S/O You can be canceled even if you aren’t a bigot, it happened to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think what happened to you is that everyone already didn’t like you, for whatever reason. People who are liked and respected don’t get “canceled” for one mistake or ill-considered comment. If these were your colleagues, there was already a problem.

This is not true. There are many people who are bound to an orthodoxy (worse than any religion) that makes them cut off friends and family who violate any facet of their beliefs. Just watched a bizarre situation when we hosted some of my son's friends for Spring Break. We had a policy discussion over dinner on cartel violence at the border and two of them spent an entire day crying in a bedroom. I want to say that "you are an adult now, use your words to make a policy argument." But somehow that discussion was so egregious that he has been cut-off as being "anti-immigrant" by those two after four years of friendship (and hosting them). So just think of how little co-workers could value you.

I said to a friend over Spring Break that I don't believe in disengaging from people who hold different views. He looked stunned and said, "you don't?" I said no but offered no explanation and he changed the subject. Even tolerance is taboo these days.

What level of disagreement tho?

I'm not going to speak to people who actively support laws that oppress me (I'm gay). That means that person fundamentally opposes my right to exist. Now, I also won't punch them or TP their house. I just won't ever speak to them.

The conversation had no nuance. I was explaining that I am okay being friends with people who hold different views. That's it. It was in the context of living in an area that was well balanced across the political spectrum (rather than being simply liberal).

I'm even okay with people believing in laws that I think are oppressive toward me. Just in general, I think that living in integrated cultures is okay. I have also lived in other countries that are more conservative than the US and that's okay too. I respect their views and think most people come from a fundamentally good and decent place, even if I disagree with their conclusions. I have always tried to be open minded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you tell us what you said, you are a racist. Bcs not posting what you said means you know it was wrong.

No, it’s protecting my identity. What I said was NOT wrong.

So you say. I had a guy at work rant at me about how he was labeled a racist for saying we are all IMMIGRANTS here unless we are native, and what is racist about that?
Honestly, at this point, you are coming as horribly defensive and a bigot. Narcissist as well.

Are you trying to say the guy at work said something wrong?

Yes, 100%. I am an immigrant here; he is not.I immigrated to this county, whereas his family was colonists. Are we calling colonists immigrants now? No doubt this is op, who is a bigot.

How do you know his family were colonists? Don't assume that is true for all white people.

Bcs he said We Are All Immigrants Here.

My family (poor, uneducated immigrants from Ireland and Germany) immigrated to the US around the turn of the 20th century with nothing. I come from an immigrant family. I'm 4th gen and feel extremely fortunate about the sacrifices they made, but I also don't forget where I came from. If I said the US is "a nation of immigrants" does that make me a colonist and a bigot?

Yes. Bcs you have been a U.S. citizen for over a century. And North America was colonized and invaded. As mentioned, Anglos did not call the Vikings immigrants. There is a vast difference between you and me. I immigrated here during my lifetime. You have NOT. Nor was there such a thing as a poor "immigrant" around the turn of the 19 to 20 centuries. They had money to leave.
I will never been see as an American, even though I have been one since 1996. You know it, I know it, all the people here know it. So, enough with your BS. You are not an immigrant. Long ago, your ancestors took a ship here, not you. Facts matter. Nation of immigrants, a nation of invaders, a nation of colonists, not we are all immigrants here.

I will bite. You are right, despite being here for 27 years, I do not consider you an American. If you come to this country and denigrate its people, history and institutions, you are not an American. You are here solely to take from its economy, which makes you a leech, not a citizen. Change your tune and you will be welcomed.

This person pays taxes just like you do and has a right to their opinion just like you do. That is the American way. If you don’t see it that way, YOU may be the one falling short here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think what happened to you is that everyone already didn’t like you, for whatever reason. People who are liked and respected don’t get “canceled” for one mistake or ill-considered comment. If these were your colleagues, there was already a problem.

This is not true. There are many people who are bound to an orthodoxy (worse than any religion) that makes them cut off friends and family who violate any facet of their beliefs. Just watched a bizarre situation when we hosted some of my son's friends for Spring Break. We had a policy discussion over dinner on cartel violence at the border and two of them spent an entire day crying in a bedroom. I want to say that "you are an adult now, use your words to make a policy argument." But somehow that discussion was so egregious that he has been cut-off as being "anti-immigrant" by those two after four years of friendship (and hosting them). So just think of how little co-workers could value you.

