Think twice before hiring an advocate…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If school staff met kids needs parents and advocates would not need to step in to advocate. Our principal was a huge bully as was the special education teacher. They did not get my child. Some teachers tried and went above and beyond, but most didn’t get our child. The principal would scream at us about things in our iep meetings that made no sense acting like we were dumb and had no clue. We had our child in many many hours of private services starting at age two, multiple private evaluations, which we gave them. Our private therapists reached out multiple times to school staff to coordinate services and school staff refused to meet with them. They tried to bully us onto a false school diagnosis so they could keep their special education teachers but would not offer more services based off the diagnosis. In hindsight I should have hired an advocate but instead we walked away from the useless iep that they did not follow and was recycled from another child, whose name was in it with multiple careless mistakes and continued in private services. In the end our efforts paid off without school help but most people cannot or will not do what we did nor would that work for the majority of kids.

People like op need to be fired. No services are sometimes better than bad services, which really hurt my child as they were pulled out of class for groups that did not work on my child’s needs but focused on other higher needs kids.

Op, not being cold, but staffing issues are not parents problems. Other kids are not our problem too. We want all kids to get the help they need but as parents our focus is getting our kids the help they need so they can be successful now and in the future.

And, thank you to the amazing teachers and staff who do go above and beyond to help our kids be successful. Don’t think for a moment we don’t see what you do but sometimes parents are just trying to survive and things like a simple thank you get forgotten, especially when we hit that stage in life with our kids, aging parents, work and our own health issues.

I’d encourage any parent who can afford it to get an advocate. It’s very hard going into meetings where the focus is to get out of helping vs helping.

I have never experienced this in FCPS. I have worked with wonderful, caring, professional, intelligent, accountable, staff. I believe that there are bad apples out there. But the OP said a family had an advocate for a team tjhey have never met before. Many families come with an advocate or an attorney to an initial referrral or meeting. They have no trust or respect and aren't assuming good will. OP said "assume good will." Families are never assuming positive intent of staff anymore. This is why staff don't want to work for FCPS.

And yes- you should care about other kids. You should care about staff. It IS your problem. It DOES affect your child and all children and the future of our country. You are responsible to more than just your child.

You wrote "the focus is to get out of helping vs helping." I have never once experienced that or seen that by FCPS staff. I have seen many families expect special education services for their children who do not meet DOE requirements, and get mad at FCPS or a school for following DOE guidelines, and it goes to battle with an advocate until FCPS gives in to make the battle and hostility stop.

Why would staff, and you, assume parents who come with an advocate don't have good will? Why would you and schools staff not recognize that navigating special education is an area very few parents have expertise in and value the input of an advisor to help them navigate/interpret the processes, evaluations and goal setting?

How is have an advocate for IEP meetins any different than having a doula attend to you during childbirth? Don't you trust the doctors and nurses? Don't you assume good will? Or, did you hear enough about the challenging experiences others may have had a feel better knowing that you've got someone looking out for and advocating for your interests?

I challenge your assertion that teachers don't want to for FCPS because of parents. They don't want to work with FCPS because they are under-resourced and under-supported. Focus your blame on where it's deserved.

This. My only regret is not hiring an advocate. But I knew the services were so bad from what we did have the money was better spent on private services vs an advocate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I totally get it and have been there. It's unbelievably stressful when you are subpoenaed over a student you've never met and have to spend multiple hours of your school day in IEP meetings being bullied by advocates and lawyers with tape recorders while you should be working with your actual students. Mind you that you then have to find time to makeup the service hours you missed while you sat in these awful meetings. Again for a student you've never met. It's an awful. Happened years ago and it's still painful to think about. These things really happen and the school provides very little support to the teachers/ staff when it does.

I’m a school psychologist who posted earlier on this thread. I had one meeting which caused me to call out sick the next day and contemplate quitting. I was accused of fabricating my results and “never actually meeting the child”. This was so patently untrue that it didn’t upset me. But later, the advocate turned to the parent after I fumbled over my words after being asked the same question ten ways and said “and THIS is why you got an outside evaluation”. They also mentioned that the child couldn’t have possibly opened up to me because “I have an unfriendly face”. It really, really hurt me. I have my PhD and could easily work outside of the school setting. But I chose to work in our school system because I really believed in it. I’m back at it and not letting advocates rattle me as much- but it was truly offensive and unprofessional. I also changed schools where admin would have my back more.

I can appreciate and sympathize with your feelings - I suspect most parents can since we have frequently discussed how we have to take the entire day off work when there's an IEP meeting because we're too wrung out from regulating our emotions in our personal life to attend to our professional responsibilities. Have you not seen the posts about how wretched we feel when we're unable to contain our tears at IEP meetings?

