Think twice before hiring an advocate…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really hope you're a troll, OP.

My son had an IEP from K to 11th grade and was in the GTLD program of MCPS: gifted, talented and learning disabled. He was way above grade level, but STILL needed his IEP, services and accommodations!

Surely you can understand that being below, at or above grade level has NOTHING TO DO with receiving supports and accommodations. You need to address the actual needs of the student, and this is an ongoing assessment on a case-by-case basis because each student is different.

On a separate note, we never needed to hire anyone to help us get what our son needed in MCPS. His neuropsychs laid it all out, and the IEP teams he had in elementary, middle and high school were all willing to help. There were the inevitable lack of resources to contend with, but we knew his IEP teams tried their best. He's now at a good university, and would never, ever have gotten there without the IEP being followed every year (sometimes imperfectly).

I think that *most of the time*, assuming the best of intentions will set the right tone, as long as you also come armed with unassailable facts and present them clearly. Even if you have OP on the IEP team, who apparently believes that students operating at or above grade level don't deserve accommodations!

You did not need an advocate because you had a robust neuropsych.
The school developed psych-ed reports that I have seen (2 DCPS and 1 DCPCS) do not have this roadmap.

PP you replied to. We paid thousands of dollars for neuropsych evaluations at Stixrud. We are barely middle class with an HHI of less than 100K/yr, but this was a priority for us. The reports had a page with suggested accommodations, all written in MCPS-speak, ready to plug into an IEP.

If you can at all afford it, do not rely on school psychologists. They do not have the same credentials, experience or time to evaluate kids, as the ones in private practice.

[Anonymous]

Guess what lady, if I’d actually gotten responses to my inquiries about how my child’s IEP was being implemented, maybe I wouldn’t have needed to hire an advocate. When all I got is radio silence, I did what I needed to to make sure my child got wax he was legally entitled to.

[Anonymous]

Wow. This post just makes me even more sure that the decision to homeschool my 2E kids was the best one. I realize teaching is hard. OP, sounds like you should move on to a different career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guess what lady, if I’d actually gotten responses to my inquiries about how my child’s IEP was being implemented, maybe I wouldn’t have needed to hire an advocate. When all I got is radio silence, I did what I needed to to make sure my child got wax he was legally entitled to.

Brava, well-said. I got more than radio silence; the social worker and the school psych both JUMPED on me with a gotcha face when I said we might consider seeing an outside provider if necessary, then twisted our words around to deny an IEP because “the parents will be getting external access to resources.” It was sad to see them think they are doing a great service by eliminating the need for additional tax dollars spent on a child.

[Anonymous]

My big regret is not hiring an advocate. The help we got was a joke and we spent a fortune on private therapies and I spent many hours tutoring my child to keep them at grade level or above. But, just because my child did well academically didn’t mean they didn’t need support and I was not going to wait as those early years are critical and I knew it would take months to years to get a good iep and real help and I decided the money was better spent privately than on an advocate. The elementary school fail my child.

[Anonymous]

I know that many of you have had negative experiences, and I’m truly sorry about that. As a special education teacher, I have had some students with advocates that were ridiculous. We had multiple meetings where the advocate wanted to argue over every word. It should not take four meetings to finalize an IEP, especially when the school and parent were in agreement. I’ve worked with several advocates who got into the field because of their own child’s needs, and they seemed to think that every child needed what their kid did.

Some advocates have been professional and reasonable, and if you need one, I hope you get one of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a special education teacher (I also have a child with an IEP, so I have personal skin in the game). We just got the news that two of our fellow teachers have quit following a prolonged battle with a family and their advocate. This family required at least four IEP meetings to get to an IEP they’d be willing to sign- insulting and demoralizing two excellent teachers in the process who hadn’t even WORKED with the child yet.

Mostly I’m just asking you to assume good will. Stop coming into meetings assuming we want to screw your child’s life up and deny them FAPE. This was a particularly egregious case for me because it’s a child whose academics are so close to grade level!! And we were offering the child a good supportive plan to help them get there.
We are doing the best we can to serve ALL students with needs and come Monday my caseload is about 5 students higher. You don’t need to hire an advocate before you even meet with the team once. We aren’t out to deny your kid what they need to succeed academically.

What supports were they asking for that the teachers didn’t think were necessary?

I'd like to know this too. Why was it a battle?

