Is it ethical of me to cut off my 75 yo sister financially? - more inside

[Anonymous]

If you can't get enough money for condo, then make it a one or two bedroom rental. You can't force her not to have her friend over, or even stay there, especially not when you aren't there.

You CAN make sure she has a roof over her head, electricity and water, a comfortable place to sleep, and basic needs met. If you are concerned that cash might be diverted, pay things directly where you can -- like the rent -- and in a way that makes it harder to divert when you can't, such as gift certificates to a taxi or Uber service, or an "account" with them that you put money into. Have her medical bills sent to you. Have a standing order of basic groceries delivered on a regular basis.

You don't have to do that. It is the gentlest way to make sure she is provided for despite being challenged in many areas. It gives you a way to look back later and know you did your best.

I mean, you can't force her to sleep there, or not, I dunno, have her roommate sell the groceries for weed, or something. But you can set it up so that with minimal emotional involvement, her needs are met. When you take care of the basics, she can use SS or whatever other income she has at her discretion. And you won't be fielding calls all the time about running short, because needs are met, and you can be clear that wants are her purview.

Good luck, OP. This is so much harder than anyone realizes until they go through it.

[Anonymous]

Yes I think it’s fine. My parents always ruin what I do for them, it’s money down the drain. I am only giving what I am comfortable giving. They live in squalor but whatever I tried to do to help is just being wasted. Like, a washing machine that is never used. So I stopped. I buy them food and give them a little money and bring gifts, ready to see those gifts buried under piles of trash (some are being used).
It’s an uphill battle.

[Anonymous]

OP you have had excellent advice in terms of welfare checks etc.

My instinct would be possibly to sign the property over to her, and be done with it. But then I'm harsh and a bit cut and run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP you have had excellent advice in terms of welfare checks etc.

My instinct would be possibly to sign the property over to her, and be done with it. But then I'm harsh and a bit cut and run.

Yep. This. I may end up with a similar sister situation someday and I’ve already promised myself I won’t try and save her. She’ll get what she’s owed from my parents’ estate and then I’m done. She can hang herself or save herself with that rope.

[Anonymous]

Sell house. Get her in government subsidized housing. Put cash in trust for you to give her a (surely small) allowance. Most hands-off outcome and gives her housing situation a bit more oversight.

[Anonymous]

You're in a tough spot. If she is mentally competent then there is not much you can do about her choices, financial or otherwise. However, I think that you need to get out from under this financially because your sister's behavior and that of this friend could really begin to harm you financially, beyond the mental stress you're experiencing now.

You should consult an attorney. Basically you need to end the trust and, in essence, sign a quit claim deed for the home over to your sister. This will mean that you will deprive yourself of your share of the $80k profit (which you would only get if you sell). Then you will need to write your sister a letter explicitly stating that the trust has been ended, the house has been signed over to her, that you no longer own the house and that you are no longer responsible for any expenses related to the home. Be sure to have the change in homeownership recorded so that you (the trust) are not on public records as owning the home.

I also agree that you need to call elder services for your jurisdiction and put your sister on their radar.

[Anonymous]

You need to reach out to a social worker in your sister's area before you change anything about how you deal with her. The social worker can help your sister get housing and navigate social services, but the house will have to be sold and assets divided according to the trust.

[Anonymous]

You talk about the roommate, but you do realize that your sister is mentally ill? Everything that you outlined is indicative of a mental health problem you need to contact an agency where they live, elder care, social services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, sister and roommate are “codependent”. They’ve lived together for 10+ years. Roommate helps sister with bill paying, medical forms, accessing government assistance,etc.so yes, she helps my sister, but she also screams at her, hoards, doesn’t take of the house, won’t allow anyone in the house including family, etc. I am exhausted dealing with her behavior. If my sister chooses to live with that behavior, I can accept that, but I no longer wish to deal with this woman’s rude, abusive behavior. Hence my desire to remove myself from the situation.

Selling house would leave us with maybe $80k afte realtor fees. Meaning, that’s all the money she would have to invest in a condo or LTC facility. Not nearly enough to sustain her the rest of her life. I can’t pay taxes and upkeep on a new place for her either, if she were to move somewhere else.

Next case scenario would be - sister stays in house without roommate and her needs could be met by visiting aids paid for by Medicaid. But she doesn’t want this. She doesn’t want a new place. She wants to stay in the house with roommate.