I said to a friend over Spring Break that I don't believe in disengaging from people who hold different views. He looked stunned and said, "you don't?" I said no but offered no explanation and he changed the subject. Even tolerance is taboo these days.

What level of disagreement tho?

I'm not going to speak to people who actively support laws that oppress me (I'm gay). That means that person fundamentally opposes my right to exist. Now, I also won't punch them or TP their house. I just won't ever speak to them.

The conversation had no nuance. I was explaining that I am okay being friends with people who hold different views. That's it. It was in the context of living in an area that was well balanced across the political spectrum (rather than being simply liberal).

I'm even okay with people believing in laws that I think are oppressive toward me. Just in general, I think that living in integrated cultures is okay. I have also lived in other countries that are more conservative than the US and that's okay too. I respect their views and think most people come from a fundamentally good and decent place, even if I disagree with their conclusions. I have always tried to be open minded.

This. I am very progressive. I know people on here will assume that because I'm arguing against canceling people or indict a person entirely for one or two beliefs you find repugnant, it means I must be a Trumper. But I'm not even close -- I've never voted for a Republican for a major elective office (I might have voted for a few local politicians who were Republicans back in the 90s/00s if I was happy with their performance). I've worked on democratic campaigns and done lots of volunteer work for pro-choice organizations.

But I think part of it for me is that I didn't grow up with these beliefs. My dad is basically libertarian or Republican, depending on the issue or day. My mom is liberal but was raised super conservative Catholic and when I was a kid she was very anti-abortion, skeptical of feminism in general, and believed homosexuality, unwed parents, etc. were sins (she has since loosened up on a lot of those things, helped by some of her kids). I arrived at my progressive beliefs through talking to people and self-examination. I took philosophy classes in college and it helped give me a framework for thinking through beliefs and needing a way to support assertions about the way the world should be or the way people should act, or the role of government. I've learned a lot over the years, from liberals, conservatives, moderates, socialists, hard-core capitalists. I've also spent a lot of time both abroad and working/living/socializing with people from other countries, and discovered that the American-style left-right dynamic doesn't always translate and there are lots of ways to look at these issues that we don't really even contemplate here.

I think my opinions are "right" -- I've put a lot of effort into developing them. But I've held "wrong" opinions enough times in the past, only to learn and correct them, that I think it's arrogant for me to tell anyone that they must be wrong about everything 100%.

So the idea of cancelling people... it just bothers me. People should be given space to evolve. And if you think you are done evolving, I question your judgment. And none of us is going to learn anything if we don't talk to each other. I'm NOT moderate and find a lot of moderates sort of ridiculous in their beliefs, but the one thing I think moderates get right these days is the belief that conversation and compromise is good for us. When we retreat to our corners and just shut down, we might as well give up. We'll never accomplish any of our goals that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you tell us what you said, you are a racist. Bcs not posting what you said means you know it was wrong.

No, it’s protecting my identity. What I said was NOT wrong.

So you say. I had a guy at work rant at me about how he was labeled a racist for saying we are all IMMIGRANTS here unless we are native, and what is racist about that?
Honestly, at this point, you are coming as horribly defensive and a bigot. Narcissist as well.

Are you trying to say the guy at work said something wrong?

Yes, 100%. I am an immigrant here; he is not.I immigrated to this county, whereas his family was colonists. Are we calling colonists immigrants now? No doubt this is op, who is a bigot.

How do you know his family were colonists? Don't assume that is true for all white people.

Bcs he said We Are All Immigrants Here.

My family (poor, uneducated immigrants from Ireland and Germany) immigrated to the US around the turn of the 20th century with nothing. I come from an immigrant family. I'm 4th gen and feel extremely fortunate about the sacrifices they made, but I also don't forget where I came from. If I said the US is "a nation of immigrants" does that make me a colonist and a bigot?

Yes. Bcs you have been a U.S. citizen for over a century. And North America was colonized and invaded. As mentioned, Anglos did not call the Vikings immigrants. There is a vast difference between you and me. I immigrated here during my lifetime. You have NOT. Nor was there such a thing as a poor "immigrant" around the turn of the 19 to 20 centuries. They had money to leave.
I will never been see as an American, even though I have been one since 1996. You know it, I know it, all the people here know it. So, enough with your BS. You are not an immigrant. Long ago, your ancestors took a ship here, not you. Facts matter. Nation of immigrants, a nation of invaders, a nation of colonists, not we are all immigrants here.

