares, she is blaming overs for making small talk. Get over yourself OP

OP already said she doesn't share much about her life, not sure why you'd assume that.

I once had a colleague who asked my age. As soon as I said I was 30 she told me to start thinking about kids. Also had a manager tell me that I should have children even though I told her I wasn't interested. I have a uterine malformation which is severe and unlikely to be corrected with surgery. It's painful how nosy people can be.

The OP bizarrely said she wants kids but cannot afford them at 36, which is what set this thread on fire. I have no doubt she is giving out these details casually, especially with how defensive she is about her financial logic, or she is a troll having a wonderful evening

I didn't give any details either and still got nosy colleagues reminding me of my age. You're seriously underestimating how terrible some people can be. I see nothing wrong with OPs financial logic. She sounds she wants both children and comfort, but can't have both, which is actually very common. It's hard not to be defensive when you made a decision on a topic that's painful and have people basically telling you that your decision is wrong. The only thing I hope is that nobody with similar issues ever posts here.

Dude I am a diabetic and infertile with multiple IVF rounds. I think OP detailed responses show why she is getting this advice

These were detailed responses on an anonymous forum. Do you also go around telling everybody about your condition to people in your life just because you just shared that with me here?

Can't hide the pump at times. Its life. OP is overly defensive

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That's what people do. If/when you get pregnant, you'll get unsolicited advice then. Look out if you have kids.

I don't know why people do it... they just do. A friend's wife shut it down at a family gathering, asking loudly "why are people so interested in my ovaries?"

OP here. Thanks for a sincere answer that actually addresses the question. I think I need to be a bit more rude with people who ask such questions.

Pp you quoted. You know... maybe you do. It might just get the point across. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm 36 and husband is 34. We got married four years ago and still have no children because our financial situation isn't great at the moment. When people learn we're childless, they start making comments about how I shouldn't delay motherhood or at least freeze my eggs. The most infuriating things is that these people aren't even close family members or friends, they're acquaintances or some uncle/cousin I haven't seen in more than 10 years. I let them know that there's no reason to bring up the topic and leave it at that, but there's almost always somebody else who brings it later.

I'm aware that at my age, I might have troubles conceiving, especially if I have undiagnosed fertility issues, but the other option is having a baby that we won't able to support, so we're willing to risk it.

Why are some people so obsessed with the fertility of a couple whose kids they're not gonna raise or financially support?

It’s just something people say because they can’t comprehend why you don’t have children. That said, if you really want kids my advice would be to not wait for the prefect moment. We ended up spending over $100k on IVF and adoption fees.

OP here. Nobody needs to understand anything. If you learn a person doesn't have children is not your place to start giving them fertility advice when you don't even know the reason why the person is childless. I know that IVF is expensive. I also know that if I leave children for later I might not be able to conceive at all. I literally say this in the post you're quoting.

Oh please then don’t spend your Saturday posting about fertility!

Says the person spending their Saturday replying to me.

We are not the ones triggered by fertility discussions.

Seems like you were triggered enough to reply and to even give me advice.

I’m not the one who started a thread on the topic luv. Just giving you some solicited advice.

Not OP, but your advice wasn't solicited at all. OP never asked if she should get pregnant., SHe already knows her answer.

But she also tells people she *wants* kids at some later point in time. At 36. And so poor she still isn’t out of the hole after 4 years of marriage beginning at 32. Her desires are incongruous with reality. Or perhaps she is not being honest with herself, because she can’t actually actively want kids and be on the path she is on.

Maybe she’s so cagey because she’s not being honest with herself. She actually doesn’t want kids, and thinks saying “she’s not financially ready” is the socially (even to herself) acceptable answer.

You seem to be living in a bubble. Most people aren't making anywhere close to a six figure income. An individual salary of less than 60K is actually average across the country. This is not a hole for most Americans, this is their reality. Wanting two things at the same time, a comfortable lifestyle and children, and not being able to have them both isn't dishonesty. She already mentioned she wants kids but is willing to risk not having them, and that the only thing she wanted to know is why people are so nosy. You are the one making assumptions about OP because you seen unable to leave your bubble or to think in a way that's not black and white, which comes as both ignorant and extremely arrogant.

