United Methodist Church schism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I thought it would come to this and it has. The UMC will split into two denominations with the UMC maintaining the reconciling ministry allowing LGBT clergy and allowing clergy to perform gay marriages.

A new "traditional Methodist" denomination will spin off that will follow the traditional plan that was voted on last year and set to be implemented starting yesterday that would bar clergy from conducting gay marriages and ordaining gay clergy.

I really think it is for the best. Much like this country, the UMC has been sharply divided and polarized by this difference in opinion with predominantly the non-US churches wanting to follow the traditional plan and about 3/4 of the American churches that wanted to continue with the former policies. The non-US churches and the smaller demographic of conservative US churches will spin off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/03/united-methodist-church-is-expected-split-over-gay-marriage-disagreement-fracturing-nations-third-largest-denomination/

I remember when this happened to the Episcopalians. I would not be opposed to it in my own faith, Catholicism, if it mean that my daughter did not have to leave to marry the woman she loves some day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

I am in a liberal Presbyterian church that is absolutely thriving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

Methodists are watered down Catholics. Since you're so conservative, convert to Catholicism

Huh? How in the world are Methodists watered down Catholics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

Methodists are watered down Catholics. Since you're so conservative, convert to Catholicism

Huh? How in the world are Methodists watered down Catholics?

I have heard Episcopalians/Anglicans called “Catholic Lite”, but never Methodist. Perhaps the pp got them confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

Now they will have more competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I thought it would come to this and it has. The UMC will split into two denominations with the UMC maintaining the reconciling ministry allowing LGBT clergy and allowing clergy to perform gay marriages.

A new "traditional Methodist" denomination will spin off that will follow the traditional plan that was voted on last year and set to be implemented starting yesterday that would bar clergy from conducting gay marriages and ordaining gay clergy.

I really think it is for the best. Much like this country, the UMC has been sharply divided and polarized by this difference in opinion with predominantly the non-US churches wanting to follow the traditional plan and about 3/4 of the American churches that wanted to continue with the former policies. The non-US churches and the smaller demographic of conservative US churches will spin off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/03/united-methodist-church-is-expected-split-over-gay-marriage-disagreement-fracturing-nations-third-largest-denomination/

I remember when this happened to the Episcopalians. I would not be opposed to it in my own faith, Catholicism, if it mean that my daughter did not have to leave to marry the woman she loves some day.

Your daughter can marry legally in a court of law. The Catholic sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman. There are sacraments that not everyone gets — the sacrament of ordination, as an obvious example. Your daughter doesn’t have to leave Catholicism over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

Well lucky for you, you can have your hate church back.

One thing this will be good for is forcing the bigots to own it openly.

DP. Your attitude is why I also left a liberal Protestant Church. It’s “hate” if you think the focus of Christianity should be on, you know, Christianity and not cheerleading in the culture wars and for political causes? Okay, enjoy your LGBT advocacy organization that you call church? Why not just get yourself a job at the Human Rights Campaign?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

I am in a liberal Presbyterian church that is absolutely thriving.

I’m not sure why you think your individual church counters the decades long, steep decline of mainline Presbyterianism. That’s not how this works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

I am in a liberal Presbyterian church that is absolutely thriving.

I assume you’re in this area? This super-liberal area is not representative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

Now they will have more competition.

The Methodist church abroad, which is conservative, will thrive. Here, Methodism will disappear. Thank God for the Africans, who will preserve the faith.

[Anonymous]

Well, I thought it would come to this and it has. The UMC will split into two denominations with the UMC maintaining the reconciling ministry allowing LGBT clergy and allowing clergy to perform gay marriages.

A new "traditional Methodist" denomination will spin off that will follow the traditional plan that was voted on last year and set to be implemented starting yesterday that would bar clergy from conducting gay marriages and ordaining gay clergy.

I really think it is for the best. Much like this country, the UMC has been sharply divided and polarized by this difference in opinion with predominantly the non-US churches wanting to follow the traditional plan and about 3/4 of the American churches that wanted to continue with the former policies. The non-US churches and the smaller demographic of conservative US churches will spin off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/03...ns-third-largest-denomination/


I remember when this happened to the Episcopalians. I would not be opposed to it in my own faith, Catholicism, if it mean that my daughter did not have to leave to marry the woman she loves some day.


Your daughter can marry legally in a court of law. The Catholic sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman. There are sacraments that not everyone gets — the sacrament of ordination, as an obvious example. Your daughter doesn’t have to leave Catholicism over it.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church names “homosexual acts” as “intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law,” and names “homosexual tendencies” as “objectively disordered.” A person who is married to a same-sex partner is not permitted to receive Communion. Not being able to receive the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is terribly exclusionary and a painful reminder each week that your own church considers you less than worthy. So maybe you don't have to leave, but church shouldn't be a constant source of pain and discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

I am in a liberal Presbyterian church that is absolutely thriving.