I don’t know their situation but my meetings have always led to worse behavior for the year than if they didn’t have them. It’s like the legality of it makes them too scared to do anything. My son is getting Fs and he was getting reports from individual teachers on how great he was doing at the meeting just the other week. Even the slightest request such as please let me know if he’s failing two tests in a row has been rebuked. I leave with time and a half and nothing else almost every year except for the years with caring teachers. It’s very sad to watch not only the lack of response and hostility but the lies these teachers make up on the report to fake justify their lack of services.

[Anonymous]

This time I even went with an advocate and all she can offer is a fight for services better defined. Because the line items are vague enough, there is nothing she can do without fighting for more details to the list. She agrees they put up road blocks that shouldn’t be there and lie about how well my son is doing, but this is the system we live in. If it doesn’t say something specific and not just “Johnny will get notes of the lectures when needed” it will not happen. It needs to be specific. Tests will be allowed to be taken at 1.5 times the standard test time has been the only standard followed in 6 years of this journey. Special Ed sucks in America.

[Anonymous]

So 00:58 I completely understand why every word might be argued. It’s the only time in the year to get it in paper and unfortunately schools are crooked. Reading six teachers lie about my son when he’s not doing well socially emotionally and failing two classes is way more heartbreaking than your angst over some words on a paper I assure you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can hire advocates if they want to.

Maybe the key is to hire an advocate who isn’t adversarial. The advocate gets paid either way, but the family and team have to work with each other the rest of the year.

The best advocates get an IEP that's appropriate without alienating the very people charged with implementing it.

[Anonymous]

OP is a drama seeking troll. Drastic statements, no specifics, no follow up. There has been a whole bunch of trolling on behalf of MCPS lately.

To those who overall agreed with OP - go read the long thread from early this month about what MCPS staff wished they could tell the parents. Basically, due to admin pressure (and having advocates involved), teachers agree to things in IEP that they know they will not implement (aka lying), then make up data for reports and cover up the lie throughout the year.

This is why people need advocates and to check on actual services, have progress meetings and continue involvement during the year, each year.

[Anonymous]

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1150081.page

[Anonymous]

Don’t blame an advocate for a teacher’s lack of backbone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a special education teacher (I also have a child with an IEP, so I have personal skin in the game). We just got the news that two of our fellow teachers have quit following a prolonged battle with a family and their advocate. This family required at least four IEP meetings to get to an IEP they’d be willing to sign- insulting and demoralizing two excellent teachers in the process who hadn’t even WORKED with the child yet.

Mostly I’m just asking you to assume good will. Stop coming into meetings assuming we want to screw your child’s life up and deny them FAPE. This was a particularly egregious case for me because it’s a child whose academics are so close to grade level!! And we were offering the child a good supportive plan to help them get there.
We are doing the best we can to serve ALL students with needs and come Monday my caseload is about 5 students higher. You don’t need to hire an advocate before you even meet with the team once. We aren’t out to deny your kid what they need to succeed academically.

What supports were they asking for that the teachers didn’t think were necessary?

I'd like to know this too. Why was it a battle?

I don’t know their situation but my meetings have always led to worse behavior for the year than if they didn’t have them. It’s like the legality of it makes them too scared to do anything. My son is getting Fs and he was getting reports from individual teachers on how great he was doing at the meeting just the other week. Even the slightest request such as please let me know if he’s failing two tests in a row has been rebuked. I leave with time and a half and nothing else almost every year except for the years with caring teachers. It’s very sad to watch not only the lack of response and hostility but the lies these teachers make up on the report to fake justify their lack of services.

I experienced this too, to my great dismay. The school was completely failing to provide accomodations and so I hired an advocate, and the school proceeded to almost wholly give up on my kid. It was wild and I have PTSD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what lady, if I’d actually gotten responses to my inquiries about how my child’s IEP was being implemented, maybe I wouldn’t have needed to hire an advocate. When all I got is radio silence, I did what I needed to to make sure my child got wax he was legally entitled to.

Brava, well-said. I got more than radio silence; the social worker and the school psych both JUMPED on me with a gotcha face when I said we might consider seeing an outside provider if necessary, then twisted our words around to deny an IEP because “the parents will be getting external access to resources.” It was sad to see them think they are doing a great service by eliminating the need for additional tax dollars spent on a child.

that’s not a reason to deny an IEP ffs. No wonder you needed an advocate.

I hired an advocate who is a former special ed teacher and she is amazing because she knows how to talk to teachers and what accomodations work. unless I was going for due process or the IEP was denied with the non-lawyer advocate, I would never hire a lawyer as an advocate to help design the IEP. (I’m a lawyer!)

My advocate is able to work really well with the school and they mostly seemed to listen to her because she has good ideas. At least one of her ideas made a HUGE difference that everyone could see.