I'm the PP who said I am what FCPS has wrought. My youngest is now a senior in HS. When they were in ES, I had to file 2 state complaints and a civil rights complaint to get the 2 of my kids with IEPs appropriate support/services. Looking back, I did exactly what I needed to do. I was right. FCPS was wrong and had I allowed them to do what they proposed, my kids with IEPs would not have graduated with standard diplomas. My older DC would not have been able to choose to go to college. My younger DC with an IEP would have been in a low functioning classroom when he's capable of at least "average" achievement.

I recognize that my DCs are not as needy as some, are minorities and consume scarce resources. Your frustration should be directed at the school system and federal government for not providing sufficient resources not parents doing their best for their kids.

To the psychologist- I understand and have shared your experiences. I have only worked with one advocate who was professional, respectful, and worked towards a common goal. Every other advocate or private therapist expresses contempt, disgust, and disrespect. They do not respect the FCPS staff professional experience or opinion, nor are they familiar with special education law or services. Almost ALL families I have worked with who had an advocate were consumed with anger and denial, and lack of understanding or acceptance for federal law. There is no trust or respect to the school staff, even when the school is (SHOCKINGLY!!) good and doing the right thing. I'm sorry for the families who have had a bad experience, but I've only worked with great professionals who are making appropriate recommendations and following federal law. These upset families spread bad word and create a culture of distrust, "us" versus "them," and "fight" for your rights. It is unacceptable for advocates or families to demean FCPS staff. I have been cussed at, yelled at, and worse by families. But I have never seen an FCPS staff cuss or yell, give dirty looks, or blatantly insult a parent or advocate directly to their face. Double standard, no? I also have wasted hours in meetings listening to an advocate say the same thing over and over again for hours and refusing to hear or accept the other side.

To parents- as soon as you bring an advocate or request to record a meeting, you send a message to the staff that you do not trust them, you do not agree with their professional recommendations, you do not think they have the best interest of your child, and you intend to take legal action against them no matter what. The staff will not feel comfortable speaking to you via email or without an administrator present, and will not be likely to share the candid stories and details that we like to share...for fear of getting sued, reported to the DOE, or criticized so harshly. I am not saying that schools are not required to follow law or do their jobs. I am saying that in my experience, the staff is following the law and doing their jobs- you just do not like it, or are angry or in denial. Or you expect a public school system to operate in a way that is not logistically possible with the staff available. Don't say "get more staff." There is not more staff and they don't want to work for FCPS, primarily because families are never happy no matter what FCPS does. Parents can contact the FCPS special education ombudsman and the procedural support liaison for support- advocates aren't the only option to ensure processes are being followed appropriately.

To advocates- again I have worked with only one advocate who genuinely cared about the student and worked toward a positive outcome. Others have a personal agenda to make money, make a name for themselves, or use your case for a professional mission to advance their career. Advaocats can choose to be professional and collaborate and still advocate. You can show respect for other professionals, even if you disagree. You can use a professional voice, face, and words. It is not acceptable for advocates (or parents) to attack FCPS staff at meetings, even if there is disagreement.

I hope that families and staff can get to a point with some trust and respect.

We did not have an advocate and the teachers and therapists and guidance counselor would not speak to us or our private therapists. You are making excuses for poor behavior. Our experience was terrible. I should have pulled my child but we could not afford private and private therapies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a SN kid on the spectrum and I never met teachers or principals or whatever who didn't support the needs of our kid. But I met a lot of parents who just handed over their child fom day one to a nanny or to daycare and never lift a finger to educate their kid themselfes. They expect the school to handle everything for them and solve all the behavioral issues of their kid but refuse to make their own homework.

This is clearly a teacher troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I totally get it and have been there. It's unbelievably stressful when you are subpoenaed over a student you've never met and have to spend multiple hours of your school day in IEP meetings being bullied by advocates and lawyers with tape recorders while you should be working with your actual students. Mind you that you then have to find time to makeup the service hours you missed while you sat in these awful meetings. Again for a student you've never met. It's an awful. Happened years ago and it's still painful to think about. These things really happen and the school provides very little support to the teachers/ staff when it does.

I’m a school psychologist who posted earlier on this thread. I had one meeting which caused me to call out sick the next day and contemplate quitting. I was accused of fabricating my results and “never actually meeting the child”. This was so patently untrue that it didn’t upset me. But later, the advocate turned to the parent after I fumbled over my words after being asked the same question ten ways and said “and THIS is why you got an outside evaluation”. They also mentioned that the child couldn’t have possibly opened up to me because “I have an unfriendly face”. It really, really hurt me. I have my PhD and could easily work outside of the school setting. But I chose to work in our school system because I really believed in it. I’m back at it and not letting advocates rattle me as much- but it was truly offensive and unprofessional. I also changed schools where admin would have my back more.

