Think twice before hiring an advocate…

[Anonymous]

My emotions are well regulated, which is why I continue to show up every day and work with your kids. But am going to be requesting a move to a lower SES school for next year. I know the grass isn’t always greener, but at least I’ll feel like my efforts and knowledge are appreciated, instead of questioned at every step.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My emotions are well regulated, which is why I continue to show up every day and work with your kids. But am going to be requesting a move to a lower SES school for next year. I know the grass isn’t always greener, but at least I’ll feel like my efforts and knowledge are appreciated, instead of questioned at every step.

I'm the OP you're responding to. Just so you know my kids, 2 with IEPs, were at a Title 1 school in FCPS. I filed 2 state complaints. I lost one complaint and withdrew the other but they both resulted in what my advocate and I were asking for so they weren't really losses.

It's not your instructional skills that are in question here. It's your attitude, misplaced blame and unwillingness to do what's right. It's been 8 years since I filed the last complaint. Time has shown that I was right. My DS is graduating with a regular diploma, has expressed interest in college (would start at NVCC) and be able to live an independent, productive life. Had I not had and advocate and pushed back against people like you, his life would look very different.

I'm done with this thread. I am what FCPS has created. You don't like dealing with me and my advocate, blame your administrators and leadership. They should have done the right thing from the start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

You miss the mark. ALL kids, SN OR NOT, in public school have insufficient resources. I don’t have “willfull disregard.” My experience has only been staff offering FAPE and following the law, while parents think their child is entitled to “more” than FAPE. They bring an advocate and complain to get their way, as if their cold is more important than all the others.

You also miss the mark of the “fear, dread, anxiety” that staff have. You have no empathy for that, avd the fact that STAFF never win. you want “more services” but YOU are the one lacking empathy, respect, appreciation. You are the one demanding sped teachers ignore federal law to suit your preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

You miss the mark. ALL kids, SN OR NOT, in public school have insufficient resources. I don’t have “willfull disregard.” My experience has only been staff offering FAPE and following the law, while parents think their child is entitled to “more” than FAPE. They bring an advocate and complain to get their way, as if their cold is more important than all the others.

You also miss the mark of the “fear, dread, anxiety” that staff have. You have no empathy for that, avd the fact that STAFF never win. you want “more services” but YOU are the one lacking empathy, respect, appreciation. You are the one demanding sped teachers ignore federal law to suit your preferences.

You get paid to do this, plus benefits. You do win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

You miss the mark. ALL kids, SN OR NOT, in public school have insufficient resources. I don’t have “willfull disregard.” My experience has only been staff offering FAPE and following the law, while parents think their child is entitled to “more” than FAPE. They bring an advocate and complain to get their way, as if their cold is more important than all the others.

You also miss the mark of the “fear, dread, anxiety” that staff have. You have no empathy for that, avd the fact that STAFF never win. you want “more services” but YOU are the one lacking empathy, respect, appreciation. You are the one demanding sped teachers ignore federal law to suit your preferences.

You get paid to do this, plus benefits. You do win.

And there it is. "You get paid to take all this abuse I don't see the problem"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

You miss the mark. ALL kids, SN OR NOT, in public school have insufficient resources. I don’t have “willfull disregard.” My experience has only been staff offering FAPE and following the law, while parents think their child is entitled to “more” than FAPE. They bring an advocate and complain to get their way, as if their cold is more important than all the others.

You also miss the mark of the “fear, dread, anxiety” that staff have. You have no empathy for that, avd the fact that STAFF never win. you want “more services” but YOU are the one lacking empathy, respect, appreciation. You are the one demanding sped teachers ignore federal law to suit your preferences.

You get paid to do this, plus benefits. You do win.

And there it is. "You get paid to take all this abuse I don't see the problem"

If you think you’re being abused by giving a child an extra hour of reading instruction, you need to find a new job.