I will bite. You are right, despite being here for 27 years, I do not consider you an American. If you come to this country and denigrate its people, history and institutions, you are not an American. You are here solely to take from its economy, which makes you a leech, not a citizen. Change your tune and you will be welcomed.

+1000

So you are all in favor of removing the First Amendment? And I am not American enough for YOU?

[Anonymous]

Kind of wondering if this is a former coworker of mine. This person didn’t say anything technically “racist” (like a slur) but had a classic white person fox-news meltdown in a meeting and when called on it - doubled down. Multiple times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry. The mob mentality today is very evil. Signs of the times. The Bible says come ye out from among them, and be ye separate. It says in the final days there will be a remnant seeds worth of people who will go to heaven. In other words, the majority of society will be left behind because they are bad.

I DGAF what the Bible says.

I can tell by your behavior towards others. Yikes.

Pot meet kettle

Check yourself

NP. Nothing the above was like the PP with whom they were responding. Check yourself, crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think what happened to you is that everyone already didn’t like you, for whatever reason. People who are liked and respected don’t get “canceled” for one mistake or ill-considered comment. If these were your colleagues, there was already a problem.

This is not true. There are many people who are bound to an orthodoxy (worse than any religion) that makes them cut off friends and family who violate any facet of their beliefs. Just watched a bizarre situation when we hosted some of my son's friends for Spring Break. We had a policy discussion over dinner on cartel violence at the border and two of them spent an entire day crying in a bedroom. I want to say that "you are an adult now, use your words to make a policy argument." But somehow that discussion was so egregious that he has been cut-off as being "anti-immigrant" by those two after four years of friendship (and hosting them). So just think of how little co-workers could value you.

I said to a friend over Spring Break that I don't believe in disengaging from people who hold different views. He looked stunned and said, "you don't?" I said no but offered no explanation and he changed the subject. Even tolerance is taboo these days.

What level of disagreement tho?

I'm not going to speak to people who actively support laws that oppress me (I'm gay). That means that person fundamentally opposes my right to exist. Now, I also won't punch them or TP their house. I just won't ever speak to them.

The conversation had no nuance. I was explaining that I am okay being friends with people who hold different views. That's it. It was in the context of living in an area that was well balanced across the political spectrum (rather than being simply liberal).

I'm even okay with people believing in laws that I think are oppressive toward me. Just in general, I think that living in integrated cultures is okay. I have also lived in other countries that are more conservative than the US and that's okay too. I respect their views and think most people come from a fundamentally good and decent place, even if I disagree with their conclusions. I have always tried to be open minded.

This. I am very progressive. I know people on here will assume that because I'm arguing against canceling people or indict a person entirely for one or two beliefs you find repugnant, it means I must be a Trumper. But I'm not even close -- I've never voted for a Republican for a major elective office (I might have voted for a few local politicians who were Republicans back in the 90s/00s if I was happy with their performance). I've worked on democratic campaigns and done lots of volunteer work for pro-choice organizations.

But I think part of it for me is that I didn't grow up with these beliefs. My dad is basically libertarian or Republican, depending on the issue or day. My mom is liberal but was raised super conservative Catholic and when I was a kid she was very anti-abortion, skeptical of feminism in general, and believed homosexuality, unwed parents, etc. were sins (she has since loosened up on a lot of those things, helped by some of her kids). I arrived at my progressive beliefs through talking to people and self-examination. I took philosophy classes in college and it helped give me a framework for thinking through beliefs and needing a way to support assertions about the way the world should be or the way people should act, or the role of government. I've learned a lot over the years, from liberals, conservatives, moderates, socialists, hard-core capitalists. I've also spent a lot of time both abroad and working/living/socializing with people from other countries, and discovered that the American-style left-right dynamic doesn't always translate and there are lots of ways to look at these issues that we don't really even contemplate here.

I think my opinions are "right" -- I've put a lot of effort into developing them. But I've held "wrong" opinions enough times in the past, only to learn and correct them, that I think it's arrogant for me to tell anyone that they must be wrong about everything 100%.

