SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, every marriage would be destroyed in this kind of situation. Men just don’t find it attractive.

That doesn’t make any sense. The primary role of a wife was to raise kids and maintain the household since the beginning of time. Yes some women worked outside of the home or somehow earned a living, but the identity of a wife was raising kids and taking care of the home.

That’s why I don’t really buy the posts saying men are turned off by a SAHM and want a professional woman who looks good in meetings. This goes against biological desire. A woman having a high earning job in an office is something relatively new. To say that now a man wants that sexually is too much of a change in a short period of time.

The notion of a woman staying at home to organize carpools and activity schedules is pretty new too. I don't think men find that very hot either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

I work in law and I have seen this too.

I’ve also seen men who work crazy hours be derisive about the fact that their sahm wife who’s doing ninety percent of the childcare has child care help. “Can’t believe we have a nanny so my wife can go to the gym.” I work and don’t even have kids but I always tuck such comments away as evidence that the guy is kind of an ass.

Well, I think the issue is that in 2023, law firm partnership is increasingly comprised of women, or men with wives who work. So the partners with Sahws are no longer the norm. And these guys are seeing themselves surrounded by dual working couples who have happy marriages and kids. Then their wife complains to them every day about how tired she is, and how she needs more help, and the guy starts to realize his wife may be a little disappointing.

I am a partner at a law firm and my wife only works part time for a nonprofit legal org and is otherwise a SAHM. I don't feel this way at all. I look at the two working parent families and there is far more tension than in my marriage, and the kids in those families act, by and large, as if they're both coddled and neglected. I can't believe how much time these kids spend with nannies who are poorly educated and seem to make little effort to discipline the kids. So, yes, my wife is a lawyer and could make a lot more money, but I'd rather have her available for the kids (and family more generally) and am happy she wants to do that. And she can spend whatever she wants, although she's pretty practical and frugal by nature.

Maybe you and your wife have a good marriage and are good parents. I think it’s a little judgmental to think that any marital issues or kid behavioral issues can be contributed to both parents working full time…I’m glad you make enough money so your wife can have time for childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, every marriage would be destroyed in this kind of situation. Men just don’t find it attractive.

That doesn’t make any sense. The primary role of a wife was to raise kids and maintain the household since the beginning of time. Yes some women worked outside of the home or somehow earned a living, but the identity of a wife was raising kids and taking care of the home.

That’s why I don’t really buy the posts saying men are turned off by a SAHM and want a professional woman who looks good in meetings. This goes against biological desire. A woman having a high earning job in an office is something relatively new. To say that now a man wants that sexually is too much of a change in a short period of time.

The notion of a woman staying at home to organize carpools and activity schedules is pretty new too. I don't think men find that very hot either.

okay but if that’s all that you think a SAHM is doing then you obviously are extremely biased. Pre 1980 you would have looked down on every MC/UMC white woman in America. It seems like you place a lot of value on paid employment as opposed to homemaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

I work in law and I have seen this too.

I’ve also seen men who work crazy hours be derisive about the fact that their sahm wife who’s doing ninety percent of the childcare has child care help. “Can’t believe we have a nanny so my wife can go to the gym.” I work and don’t even have kids but I always tuck such comments away as evidence that the guy is kind of an ass.

Well, I think the issue is that in 2023, law firm partnership is increasingly comprised of women, or men with wives who work. So the partners with Sahws are no longer the norm. And these guys are seeing themselves surrounded by dual working couples who have happy marriages and kids. Then their wife complains to them every day about how tired she is, and how she needs more help, and the guy starts to realize his wife may be a little disappointing.

I am a partner at a law firm and my wife only works part time for a nonprofit legal org and is otherwise a SAHM. I don't feel this way at all. I look at the two working parent families and there is far more tension than in my marriage, and the kids in those families act, by and large, as if they're both coddled and neglected. I can't believe how much time these kids spend with nannies who are poorly educated and seem to make little effort to discipline the kids. So, yes, my wife is a lawyer and could make a lot more money, but I'd rather have her available for the kids (and family more generally) and am happy she wants to do that. And she can spend whatever she wants, although she's pretty practical and frugal by nature.