I can appreciate and sympathize with your feelings - I suspect most parents can since we have frequently discussed how we have to take the entire day off work when there's an IEP meeting because we're too wrung out from regulating our emotions in our personal life to attend to our professional responsibilities. Have you not seen the posts about how wretched we feel when we're unable to contain our tears at IEP meetings?

I'm the PP who said I am what FCPS has wrought. My youngest is now a senior in HS. When they were in ES, I had to file 2 state complaints and a civil rights complaint to get the 2 of my kids with IEPs appropriate support/services. Looking back, I did exactly what I needed to do. I was right. FCPS was wrong and had I allowed them to do what they proposed, my kids with IEPs would not have graduated with standard diplomas. My older DC would not have been able to choose to go to college. My younger DC with an IEP would have been in a low functioning classroom when he's capable of at least "average" achievement.

I recognize that my DCs are not as needy as some, are minorities and consume scarce resources. Your frustration should be directed at the school system and federal government for not providing sufficient resources not parents doing their best for their kids.

To the psychologist- I understand and have shared your experiences. I have only worked with one advocate who was professional, respectful, and worked towards a common goal. Every other advocate or private therapist expresses contempt, disgust, and disrespect. They do not respect the FCPS staff professional experience or opinion, nor are they familiar with special education law or services. Almost ALL families I have worked with who had an advocate were consumed with anger and denial, and lack of understanding or acceptance for federal law. There is no trust or respect to the school staff, even when the school is (SHOCKINGLY!!) good and doing the right thing. I'm sorry for the families who have had a bad experience, but I've only worked with great professionals who are making appropriate recommendations and following federal law. These upset families spread bad word and create a culture of distrust, "us" versus "them," and "fight" for your rights. It is unacceptable for advocates or families to demean FCPS staff. I have been cussed at, yelled at, and worse by families. But I have never seen an FCPS staff cuss or yell, give dirty looks, or blatantly insult a parent or advocate directly to their face. Double standard, no? I also have wasted hours in meetings listening to an advocate say the same thing over and over again for hours and refusing to hear or accept the other side.

To parents- as soon as you bring an advocate or request to record a meeting, you send a message to the staff that you do not trust them, you do not agree with their professional recommendations, you do not think they have the best interest of your child, and you intend to take legal action against them no matter what. The staff will not feel comfortable speaking to you via email or without an administrator present, and will not be likely to share the candid stories and details that we like to share...for fear of getting sued, reported to the DOE, or criticized so harshly. I am not saying that schools are not required to follow law or do their jobs. I am saying that in my experience, the staff is following the law and doing their jobs- you just do not like it, or are angry or in denial. Or you expect a public school system to operate in a way that is not logistically possible with the staff available. Don't say "get more staff." There is not more staff and they don't want to work for FCPS, primarily because families are never happy no matter what FCPS does. Parents can contact the FCPS special education ombudsman and the procedural support liaison for support- advocates aren't the only option to ensure processes are being followed appropriately.

To advocates- again I have worked with only one advocate who genuinely cared about the student and worked toward a positive outcome. Others have a personal agenda to make money, make a name for themselves, or use your case for a professional mission to advance their career. Advaocats can choose to be professional and collaborate and still advocate. You can show respect for other professionals, even if you disagree. You can use a professional voice, face, and words. It is not acceptable for advocates (or parents) to attack FCPS staff at meetings, even if there is disagreement.

I hope that families and staff can get to a point with some trust and respect.

We did not have an advocate and the teachers and therapists and guidance counselor would not speak to us or our private therapists. You are making excuses for poor behavior. Our experience was terrible. I should have pulled my child but we could not afford private and private therapies.

Our experience with FCPS was just terrible as well. It's very clear OP does not think 504s and IEP's are worthwhile because of her "burden". They've given nothing to show that without an advocate things go better. It's more like don't bother. We aren't going to help you either way.

[Anonymous]

I also don't think these teachers have any idea what it is like to have a special ed child. Our school system can barely educate non special ed children. They just aren't equipped to handle special needs children regularly. Those 504 and IEP documents provide so little compared to what is actually needed. It's insane to be sitting there arguing over one item as if it's a make or break it item and think in your head there are 99 other things that my child needs and will never get.