So the idea of cancelling people... it just bothers me. People should be given space to evolve. And if you think you are done evolving, I question your judgment. And none of us is going to learn anything if we don't talk to each other. I'm NOT moderate and find a lot of moderates sort of ridiculous in their beliefs, but the one thing I think moderates get right these days is the belief that conversation and compromise is good for us. When we retreat to our corners and just shut down, we might as well give up. We'll never accomplish any of our goals that way.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kind of wondering if this is a former coworker of mine. This person didn’t say anything technically “racist” (like a slur) but had a classic white person fox-news meltdown in a meeting and when called on it - doubled down. Multiple times.

Ironically, what you’ve just said is incredibly racist, and I doubt you realize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kind of wondering if this is a former coworker of mine. This person didn’t say anything technically “racist” (like a slur) but had a classic white person fox-news meltdown in a meeting and when called on it - doubled down. Multiple times.

Ironically, what you’ve just said is incredibly racist, and I doubt you realize it.

She doesn't realize it bcs there is nothing to realize. You, on the other hand, are embracing the narrative that white people are now the victims. What garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

] Nor was there such a thing as a poor "immigrant" around the turn of the 19 to 20 centuries. They had money to leave.

This is not accurate.

Many, if not most, undocumented immigrants today are poor. But some of these poor immigrants pay coyotes thousands for passage. Paying to come here doesn't mean one isn't poor at all.

100 years ago, many immigrants were very poor too. My husband's father lived in an apartment with 15 people (multiple adults). They could only bathe 1 day a week. He had to wear the same jacket the entirety of high school and meat was a rare treat, like pig knuckles in soup. His mother was illiterate - she was a child laborer in the mountains, carrying pails up and down a mountain. Her father had to live in a boarding home of men to save the cash to bring her here. He inhaled food until the day he died because in boarding homes, if you didn't eat fast, you didn't eat. My husband's father's father was a child laborer too. He worked to earn a few cents a day to buy bones to make bone soup. His father had his face blown off and could not work, but survived. These were very poor people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you tell us what you said, you are a racist. Bcs not posting what you said means you know it was wrong.

No, it’s protecting my identity. What I said was NOT wrong.

So you say. I had a guy at work rant at me about how he was labeled a racist for saying we are all IMMIGRANTS here unless we are native, and what is racist about that?
Honestly, at this point, you are coming as horribly defensive and a bigot. Narcissist as well.

Are you trying to say the guy at work said something wrong?

Yes, 100%. I am an immigrant here; he is not.I immigrated to this county, whereas his family was colonists. Are we calling colonists immigrants now? No doubt this is op, who is a bigot.

How do you know his family were colonists? Don't assume that is true for all white people.

Bcs he said We Are All Immigrants Here.

My family (poor, uneducated immigrants from Ireland and Germany) immigrated to the US around the turn of the 20th century with nothing. I come from an immigrant family. I'm 4th gen and feel extremely fortunate about the sacrifices they made, but I also don't forget where I came from. If I said the US is "a nation of immigrants" does that make me a colonist and a bigot?

Yes. Bcs you have been a U.S. citizen for over a century. And North America was colonized and invaded. As mentioned, Anglos did not call the Vikings immigrants. There is a vast difference between you and me. I immigrated here during my lifetime. You have NOT. Nor was there such a thing as a poor "immigrant" around the turn of the 19 to 20 centuries. They had money to leave.
I will never been see as an American, even though I have been one since 1996. You know it, I know it, all the people here know it. So, enough with your BS. You are not an immigrant. Long ago, your ancestors took a ship here, not you. Facts matter. Nation of immigrants, a nation of invaders, a nation of colonists, not we are all immigrants here.

I will bite. You are right, despite being here for 27 years, I do not consider you an American. If you come to this country and denigrate its people, history and institutions, you are not an American. You are here solely to take from its economy, which makes you a leech, not a citizen. Change your tune and you will be welcomed.

+1000

So you are all in favor of removing the First Amendment? And I am not American enough for YOU?

You can say whatever you want. And others can say whatever they want in response to you, too.

You don't even understand what the first amendment is even about. It's about the government not interfering in someone's speech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the weird "cancelled" threads lately?

They read like they are all written by the same.person..

Clearly it’s the same 1-2 people starting the threads. They do a terrible job of disguising their writing style.

NP. I created one or two threads on cancel culture over the years.

But I didn’t create any recent ones.

Cancel culture is toxic!! It’s destroying our society.

Cancel culture needs to end immediately. The universities need to lead on ending cancel culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the weird "cancelled" threads lately?