Maybe you and your wife have a good marriage and are good parents. I think it’s a little judgmental to think that any marital issues or kid behavioral issues can be contributed to both parents working full time…I’m glad you make enough money so your wife can have time for childcare.

DP. I do think there are a lot of households where there’s a tremendous amount of stress from both couples working. Especially if they are demanding jobs. The biggest stressor to me is that the woman often has limited time with her kids so she isn’t able to devote enough time to only her husband.

[Anonymous]

It is weird to me how many people in this thread are talking about the parenting and marriages of law firm partners. In general this is not a group whose parenting and marriages should be admired. That holds true for marriages with a SAHP or two working parents. At least from the outside, law firm partner marriages seem to have a much higher than average rate of cheating, kids with issues, and spectacularly nasty divorces compared to other marriages, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a SAH or WOH marriage. I find it odd that they appear as examples so often in this thread.

[Anonymous]

There is no formula to change dynamics. If you marry a jerk, they will be one no matter what your roles. Managing stress is important for sahms and wohms.

It is easy to spot those in bad marriages as they accuse/ lash out. I can tell who has issues by their posts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is weird to me how many people in this thread are talking about the parenting and marriages of law firm partners. In general this is not a group whose parenting and marriages should be admired. That holds true for marriages with a SAHP or two working parents. At least from the outside, law firm partner marriages seem to have a much higher than average rate of cheating, kids with issues, and spectacularly nasty divorces compared to other marriages, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a SAH or WOH marriage. I find it odd that they appear as examples so often in this thread.

+1

Law firm partners also tend to work long hours and actually have no time to be with the kids. In that scenario a SAHM might make more sense.

[Anonymous]

Fwiw, my husband works in finance. I SAHM because I have a chronic health condition. Also because he makes a lot of money, so we don’t need income from my side, and because when his first employer IPO’d he got a couple million out of it. He has since moved on to another job that requires less than 40 hours a week. High degree of flexibility, wfh, enjoys the people he works with, makes high six figures easy, etc. We’ve been together since college so our marriage is very egalitarian. He is super hands on with the kids and house. We got married young and bought our first house in the 09 crash and have climbed the property ladder through buying and selling at the right times.

I don’t relate at all to the law firm stuff or lawyer culture people talk about. Sounds horrible. You can’t assume everyone is stuck in that situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird to me how many people in this thread are talking about the parenting and marriages of law firm partners. In general this is not a group whose parenting and marriages should be admired. That holds true for marriages with a SAHP or two working parents. At least from the outside, law firm partner marriages seem to have a much higher than average rate of cheating, kids with issues, and spectacularly nasty divorces compared to other marriages, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a SAH or WOH marriage. I find it odd that they appear as examples so often in this thread.

+1

Law firm partners also tend to work long hours and actually have no time to be with the kids. In that scenario a SAHM might make more sense.

Yes, but having a SAHM doesn’t seem to fix the underlying issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is weird to me how many people in this thread are talking about the parenting and marriages of law firm partners. In general this is not a group whose parenting and marriages should be admired. That holds true for marriages with a SAHP or two working parents. At least from the outside, law firm partner marriages seem to have a much higher than average rate of cheating, kids with issues, and spectacularly nasty divorces compared to other marriages, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a SAH or WOH marriage. I find it odd that they appear as examples so often in this thread.