It is when you’re 36, sorry, but it is. Of course there is nuance involved and not black and white. A 26 year old can honestly want the bolded, a 36 year old is if not dishonest, totally oblivious to the facts of the situation. And if she’s willing to take suc a huge risk, the honest answer would be that having kids isn’t all that important. Which, if it’s nobody’s business, she doesn’t have to tell. Who cares why people are nosy? You gotta deal with reality as it is.

Here are the median earnings by age group according to BLS: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-age/
It's 63,596 for those in the 35-44 age range. If OP is in the high 50s she's still within the average range statistically, so yes, you're living in a bubble.
Now let me ask you, if you see yourself in a situation where you're both hungry and thirsty but only have enough money for either food or water, does that mean that one of them isn't important? No it simply means that you are constrained and need to make a choice, but you're unaware of this because you're in a bubble and with your head far up your a$$.

[Anonymous]

People give unsolicited fertility advice because they assume that every woman wants children. If a woman is not having children then the assumption she's somehow being led away from motherhood by her ignorance, since as you've seen, women aren't assumed to have enough agency to make decisions about their own reproduction. Therefore, childless women need to hear advice from strangers about their uterus.

I hope that whatever you do, your at peace with your decision. Doesn't matter if you manage to work it out and have the lifestyle you want and children, or remain childless knowing you made the right decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ten pages of mostly advice to a person who made it clear that she's not looking for advice.

Then why is she here? If she is looking for validation she is in the wrong place.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm 36 and husband is 34. We got married four years ago and still have no children because our financial situation isn't great at the moment. When people learn we're childless, they start making comments about how I shouldn't delay motherhood or at least freeze my eggs. The most infuriating things is that these people aren't even close family members or friends, they're acquaintances or some uncle/cousin I haven't seen in more than 10 years. I let them know that there's no reason to bring up the topic and leave it at that, but there's almost always somebody else who brings it later.

I'm aware that at my age, I might have troubles conceiving, especially if I have undiagnosed fertility issues, but the other option is having a baby that we won't able to support, so we're willing to risk it.

Why are some people so obsessed with the fertility of a couple whose kids they're not gonna raise or financially support?

It’s just something people say because they can’t comprehend why you don’t have children. That said, if you really want kids my advice would be to not wait for the prefect moment. We ended up spending over $100k on IVF and adoption fees.

OP here. Nobody needs to understand anything. If you learn a person doesn't have children is not your place to start giving them fertility advice when you don't even know the reason why the person is childless. I know that IVF is expensive. I also know that if I leave children for later I might not be able to conceive at all. I literally say this in the post you're quoting.

Oh please then don’t spend your Saturday posting about fertility!

Says the person spending their Saturday replying to me.

We are not the ones triggered by fertility discussions.

Seems like you were triggered enough to reply and to even give me advice.

I’m not the one who started a thread on the topic luv. Just giving you some solicited advice.

Not OP, but your advice wasn't solicited at all. OP never asked if she should get pregnant., SHe already knows her answer.

But she also tells people she *wants* kids at some later point in time. At 36. And so poor she still isn’t out of the hole after 4 years of marriage beginning at 32. Her desires are incongruous with reality. Or perhaps she is not being honest with herself, because she can’t actually actively want kids and be on the path she is on.

Maybe she’s so cagey because she’s not being honest with herself. She actually doesn’t want kids, and thinks saying “she’s not financially ready” is the socially (even to herself) acceptable answer.

You seem to be living in a bubble. Most people aren't making anywhere close to a six figure income. An individual salary of less than 60K is actually average across the country. This is not a hole for most Americans, this is their reality. Wanting two things at the same time, a comfortable lifestyle and children, and not being able to have them both isn't dishonesty. She already mentioned she wants kids but is willing to risk not having them, and that the only thing she wanted to know is why people are so nosy. You are the one making assumptions about OP because you seen unable to leave your bubble or to think in a way that's not black and white, which comes as both ignorant and extremely arrogant.