Meanwhile I have a kid without special needs and the teachers are accommodating of him all the time whenever anything is needed. I get personal emails how great he is. They notice things about him. Why? Because they like him. So don't tell me that teachers don't have the time. They just don't want to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If school staff met kids needs parents and advocates would not need to step in to advocate. Our principal was a huge bully as was the special education teacher. They did not get my child. Some teachers tried and went above and beyond, but most didn’t get our child. The principal would scream at us about things in our iep meetings that made no sense acting like we were dumb and had no clue. We had our child in many many hours of private services starting at age two, multiple private evaluations, which we gave them. Our private therapists reached out multiple times to school staff to coordinate services and school staff refused to meet with them. They tried to bully us onto a false school diagnosis so they could keep their special education teachers but would not offer more services based off the diagnosis. In hindsight I should have hired an advocate but instead we walked away from the useless iep that they did not follow and was recycled from another child, whose name was in it with multiple careless mistakes and continued in private services. In the end our efforts paid off without school help but most people cannot or will not do what we did nor would that work for the majority of kids.

People like op need to be fired. No services are sometimes better than bad services, which really hurt my child as they were pulled out of class for groups that did not work on my child’s needs but focused on other higher needs kids.

Op, not being cold, but staffing issues are not parents problems. Other kids are not our problem too. We want all kids to get the help they need but as parents our focus is getting our kids the help they need so they can be successful now and in the future.

And, thank you to the amazing teachers and staff who do go above and beyond to help our kids be successful. Don’t think for a moment we don’t see what you do but sometimes parents are just trying to survive and things like a simple thank you get forgotten, especially when we hit that stage in life with our kids, aging parents, work and our own health issues.

I’d encourage any parent who can afford it to get an advocate. It’s very hard going into meetings where the focus is to get out of helping vs helping.

I have never experienced this in FCPS. I have worked with wonderful, caring, professional, intelligent, accountable, staff. I believe that there are bad apples out there. But the OP said a family had an advocate for a team tjhey have never met before. Many families come with an advocate or an attorney to an initial referrral or meeting. They have no trust or respect and aren't assuming good will. OP said "assume good will." Families are never assuming positive intent of staff anymore. This is why staff don't want to work for FCPS.

And yes- you should care about other kids. You should care about staff. It IS your problem. It DOES affect your child and all children and the future of our country. You are responsible to more than just your child.

You wrote "the focus is to get out of helping vs helping." I have never once experienced that or seen that by FCPS staff. I have seen many families expect special education services for their children who do not meet DOE requirements, and get mad at FCPS or a school for following DOE guidelines, and it goes to battle with an advocate until FCPS gives in to make the battle and hostility stop.

FCPS schools have finite resources. There simply are not enough hours available to give every kid the IEP they need and to meet the requirements. Principals know this and push where they can get away with it. Blame the county, state, and federal governments for not adequately funding special education.

Bingo. The vast majority (99%) of SPED educators absolutely want to support kids to the best of their ability. However, they are extremely limited by lack of funding/workload.

We need a shift in our country to prioritize - and fund - education, including SPED.

I fully believe this. I have never met a special educator who truly believed they were doing "enough," although many felt they were doing all they could. The funding situation is pathetic and until SPED gets all of the funding promised in IDEA, we're going to keep having these massive issues. That being said, I'll keep my attorney on retainer. Because the only time the school listened was when I brought her. The "system" isn't my concern. My child is. And if the system has to suffer to get him the education he's entitled to, so be it. Parents and their hired advocates/attorneys are the only force keeping these programs marginally compliant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also don't think these teachers have any idea what it is like to have a special ed child. Our school system can barely educate non special ed children. They just aren't equipped to handle special needs children regularly. Those 504 and IEP documents provide so little compared to what is actually needed. It's insane to be sitting there arguing over one item as if it's a make or break it item and think in your head there are 99 other things that my child needs and will never get.

Meanwhile I have a kid without special needs and the teachers are accommodating of him all the time whenever anything is needed. I get personal emails how great he is. They notice things about him. Why? Because they like him. So don't tell me that teachers don't have the time. They just don't want to help.

My kids' teachers are overwhelmed right now and absolutely could use more co-teachers in more classes. Right now, it's limited to english and math. Ideally, every class that needs a co-teacher would get one, but that is not happening.

Teachers do not have the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If school staff met kids needs parents and advocates would not need to step in to advocate. Our principal was a huge bully as was the special education teacher. They did not get my child. Some teachers tried and went above and beyond, but most didn’t get our child. The principal would scream at us about things in our iep meetings that made no sense acting like we were dumb and had no clue. We had our child in many many hours of private services starting at age two, multiple private evaluations, which we gave them. Our private therapists reached out multiple times to school staff to coordinate services and school staff refused to meet with them. They tried to bully us onto a false school diagnosis so they could keep their special education teachers but would not offer more services based off the diagnosis. In hindsight I should have hired an advocate but instead we walked away from the useless iep that they did not follow and was recycled from another child, whose name was in it with multiple careless mistakes and continued in private services. In the end our efforts paid off without school help but most people cannot or will not do what we did nor would that work for the majority of kids.