Agree. Your average law firm partner will likely dislike you no matter what you do. A law firm partner putting down his SAHM isn’t reflective of too much besides he is miserable. If she worked and was a CEO he’d probably have a problem with that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, my husband works in finance. I SAHM because I have a chronic health condition. Also because he makes a lot of money, so we don’t need income from my side, and because when his first employer IPO’d he got a couple million out of it. He has since moved on to another job that requires less than 40 hours a week. High degree of flexibility, wfh, enjoys the people he works with, makes high six figures easy, etc. We’ve been together since college so our marriage is very egalitarian. He is super hands on with the kids and house. We got married young and bought our first house in the 09 crash and have climbed the property ladder through buying and selling at the right times.

I don’t relate at all to the law firm stuff or lawyer culture people talk about. Sounds horrible. You can’t assume everyone is stuck in that situation.

Why so defensive? Nobody said anything about law firms partner marriages being representative. Your lightning-quick defensiveness here is very odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, my husband works in finance. I SAHM because I have a chronic health condition. Also because he makes a lot of money, so we don’t need income from my side, and because when his first employer IPO’d he got a couple million out of it. He has since moved on to another job that requires less than 40 hours a week. High degree of flexibility, wfh, enjoys the people he works with, makes high six figures easy, etc. We’ve been together since college so our marriage is very egalitarian. He is super hands on with the kids and house. We got married young and bought our first house in the 09 crash and have climbed the property ladder through buying and selling at the right times.

I don’t relate at all to the law firm stuff or lawyer culture people talk about. Sounds horrible. You can’t assume everyone is stuck in that situation.

Why so defensive? Nobody said anything about law firms partner marriages being representative. Your lightning-quick defensiveness here is very odd.

The past couple pages are all about the sins of male law partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, my husband works in finance. I SAHM because I have a chronic health condition. Also because he makes a lot of money, so we don’t need income from my side, and because when his first employer IPO’d he got a couple million out of it. He has since moved on to another job that requires less than 40 hours a week. High degree of flexibility, wfh, enjoys the people he works with, makes high six figures easy, etc. We’ve been together since college so our marriage is very egalitarian. He is super hands on with the kids and house. We got married young and bought our first house in the 09 crash and have climbed the property ladder through buying and selling at the right times.

I don’t relate at all to the law firm stuff or lawyer culture people talk about. Sounds horrible. You can’t assume everyone is stuck in that situation.

Why so defensive? Nobody said anything about law firms partner marriages being representative. Your lightning-quick defensiveness here is very odd.

The past couple pages are all about the sins of male law partners.

Sure. But literally nobody said or believes that they are representative and your panicked-sounding defensiveness comes across as weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird to me how many people in this thread are talking about the parenting and marriages of law firm partners. In general this is not a group whose parenting and marriages should be admired. That holds true for marriages with a SAHP or two working parents. At least from the outside, law firm partner marriages seem to have a much higher than average rate of cheating, kids with issues, and spectacularly nasty divorces compared to other marriages, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a SAH or WOH marriage. I find it odd that they appear as examples so often in this thread.

Agree. Your average law firm partner will likely dislike you no matter what you do. A law firm partner putting down his SAHM isn’t reflective of too much besides he is miserable. If she worked and was a CEO he’d probably have a problem with that too.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, my husband works in finance. I SAHM because I have a chronic health condition. Also because he makes a lot of money, so we don’t need income from my side, and because when his first employer IPO’d he got a couple million out of it. He has since moved on to another job that requires less than 40 hours a week. High degree of flexibility, wfh, enjoys the people he works with, makes high six figures easy, etc. We’ve been together since college so our marriage is very egalitarian. He is super hands on with the kids and house. We got married young and bought our first house in the 09 crash and have climbed the property ladder through buying and selling at the right times.

I don’t relate at all to the law firm stuff or lawyer culture people talk about. Sounds horrible. You can’t assume everyone is stuck in that situation.

Why so defensive? Nobody said anything about law firms partner marriages being representative. Your lightning-quick defensiveness here is very odd.

The past couple pages are all about the sins of male law partners.

Sure. But literally nobody said or believes that they are representative and your panicked-sounding defensiveness comes across as weird.

That post doesn’t sound panicked.