I assume you’re in this area? This super-liberal area is not representative.

I am now in the Midwest, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, I thought it would come to this and it has. The UMC will split into two denominations with the UMC maintaining the reconciling ministry allowing LGBT clergy and allowing clergy to perform gay marriages.

A new "traditional Methodist" denomination will spin off that will follow the traditional plan that was voted on last year and set to be implemented starting yesterday that would bar clergy from conducting gay marriages and ordaining gay clergy.

I really think it is for the best. Much like this country, the UMC has been sharply divided and polarized by this difference in opinion with predominantly the non-US churches wanting to follow the traditional plan and about 3/4 of the American churches that wanted to continue with the former policies. The non-US churches and the smaller demographic of conservative US churches will spin off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/03...ns-third-largest-denomination/


I remember when this happened to the Episcopalians. I would not be opposed to it in my own faith, Catholicism, if it mean that my daughter did not have to leave to marry the woman she loves some day.


Your daughter can marry legally in a court of law. The Catholic sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman. There are sacraments that not everyone gets — the sacrament of ordination, as an obvious example. Your daughter doesn’t have to leave Catholicism over it.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church names “homosexual acts” as “intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law,” and names “homosexual tendencies” as “objectively disordered.” A person who is married to a same-sex partner is not permitted to receive Communion. Not being able to receive the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is terribly exclusionary and a painful reminder each week that your own church considers you less than worthy. So maybe you don't have to leave, but church shouldn't be a constant source of pain and discrimination.

Please cite the Catechism passage that says she can’t receive communion. You can’t because that is NOT true. There are some uber-conservative parishes that make a show of denying communion to people like Joe Biden to make a point, but the vast majority of parishes give communion to all us sinners (divorced, criminals, etc.) because the actual Catholic teaching is that for all we know the person’s heart at that moment may have been reconciled to God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what the future holds for the UMC. If they go the route of Episcopal churches, then it will be a slow death. Is liberalism the death of many mainline Protestant churches? I see so many beautiful and historical churches with empty seats. It seems like many mainline Christian denominations are loosing membership besides their converts in Africa and in Asia. However, mega conservative churches and prosperity preaching churches are growing like weeds all over the country.

I began witnessing the division of the UMC 22 years ago. I am just surprised that it took this long for a schism to occur.

I think it will follow the trend of the divided Presbyterians — the conservative PCA is thriving while the liberal PCUSA is losing members.

I am in a liberal Presbyterian church that is absolutely thriving.

I assume you’re in this area? This super-liberal area is not representative.

I am now in the Midwest, actually.

Where, exactly? You know you’re not representative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, I thought it would come to this and it has. The UMC will split into two denominations with the UMC maintaining the reconciling ministry allowing LGBT clergy and allowing clergy to perform gay marriages.

A new "traditional Methodist" denomination will spin off that will follow the traditional plan that was voted on last year and set to be implemented starting yesterday that would bar clergy from conducting gay marriages and ordaining gay clergy.

I really think it is for the best. Much like this country, the UMC has been sharply divided and polarized by this difference in opinion with predominantly the non-US churches wanting to follow the traditional plan and about 3/4 of the American churches that wanted to continue with the former policies. The non-US churches and the smaller demographic of conservative US churches will spin off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/03...ns-third-largest-denomination/


I remember when this happened to the Episcopalians. I would not be opposed to it in my own faith, Catholicism, if it mean that my daughter did not have to leave to marry the woman she loves some day.


Your daughter can marry legally in a court of law. The Catholic sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman. There are sacraments that not everyone gets — the sacrament of ordination, as an obvious example. Your daughter doesn’t have to leave Catholicism over it.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church names “homosexual acts” as “intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law,” and names “homosexual tendencies” as “objectively disordered.” A person who is married to a same-sex partner is not permitted to receive Communion. Not being able to receive the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is terribly exclusionary and a painful reminder each week that your own church considers you less than worthy. So maybe you don't have to leave, but church shouldn't be a constant source of pain and discrimination.

Please cite the Catechism passage that says she can’t receive communion. You can’t because that is NOT true. There are some uber-conservative parishes that make a show of denying communion to people like Joe Biden to make a point, but the vast majority of parishes give communion to all us sinners (divorced, criminals, etc.) because the actual Catholic teaching is that for all we know the person’s heart at that moment may have been reconciled to God.

“A gay or lesbian Catholic who is living a chaste single life is a Catholic in good standing, and is entitled to participate fully in the spiritual and sacramental life of the Catholic faith community.
A gay or lesbian Catholic who regularly engages in sexual activity or is a partner in a committed personal relationship which includes regular sexual relations is entitled to participate in a limited way in the spiritual and sacramental life of the Church.“