They read like they are all written by the same.person..

Clearly it’s the same 1-2 people starting the threads. They do a terrible job of disguising their writing style.

NP. I created one or two threads on cancel culture over the years.

But I didn’t create any recent ones.

Cancel culture is toxic!! It’s destroying our society.

Cancel culture needs to end immediately. The universities need to lead on ending cancel culture.

I don't think cancel culture is terrible. It's healthy. It means people who say hateful things don't get our attention and money.

That's' not the scenario OP has laid out, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think what happened to you is that everyone already didn’t like you, for whatever reason. People who are liked and respected don’t get “canceled” for one mistake or ill-considered comment. If these were your colleagues, there was already a problem.

This is not true. There are many people who are bound to an orthodoxy (worse than any religion) that makes them cut off friends and family who violate any facet of their beliefs. Just watched a bizarre situation when we hosted some of my son's friends for Spring Break. We had a policy discussion over dinner on cartel violence at the border and two of them spent an entire day crying in a bedroom. I want to say that "you are an adult now, use your words to make a policy argument." But somehow that discussion was so egregious that he has been cut-off as being "anti-immigrant" by those two after four years of friendship (and hosting them). So just think of how little co-workers could value you.

I said to a friend over Spring Break that I don't believe in disengaging from people who hold different views. He looked stunned and said, "you don't?" I said no but offered no explanation and he changed the subject. Even tolerance is taboo these days.

What level of disagreement tho?

I'm not going to speak to people who actively support laws that oppress me (I'm gay). That means that person fundamentally opposes my right to exist. Now, I also won't punch them or TP their house. I just won't ever speak to them.

The conversation had no nuance. I was explaining that I am okay being friends with people who hold different views. That's it. It was in the context of living in an area that was well balanced across the political spectrum (rather than being simply liberal).

I'm even okay with people believing in laws that I think are oppressive toward me. Just in general, I think that living in integrated cultures is okay. I have also lived in other countries that are more conservative than the US and that's okay too. I respect their views and think most people come from a fundamentally good and decent place, even if I disagree with their conclusions. I have always tried to be open minded.

This. I am very progressive. I know people on here will assume that because I'm arguing against canceling people or indict a person entirely for one or two beliefs you find repugnant, it means I must be a Trumper. But I'm not even close -- I've never voted for a Republican for a major elective office (I might have voted for a few local politicians who were Republicans back in the 90s/00s if I was happy with their performance). I've worked on democratic campaigns and done lots of volunteer work for pro-choice organizations.

But I think part of it for me is that I didn't grow up with these beliefs. My dad is basically libertarian or Republican, depending on the issue or day. My mom is liberal but was raised super conservative Catholic and when I was a kid she was very anti-abortion, skeptical of feminism in general, and believed homosexuality, unwed parents, etc. were sins (she has since loosened up on a lot of those things, helped by some of her kids). I arrived at my progressive beliefs through talking to people and self-examination. I took philosophy classes in college and it helped give me a framework for thinking through beliefs and needing a way to support assertions about the way the world should be or the way people should act, or the role of government. I've learned a lot over the years, from liberals, conservatives, moderates, socialists, hard-core capitalists. I've also spent a lot of time both abroad and working/living/socializing with people from other countries, and discovered that the American-style left-right dynamic doesn't always translate and there are lots of ways to look at these issues that we don't really even contemplate here.

I think my opinions are "right" -- I've put a lot of effort into developing them. But I've held "wrong" opinions enough times in the past, only to learn and correct them, that I think it's arrogant for me to tell anyone that they must be wrong about everything 100%.

So the idea of cancelling people... it just bothers me. People should be given space to evolve. And if you think you are done evolving, I question your judgment. And none of us is going to learn anything if we don't talk to each other. I'm NOT moderate and find a lot of moderates sort of ridiculous in their beliefs, but the one thing I think moderates get right these days is the belief that conversation and compromise is good for us. When we retreat to our corners and just shut down, we might as well give up. We'll never accomplish any of our goals that way.

This. I'm not progressive but I'm very liberal. To me, being liberal also includes listening to other people's views, be okay with them holding views that don't agree with my own, and then NOT thinking that they are the devil. I've worked very hard at this. But, this is now opposite of what is acceptable for someone on the left. I disagree with the yelling past each other and knee jerk reactions. It's not healthy for our society.