People like op need to be fired. No services are sometimes better than bad services, which really hurt my child as they were pulled out of class for groups that did not work on my child’s needs but focused on other higher needs kids.

Op, not being cold, but staffing issues are not parents problems. Other kids are not our problem too. We want all kids to get the help they need but as parents our focus is getting our kids the help they need so they can be successful now and in the future.

And, thank you to the amazing teachers and staff who do go above and beyond to help our kids be successful. Don’t think for a moment we don’t see what you do but sometimes parents are just trying to survive and things like a simple thank you get forgotten, especially when we hit that stage in life with our kids, aging parents, work and our own health issues.

I’d encourage any parent who can afford it to get an advocate. It’s very hard going into meetings where the focus is to get out of helping vs helping.

I have never experienced this in FCPS. I have worked with wonderful, caring, professional, intelligent, accountable, staff. I believe that there are bad apples out there. But the OP said a family had an advocate for a team tjhey have never met before. Many families come with an advocate or an attorney to an initial referrral or meeting. They have no trust or respect and aren't assuming good will. OP said "assume good will." Families are never assuming positive intent of staff anymore. This is why staff don't want to work for FCPS.

And yes- you should care about other kids. You should care about staff. It IS your problem. It DOES affect your child and all children and the future of our country. You are responsible to more than just your child.

You wrote "the focus is to get out of helping vs helping." I have never once experienced that or seen that by FCPS staff. I have seen many families expect special education services for their children who do not meet DOE requirements, and get mad at FCPS or a school for following DOE guidelines, and it goes to battle with an advocate until FCPS gives in to make the battle and hostility stop.

FCPS schools have finite resources. There simply are not enough hours available to give every kid the IEP they need and to meet the requirements. Principals know this and push where they can get away with it. Blame the county, state, and federal governments for not adequately funding special education.

Bingo. The vast majority (99%) of SPED educators absolutely want to support kids to the best of their ability. However, they are extremely limited by lack of funding/workload.

We need a shift in our country to prioritize - and fund - education, including SPED.

I fully believe this. I have never met a special educator who truly believed they were doing "enough," although many felt they were doing all they could. The funding situation is pathetic and until SPED gets all of the funding promised in IDEA, we're going to keep having these massive issues. That being said, I'll keep my attorney on retainer. Because the only time the school listened was when I brought her. The "system" isn't my concern. My child is. And if the system has to suffer to get him the education he's entitled to, so be it. Parents and their hired advocates/attorneys are the only force keeping these programs marginally compliant.

Yes, unfortunately the funding/staffing levels just aren't there to provide all of the legally-required services. Some kids will get a boost from advocates, but the vast majority won't.

It's a terrible situation that no one wants to address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a SN kid on the spectrum and I never met teachers or principals or whatever who didn't support the needs of our kid. But I met a lot of parents who just handed over their child fom day one to a nanny or to daycare and never lift a finger to educate their kid themselfes. They expect the school to handle everything for them and solve all the behavioral issues of their kid but refuse to make their own homework.

Or, those of us who never handed off anything to the schools. Some of us quit our jobs to take our kids to many hours of therapy, tutoring on top of what we did at home. I pulled my kid out early many days until we got a later spot. We did daily therapies, on top of supplementing academics because they dumped my kid in a class with mostly iep kids and they dumbed down the academics thinking our kids were not smart and capable and did what was best for them. We had to drop the iep to get out of the classroom. Sadly mine did better after removing the iep and bad classroom. My kid was bullied every day by another kid. They were touched, kicked and full body squeezes that the teachers blew off as hugs. The hugs were not wanted and because of my child’s needs they could not advocate for themselves or say no.

You have no idea the sacrifices some of us make. Go to any speech or ot office after school and see it packed with parents doing the best they can for their kids. That’s where you found me every afternoon.

So, when you rant about working at least you got to work. I could not work being a full time taxi driver because people like you failed to give my kid what they needed and I was going to do what ever it took to get my child caught up and ok by high school. You have no idea what it’s like to parent a kid with special needs and what sone of us do for our kids.

And despite people like you who said my kid would never catch up, well, they did and are doing great despite the lack of school support. So, keep complaining vs helping. You clearly have the time if you can post here.