Seriously. You’re insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

You miss the mark. ALL kids, SN OR NOT, in public school have insufficient resources. I don’t have “willfull disregard.” My experience has only been staff offering FAPE and following the law, while parents think their child is entitled to “more” than FAPE. They bring an advocate and complain to get their way, as if their cold is more important than all the others.

You also miss the mark of the “fear, dread, anxiety” that staff have. You have no empathy for that, avd the fact that STAFF never win. you want “more services” but YOU are the one lacking empathy, respect, appreciation. You are the one demanding sped teachers ignore federal law to suit your preferences.

You get paid to do this, plus benefits. You do win.

And there it is. "You get paid to take all this abuse I don't see the problem"

If you think you’re being abused by giving a child an extra hour of reading instruction, you need to find a new job.

Seriously. You’re insane.

NP. The abuse to which she refers is not anything about the child directly. This is about certain parents, and it is demonstrated on this thread.

[Anonymous]

I wish staff had a phone number we could file complaints to for these parents that verbally abuse, waste our time, expect special treatment, expect staff to ignore federal law. Wish some of you parents could be banned for your insane and abusive treatment to staff.
You can advocate and still be professional and within law.

“I’ll just file a complaint to get my away. I’ll just call DOE to undermine the professionals. I’ll just call due process until they meet my demands. I know more than the professionals. They don’t care. They just serve themselves. They don’t want to help.” After often yelling, swearing, insults, nastiness.

You parents are the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

So, that's your takeaway from this thread where so many have recounted terrible experiences with their IEP teams. Your willful disregard is why we feel compelled to bring outsiders to help us. You have no sympathy for the fear/dread/anxiety we feel for our kids yet we're supposed to have sympathy for you - you who have acknowledged there are insufficient resources for our kids. <smh>

You miss the mark. ALL kids, SN OR NOT, in public school have insufficient resources. I don’t have “willfull disregard.” My experience has only been staff offering FAPE and following the law, while parents think their child is entitled to “more” than FAPE. They bring an advocate and complain to get their way, as if their cold is more important than all the others.

You also miss the mark of the “fear, dread, anxiety” that staff have. You have no empathy for that, avd the fact that STAFF never win. you want “more services” but YOU are the one lacking empathy, respect, appreciation. You are the one demanding sped teachers ignore federal law to suit your preferences.

You get paid to do this, plus benefits. You do win.

And there it is. "You get paid to take all this abuse I don't see the problem"

If you think you’re being abused by giving a child an extra hour of reading instruction, you need to find a new job.

Seriously. You’re insane.

You are the problem. Stop bullying teachers FFS.

[Anonymous]

It’s nice to see so clearly what teachers think about families of SN kids. I ve never “ bullied” a teacher or a person in my life but

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As I'm reading through these posts I'm wondering if much of the debate on this thread is from a misunderstanding. Parents who insist their child has a significant disability, but also is "almost average" (in the words others are using). Maybe these parents are somehow in denial of their children's needs at the same time they are advocating for them. Because no - if your child is years below grade level, cannot communicate verbally at the level expected, etc., they are not "almost average" and are not who this thread is about. It seems that parents on this thread are taking every post from school professionals and assuming its about their child, when it might not fit.

My guess is a lot of DCUM posters have 2E kids - above average in some respects but needing significant supports in others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP seems to be advocating for a child to receive services in the areas that they are below where they should be. An IEP isn't just a personalized menu of supports that a parent can pick from. I certainly wouldn't want to work in special education if every decision I make is constantly questioned by laypeople who haven't gone to school to learn how to educate children with special needs.

ummm that is exactly what an IEP is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

You are laughably confused about the law. SPED teachers (and often SPED coordinators and administrators) usuallh are confused about the law. That’s why we bring advocates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).

[phone]
This one million times.
What do families expect? They mistrust and hate the system, attack and hate ALL staff, then want the system to provide for them. then they wonder why staff don’t want to work with them.

Advocates cost money. NOBODY hires an advocate unless they already have reason to know they need it based on negative interactions with the school.