A HUGE thank you to everyone who has replied. I really appreciate all your thoughts and ideas.

To clarify, I am not close with my sister. We are pleasant, but she typically only calls when she needs money and rarely has ever wished me happy birthday in all these years. It’s not a typical sisterly relationship.

Look, Hi empathize with you I really do this is a sad, difficult and challenging situation. But you really need to wake up and stop acting like your sister is just making a batch oysters and now that your sister is seriously seriously mentally ill and you need to deal with it from that standpoint and stop focusing on the other lady.

[Anonymous]

OP, can you clarify - is this your sister or your aunt?

"...Further, my aunt is happy and content and does not feel endangered or unsafe. AND "As trustee I was not given the responsibility to care for my sister. ..."

Not that it makes a lot of difference necessarily but it would be good to know if you are talking about an aunt or a sister. If it is your sister we can assume you may be similar in age range, which makes your own situation relevant. If it is your aunt then there may be significant age difference.

FWIW, I am in this situation with my brother who is also bipolar, has history of substance abuse, etc. Thankfully he has no "roommate" but that can change in a minute if he meets some other lost soul and lets them move in. He can be verbally abusive so I do have to deal with that.

He was sold our mother's house many years ago (upon her death) at a very small price and he could not take care of it. Within a short period of time it was foreclosed on and he wound up drifting for many years and eventually living in his car.

When he finally started getting social security he found a house he was able to rent. His SS covers the rent and nothing else. He gets a food stamp/subsidy which is enough for him to eat. I also got him qualified for dual Medicaid/Medicare since his income is so low. When/if serious medical or care issues arise he is at least pre-qualified for Medicaid.

I (directly) pay for his utilities, car insurance for his 20+ year old car and some other essentials like clothing. He does a few odd jobs here or there so he has a little bit of pocket money.

If he had a roommate who was abusive to me or if he somehow begins to have substance abuse issues again, I'd stop assisting him and would make it very clear to him why I'd be stopping. I'm at an age where I cannot deal with it myself anymore.

If I were in your situation, I'd tell your aunt/sister that you have to sell the house. With the help of local senior services, I'd find a place for her to rent WITH ONLY HER NAME ON THE LEASE. Use any proceeds from the house to pay for her rent. Sell it as-is.

If necessary, have authorities w/help of senior services move the roommate out. It may sound cruel but the other woman has to fend for herself.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure what the right answer is, but would your sister meet you alone, in person? Can you go in the house? (I mean legally you can, but is crazy roommate keeping you out as well?)

I'd want to get my own eyes on the situation before I made a decision.

Frankly, it sounds like this may be a hoarder-type situation. And if they aren't keeping up basic maintenance the house may be worth much less than $100k or nothing.

If you don't need the $ from the sale of this house I would tend towards letting it go and signing over to your sister. From what you describe I don't see the solution of getting her a condo as feasible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve called social services and was told if the inhabitants of the house refuse to allow them to enter then they can not investigate the living conditions. I’ve also called law enforcement and the fire dept. - same response. If they won’t allow entrance, there’s nothing anyone can do to help. Further, my aunt is happy and content and does not feel endangered or unsafe.

As trustee I was not given the responsibility to care for my sister. I just have the responsibility to manage the trust - and all that is in the trust is a deed to this property.

Again, thank you.

Sorry for typos and errors. I’m typing on a small tablet.

Is this your sister or your aunt OP?

[Anonymous]

I would never let my sister go homeless or hungry. It seems obvious that your sister has mental and emotional problems and it is also obvious that you are only concerned with you and your creature comforts. By all means, sell the house and leave your sister on the streets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve called social services and was told if the inhabitants of the house refuse to allow them to enter then they can not investigate the living conditions. I’ve also called law enforcement and the fire dept. - same response. If they won’t allow entrance, there’s nothing anyone can do to help. Further, my aunt is happy and content and does not feel endangered or unsafe.

As trustee I was not given the responsibility to care for my sister. I just have the responsibility to manage the trust - and all that is in the trust is a deed to this property.

Again, thank you.

Sorry for typos and errors. I’m typing on a small tablet.

How does your aunt come in to play?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never let my sister go homeless or hungry. It seems obvious that your sister has mental and emotional problems and it is also obvious that you are only concerned with you and your creature comforts. By all means, sell the house and leave your sister on the streets.

OK. Then what would you have OP do, specifically? She is asking for clear suggestions she could act on.