This really resonates with me. My DS2 is in high school, is taking the AP classes that are team taught (not an offering when my DS1 was in HS) and will graduate with a standard diploma. In ES, I can't tell you the battles I had with FCPS whose position was that my DS was not capable of grade level work despite ALL evaluations over the years showing he was of at least average intelligence. He has absolutely no intellecutal disabilities. The reason he wasn't able to do grade level work was because he did not have appropropriate support. Once I filed the state complaint, FCPS came back to the table and agreed with what we had asked for. The turn around in his performance, social and academic, was incredible once he had that support - and ALL his teachers noted the difference.

I also did what the PP did except I had to continue working. I got off the career path and took a job because it and my boss allowed me a more flexible work schedule. My DH also took a lower paying job for the same reasons. Between us, we were able to get kids to appointments and by cutting expenses to the bare bones were able to pay the bills. No vacations for us. I gave up the Washington Post, going to a hair stylist, packed lunch/coffee every single day and DH cut the kids' hair. We were so needy a neighbor kid (and her brother after her) fulfille their community service hours by coming to play with the kids so I could get some needed repairs at the house done - repairs that DH and I did ourselves! We couldn't afford to outsource anything because our funds were targeted for interventions because FCPS' efforts were so de minimis.

I know that not every parent can do what the PP and I have done. I don't judge them because I know that not everyone has the resources (time, money, energy, bandwidth, etc.) or capabilities that I have. I assume those parents are doing the best they can and just because their decisions are different than mine doesn't mean they are any better or worse than I am.

[Anonymous]

Which schools have team taught AP?(!!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which schools have team taught AP?(!!)

PP here. My preference is not to share as it would likely identify me and my DS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also don't think these teachers have any idea what it is like to have a special ed child. Our school system can barely educate non special ed children. They just aren't equipped to handle special needs children regularly. Those 504 and IEP documents provide so little compared to what is actually needed. It's insane to be sitting there arguing over one item as if it's a make or break it item and think in your head there are 99 other things that my child needs and will never get.

Meanwhile I have a kid without special needs and the teachers are accommodating of him all the time whenever anything is needed. I get personal emails how great he is. They notice things about him. Why? Because they like him. So don't tell me that teachers don't have the time. They just don't want to help.

Most teachers at best have a one semester class on special needs and it's a very generic class to cover the major SN, but not targeted for things outside ASD, ADHD, etc. Some do want to help but are restricted by the principal/system. We had a fantastic teacher one year who would stay stuff to me privately but come the IEP meetings she was scared to talk. But, she did her best and got our kid so the IEP with her wasn't particularly necessary. But, with other teachers they simply didn't get it and just ignored our child. Or, they'd claim to get it but didn't and assumed the child wasn't trying when they were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a SN kid on the spectrum and I never met teachers or principals or whatever who didn't support the needs of our kid. But I met a lot of parents who just handed over their child fom day one to a nanny or to daycare and never lift a finger to educate their kid themselfes. They expect the school to handle everything for them and solve all the behavioral issues of their kid but refuse to make their own homework.

Or, those of us who never handed off anything to the schools. Some of us quit our jobs to take our kids to many hours of therapy, tutoring on top of what we did at home. I pulled my kid out early many days until we got a later spot. We did daily therapies, on top of supplementing academics because they dumped my kid in a class with mostly iep kids and they dumbed down the academics thinking our kids were not smart and capable and did what was best for them. We had to drop the iep to get out of the classroom. Sadly mine did better after removing the iep and bad classroom. My kid was bullied every day by another kid. They were touched, kicked and full body squeezes that the teachers blew off as hugs. The hugs were not wanted and because of my child’s needs they could not advocate for themselves or say no.

You have no idea the sacrifices some of us make. Go to any speech or ot office after school and see it packed with parents doing the best they can for their kids. That’s where you found me every afternoon.

So, when you rant about working at least you got to work. I could not work being a full time taxi driver because people like you failed to give my kid what they needed and I was going to do what ever it took to get my child caught up and ok by high school. You have no idea what it’s like to parent a kid with special needs and what sone of us do for our kids.

And despite people like you who said my kid would never catch up, well, they did and are doing great despite the lack of school support. So, keep complaining vs helping. You clearly have the time if you can post here.

This really resonates with me. My DS2 is in high school, is taking the AP classes that are team taught (not an offering when my DS1 was in HS) and will graduate with a standard diploma. In ES, I can't tell you the battles I had with FCPS whose position was that my DS was not capable of grade level work despite ALL evaluations over the years showing he was of at least average intelligence. He has absolutely no intellecutal disabilities. The reason he wasn't able to do grade level work was because he did not have appropropriate support. Once I filed the state complaint, FCPS came back to the table and agreed with what we had asked for. The turn around in his performance, social and academic, was incredible once he had that support - and ALL his teachers noted the difference.