It is when you’re 36, sorry, but it is. Of course there is nuance involved and not black and white. A 26 year old can honestly want the bolded, a 36 year old is if not dishonest, totally oblivious to the facts of the situation. And if she’s willing to take suc a huge risk, the honest answer would be that having kids isn’t all that important. Which, if it’s nobody’s business, she doesn’t have to tell. Who cares why people are nosy? You gotta deal with reality as it is.

Here are the median earnings by age group according to BLS: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-age/
It's 63,596 for those in the 35-44 age range. If OP is in the high 50s she's still within the average range statistically, so yes, you're living in a bubble.
Now let me ask you, if you see yourself in a situation where you're both hungry and thirsty but only have enough money for either food or water, does that mean that one of them isn't important? No it simply means that you are constrained and need to make a choice, but you're unaware of this because you're in a bubble and with your head far up your a$$.

But the fixed constraint is on the fertility side, not the salary side. You can always make more money, and by your reasoning she already has greater than the median income since her DH makes the same amount, but your natural fertility window is fixed. If you are choosing money over kids, perhaps people who have been there done that know from experience (over OP’s theory) that you don’t have to make that choice. That’s all they’re doing by telling you that, and you’re free to do with that information what you want.

A good therapist will tell you boundaries are for yourself, ie. you have to put up boundaries around what *you* will and will not do. Trying to control the behavior of others is an exercise in futility.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ten pages of mostly advice to a person who made it clear that she's not looking for advice.

Then why is she here? If she is looking for validation she is in the wrong place.

She is asking why people lack manners.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm 36 and husband is 34. We got married four years ago and still have no children because our financial situation isn't great at the moment. When people learn we're childless, they start making comments about how I shouldn't delay motherhood or at least freeze my eggs. The most infuriating things is that these people aren't even close family members or friends, they're acquaintances or some uncle/cousin I haven't seen in more than 10 years. I let them know that there's no reason to bring up the topic and leave it at that, but there's almost always somebody else who brings it later.

I'm aware that at my age, I might have troubles conceiving, especially if I have undiagnosed fertility issues, but the other option is having a baby that we won't able to support, so we're willing to risk it.

Why are some people so obsessed with the fertility of a couple whose kids they're not gonna raise or financially support?

It’s just something people say because they can’t comprehend why you don’t have children. That said, if you really want kids my advice would be to not wait for the prefect moment. We ended up spending over $100k on IVF and adoption fees.

OP here. Nobody needs to understand anything. If you learn a person doesn't have children is not your place to start giving them fertility advice when you don't even know the reason why the person is childless. I know that IVF is expensive. I also know that if I leave children for later I might not be able to conceive at all. I literally say this in the post you're quoting.

Oh please then don’t spend your Saturday posting about fertility!

Says the person spending their Saturday replying to me.

We are not the ones triggered by fertility discussions.

Seems like you were triggered enough to reply and to even give me advice.

I’m not the one who started a thread on the topic luv. Just giving you some solicited advice.

Not OP, but your advice wasn't solicited at all. OP never asked if she should get pregnant., SHe already knows her answer.

But she also tells people she *wants* kids at some later point in time. At 36. And so poor she still isn’t out of the hole after 4 years of marriage beginning at 32. Her desires are incongruous with reality. Or perhaps she is not being honest with herself, because she can’t actually actively want kids and be on the path she is on.

Maybe she’s so cagey because she’s not being honest with herself. She actually doesn’t want kids, and thinks saying “she’s not financially ready” is the socially (even to herself) acceptable answer.