I also did what the PP did except I had to continue working. I got off the career path and took a job because it and my boss allowed me a more flexible work schedule. My DH also took a lower paying job for the same reasons. Between us, we were able to get kids to appointments and by cutting expenses to the bare bones were able to pay the bills. No vacations for us. I gave up the Washington Post, going to a hair stylist, packed lunch/coffee every single day and DH cut the kids' hair. We were so needy a neighbor kid (and her brother after her) fulfille their community service hours by coming to play with the kids so I could get some needed repairs at the house done - repairs that DH and I did ourselves! We couldn't afford to outsource anything because our funds were targeted for interventions because FCPS' efforts were so de minimis.

I know that not every parent can do what the PP and I have done. I don't judge them because I know that not everyone has the resources (time, money, energy, bandwidth, etc.) or capabilities that I have. I assume those parents are doing the best they can and just because their decisions are different than mine doesn't mean they are any better or worse than I am.

We did all those things too. The neighbor kid idea is brilliant. We never had a babysitter due to cost, always did DIY hair cuts, no vacations (cannot remember the last one we had its been so long), DIY our house except for a few things we couldn't do, etc. The therapies took priority over everything.

They just assumed my kid was dumb until their standardized tests showed something very different and the principal was screaming at me telling me that I didn't know my kid was smart. Of course I knew. We had multiple evaluations that showed it, gave it to them and they ignored it.

I think these teachers and school staff are so checked out they have no clue what some of us do do for our kids and the sacrifices we make. And, as soon as we could stop the therapies, we had to play catch up for savings, retirement and college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If school staff met kids needs parents and advocates would not need to step in to advocate. Our principal was a huge bully as was the special education teacher. They did not get my child. Some teachers tried and went above and beyond, but most didn’t get our child. The principal would scream at us about things in our iep meetings that made no sense acting like we were dumb and had no clue. We had our child in many many hours of private services starting at age two, multiple private evaluations, which we gave them. Our private therapists reached out multiple times to school staff to coordinate services and school staff refused to meet with them. They tried to bully us onto a false school diagnosis so they could keep their special education teachers but would not offer more services based off the diagnosis. In hindsight I should have hired an advocate but instead we walked away from the useless iep that they did not follow and was recycled from another child, whose name was in it with multiple careless mistakes and continued in private services. In the end our efforts paid off without school help but most people cannot or will not do what we did nor would that work for the majority of kids.

People like op need to be fired. No services are sometimes better than bad services, which really hurt my child as they were pulled out of class for groups that did not work on my child’s needs but focused on other higher needs kids.

Op, not being cold, but staffing issues are not parents problems. Other kids are not our problem too. We want all kids to get the help they need but as parents our focus is getting our kids the help they need so they can be successful now and in the future.

And, thank you to the amazing teachers and staff who do go above and beyond to help our kids be successful. Don’t think for a moment we don’t see what you do but sometimes parents are just trying to survive and things like a simple thank you get forgotten, especially when we hit that stage in life with our kids, aging parents, work and our own health issues.

I’d encourage any parent who can afford it to get an advocate. It’s very hard going into meetings where the focus is to get out of helping vs helping.

I have never experienced this in FCPS. I have worked with wonderful, caring, professional, intelligent, accountable, staff. I believe that there are bad apples out there. But the OP said a family had an advocate for a team tjhey have never met before. Many families come with an advocate or an attorney to an initial referrral or meeting. They have no trust or respect and aren't assuming good will. OP said "assume good will." Families are never assuming positive intent of staff anymore. This is why staff don't want to work for FCPS.

And yes- you should care about other kids. You should care about staff. It IS your problem. It DOES affect your child and all children and the future of our country. You are responsible to more than just your child.

You wrote "the focus is to get out of helping vs helping." I have never once experienced that or seen that by FCPS staff. I have seen many families expect special education services for their children who do not meet DOE requirements, and get mad at FCPS or a school for following DOE guidelines, and it goes to battle with an advocate until FCPS gives in to make the battle and hostility stop.

FCPS schools have finite resources. There simply are not enough hours available to give every kid the IEP they need and to meet the requirements. Principals know this and push where they can get away with it. Blame the county, state, and federal governments for not adequately funding special education.

Bingo. The vast majority (99%) of SPED educators absolutely want to support kids to the best of their ability. However, they are extremely limited by lack of funding/workload.

We need a shift in our country to prioritize - and fund - education, including SPED.

I fully believe this. I have never met a special educator who truly believed they were doing "enough," although many felt they were doing all they could. The funding situation is pathetic and until SPED gets all of the funding promised in IDEA, we're going to keep having these massive issues. That being said, I'll keep my attorney on retainer. Because the only time the school listened was when I brought her. The "system" isn't my concern. My child is. And if the system has to suffer to get him the education he's entitled to, so be it. Parents and their hired advocates/attorneys are the only force keeping these programs marginally compliant.

Yes, unfortunately the funding/staffing levels just aren't there to provide all of the legally-required services. Some kids will get a boost from advocates, but the vast majority won't.

It's a terrible situation that no one wants to address.

Most of these school systems have plenty of money, its how they choose to spend it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If school staff met kids needs parents and advocates would not need to step in to advocate. Our principal was a huge bully as was the special education teacher. They did not get my child. Some teachers tried and went above and beyond, but most didn’t get our child. The principal would scream at us about things in our iep meetings that made no sense acting like we were dumb and had no clue. We had our child in many many hours of private services starting at age two, multiple private evaluations, which we gave them. Our private therapists reached out multiple times to school staff to coordinate services and school staff refused to meet with them. They tried to bully us onto a false school diagnosis so they could keep their special education teachers but would not offer more services based off the diagnosis. In hindsight I should have hired an advocate but instead we walked away from the useless iep that they did not follow and was recycled from another child, whose name was in it with multiple careless mistakes and continued in private services. In the end our efforts paid off without school help but most people cannot or will not do what we did nor would that work for the majority of kids.

People like op need to be fired. No services are sometimes better than bad services, which really hurt my child as they were pulled out of class for groups that did not work on my child’s needs but focused on other higher needs kids.

Op, not being cold, but staffing issues are not parents problems. Other kids are not our problem too. We want all kids to get the help they need but as parents our focus is getting our kids the help they need so they can be successful now and in the future.

And, thank you to the amazing teachers and staff who do go above and beyond to help our kids be successful. Don’t think for a moment we don’t see what you do but sometimes parents are just trying to survive and things like a simple thank you get forgotten, especially when we hit that stage in life with our kids, aging parents, work and our own health issues.

I’d encourage any parent who can afford it to get an advocate. It’s very hard going into meetings where the focus is to get out of helping vs helping.

I have never experienced this in FCPS. I have worked with wonderful, caring, professional, intelligent, accountable, staff. I believe that there are bad apples out there. But the OP said a family had an advocate for a team tjhey have never met before. Many families come with an advocate or an attorney to an initial referrral or meeting. They have no trust or respect and aren't assuming good will. OP said "assume good will." Families are never assuming positive intent of staff anymore. This is why staff don't want to work for FCPS.

And yes- you should care about other kids. You should care about staff. It IS your problem. It DOES affect your child and all children and the future of our country. You are responsible to more than just your child.

You wrote "the focus is to get out of helping vs helping." I have never once experienced that or seen that by FCPS staff. I have seen many families expect special education services for their children who do not meet DOE requirements, and get mad at FCPS or a school for following DOE guidelines, and it goes to battle with an advocate until FCPS gives in to make the battle and hostility stop.

FCPS schools have finite resources. There simply are not enough hours available to give every kid the IEP they need and to meet the requirements. Principals know this and push where they can get away with it. Blame the county, state, and federal governments for not adequately funding special education.

Bingo. The vast majority (99%) of SPED educators absolutely want to support kids to the best of their ability. However, they are extremely limited by lack of funding/workload.

We need a shift in our country to prioritize - and fund - education, including SPED.

I fully believe this. I have never met a special educator who truly believed they were doing "enough," although many felt they were doing all they could. The funding situation is pathetic and until SPED gets all of the funding promised in IDEA, we're going to keep having these massive issues. That being said, I'll keep my attorney on retainer. Because the only time the school listened was when I brought her. The "system" isn't my concern. My child is. And if the system has to suffer to get him the education he's entitled to, so be it. Parents and their hired advocates/attorneys are the only force keeping these programs marginally compliant.

Yes, unfortunately the funding/staffing levels just aren't there to provide all of the legally-required services. Some kids will get a boost from advocates, but the vast majority won't.

It's a terrible situation that no one wants to address.

The school system in this county choses not to allocate sufficient resources for this to the point that it was ruled a civil rights violation at the federal level.

Funding and staffing level are not like hard to predict weather phenomena. They are deliberate decisions by public servants. Vote, organize, write to your elected officials and stop treating it like it's some pre-determined fate. Squeaky wheels get oiled (and that's why on the individual level people bring in advocates).