You seem to be living in a bubble. Most people aren't making anywhere close to a six figure income. An individual salary of less than 60K is actually average across the country. This is not a hole for most Americans, this is their reality. Wanting two things at the same time, a comfortable lifestyle and children, and not being able to have them both isn't dishonesty. She already mentioned she wants kids but is willing to risk not having them, and that the only thing she wanted to know is why people are so nosy. You are the one making assumptions about OP because you seen unable to leave your bubble or to think in a way that's not black and white, which comes as both ignorant and extremely arrogant.

It is when you’re 36, sorry, but it is. Of course there is nuance involved and not black and white. A 26 year old can honestly want the bolded, a 36 year old is if not dishonest, totally oblivious to the facts of the situation. And if she’s willing to take suc a huge risk, the honest answer would be that having kids isn’t all that important. Which, if it’s nobody’s business, she doesn’t have to tell. Who cares why people are nosy? You gotta deal with reality as it is.

Here are the median earnings by age group according to BLS: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-age/
It's 63,596 for those in the 35-44 age range. If OP is in the high 50s she's still within the average range statistically, so yes, you're living in a bubble.
Now let me ask you, if you see yourself in a situation where you're both hungry and thirsty but only have enough money for either food or water, does that mean that one of them isn't important? No it simply means that you are constrained and need to make a choice, but you're unaware of this because you're in a bubble and with your head far up your a$$.

But the fixed constraint is on the fertility side, not the salary side. You can always make more money, and by your reasoning she already has greater than the median income since her DH makes the same amount, but your natural fertility window is fixed. If you are choosing money over kids, perhaps people who have been there done that know from experience (over OP’s theory) that you don’t have to make that choice. That’s all they’re doing by telling you that, and you’re free to do with that information what you want.

A good therapist will tell you boundaries are for yourself, ie. you have to put up boundaries around what *you* will and will not do. Trying to control the behavior of others is an exercise in futility.

63K refers to individual earnings before taxes. It's below average if we're talking about household income. Childcare can easily cost 15K a year. We have no idea if OP/her partner are salaried workers or if they work by the hour and lack a fixed schedule, which could make daycare more expensive and even unavailable at times. Add to this the potential cost of housing if they have to move to a bigger more expensive condo/house. This often leads to one of the parents having to quit their job. I know because I have many friends in the situation I describe. Having a whole family living on less than 60K can leave you very vulnerable if there's an emergency.

Income ceiling is also a thing. 60K is as much as you can make in many fields. That's why you don't see much variation in the median income after you enter the 35+ age bracket. At this point you're likely hit a ceiling and an increase in salary will require further education. There are exceptions in certain fields where your salary keeps growing, but this fields also tend to have median salaries that are above 60K. Many of the people giving the advice to disregard her financial situation might be absolutely unaware of OPs circumstances and come off as arrogant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s small talk, honestly. People like to give advice. You shouldn’t take it so personal. We’ve been infertile for years now and people’s advice just rolls off my back like a duck at this point.

If I could give you advice, I’d tell you now is the time to think about your fertility rather than later, too. But I promise, I’m not obsessed with you.

I would have to disagree that this topic would be considered “small” talk due to the very personal nature.

Especially by people not even close to you.

Their unsolicited advice here is very rude as well as very intrusive. 😠

[Anonymous]

Posters here are so out of touch. People with OP's household income and less, which is around what half of the US population is at, are not counting on IVF. You gotta be privileged to postpone pregnancy because you think you can always get IVF/egg donors/surrogate/adoption. Us average folks don't think like that. When we choose money over pregnancy we're well aware that when infertility hits us it'll be it.

[Anonymous]

OP I agree it's annoying. People are so stupid that's all it is.

[Anonymous]

Looks like most of the posters telling OP to think about her fertility are having fertility issues themselves, which is unfortunate. However, being infertile doesn't give you the right to dictate another person's priority in regards to pregnancy. Some people want children but not enough to make massive lifestyle changes. It all comes off as if they think that OP's acceptance of her potential infertility invalidades their own decision to put massive amounts of money in fertility treatments. Some people don't experience infertility as this huge tragedy and they're truly able to move on when natural pregnancy doesn't happen.