How did you deal with your DS or DD during parental alienation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

Its ok you acted as a parent and took away the phone. That is discipline, not a money issue. If she broke her phone and refused to give you the codes/passwords, she loses the privilege. Its also ok you, on your time do not allow her to see a friend who is a bad influence but you cannot control what she does on Mom's time or in Mom's home. If Mom provides her a phone to use on her parenting time, that's ok. But, you have the right, and its being a good parent to monitor her phone use and take it away if appropiate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

You need serious counseling. It's clear why you are divorced.

You have the inability to see how your actions have consequences and you are always blaming others outside of yourself for your predicament.

OP here. WOW, dcum never fails to absolutely leap screaming into judgement when people are looking for help and perspective.

Yes, my actions have consequences. For one, I'm stricter with discipline and she doesn't like it. Her mother frequently gives in to her and lets DD bully her into submission. How do I know this? DD2.

I'm specifically looking at advice like:

Appeal to the child’s conscience that he or she is rejecting, hurting, and humiliating an innocent party who cares for that child

Appeal to the child’s critical thinking (intelligence and emotions) and make the child aware of the unfairness and cruelty in rejecting a loving parent.

Make the child aware that they may lose a good parent if the process of alienation continues.

Passivity and tolerance are ineffective when dealing with parental alienation. What is required is confrontation of a very powerful type in order to counteract the effects of the alienation and to reverse it.

(source: http://www.parental-alienation.info/publications/24-sigofparalisynandhowtocouitseff.htm)

Child doesn't understand how she is treating you or the impact. That takes parenting to help her understand. Its not going to happen. Mom is more flexible and wants to be the good parent. She isn't going to support you and that will cause alienation. You need to work with Mom to get on the same parenting page or find another way to work with your daughter. You keep up your parenting time and parenting. You are putting too much on your child. Some of this is normal in any household where kids split the parents. The difference is how both parents deal with it and deal with it together. This doesn't sound like alienation but it sounds like you are a stricter parent and Mom is not, so she's aligning with Mom so she can get what she wants. Alienation is when Mom specifically stops visits, refuses phone contact, etc. This is pre-alienation or the start but this is not full alienation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

So, after a signifiant amount of time going back and forth, she decided she wants a say in the matter, and asked to stay with mom for a few extra days, and you're crying parental alienation and threatening to cancel her activities?

It is not unusual or alarming for a teenager to start having strong opinions about where they stay. Making it all about you, rather than realizing that she's in a difficult situation that you and ex created, and that trying to take control is a natural developmentally appropriate response to the situation.

Email back and say "Thanks for letting me know. I'll miss you but I understand. I hope I see you soon! Love, Dad."

[Anonymous]

It’s your job to love your child, not your child’s job to love you.

Your child is suffering. Your feelings should not even be a consideration.

Check out Dr. Childress and Erasing Family

[Anonymous]

Your a control freak who feels like you have lost control and you are letting the loss of control turn into anger. The root of most anger is the inability to control.

You are trying to punish your child with the intent to control her.

You need to recognize your reaction to this situation is toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

OK, I see. Thanks for the clarification. In your shoes, I think I'd give a little while seeking family counseling. So I'd respond that you're so sorry to hear that she feels that way, and let's work out an arrangement she'd be happier with. For me, I'd be willing to let her off the hook for overnights at this age but not give up visitation altogether. Would you be OK with 2 weekday afternoons/dinners and one weekend day a week? And start family counseling with her on one of the afternoons that you have her.

Does anyone else live at your house? Her email was phrased oddly, even if written by your ex. She didn't say seeing you was a problem, but that your house was. If there's someone at your house (GF, wife, stepkids) that changes things too.

Finally, remember that she's just 14. Yes, she is to some extent an independent actor, but she's also very young. 12-16 is a really, really tough age for most girls. When in doubt, err on the side of understanding.

[Anonymous]

It's clear she hates the girlfriend/wife/baby momma.

See her without all your other family drama. Either take her somewhere away from family #2 or send your 2nd family away for her visits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

So, after a signifiant amount of time going back and forth, she decided she wants a say in the matter, and asked to stay with mom for a few extra days, and you're crying parental alienation and threatening to cancel her activities?

It is not unusual or alarming for a teenager to start having strong opinions about where they stay. Making it all about you, rather than realizing that she's in a difficult situation that you and ex created, and that trying to take control is a natural developmentally appropriate response to the situation.

Email back and say "Thanks for letting me know. I'll miss you but I understand. I hope I see you soon! Love, Dad."

You pick up your child as scheduled and do the activities and everything as planned. You don't give in and be ok with her not coming.

[Anonymous]

The change in living status seems like a serious issue that should be discussed in person rather than via email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

Respond with a firm, "No, I will see you Tuesday per the usual schedule. I'm looking forward to your basketball game Thursday. Love you Larla!"

Don't allow a change in the schedule - for either daughter.

And while some of this might be on the mom, realize that 14years is a shitty age, and attitudes are shitty at that age. I recommend some family counseling (and probably individual counseling for you), but not because you're doing this wrong. Just because this is HARD, and having some professional support to navigate it might help.

[Anonymous]

^^^ you can't force a 14 yo to go to her dads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

Respond with a firm, "No, I will see you Tuesday per the usual schedule. I'm looking forward to your basketball game Thursday. Love you Larla!"

Don't allow a change in the schedule - for either daughter.

And while some of this might be on the mom, realize that 14years is a shitty age, and attitudes are shitty at that age. I recommend some family counseling (and probably individual counseling for you), but not because you're doing this wrong. Just because this is HARD, and having some professional support to navigate it might help.

This is horrible advice. This whole thread is insane. OP, your daughter said to you that your house is contributing to her emotional issues and wants to stay with her mom for awhile. Instead of trying to figure out why that is, you're trying to figure out how you can force your daughter to spend time with you. You also sound angry with your daughter and want to give her "consequences" for not spending time with you? I'm not surprised she doesn't want to see you.

My father is a selfish narcissist just like you OP. Luckily for me I'm an adult and I don't have to see him anymore. You had better get yourself together before you find yourself in the same situation.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t allow a schedule change. If mom and DD and dad want to see a therapist for child and get medical opinion on custody change, fantastic. But no way I would agree to it under circumstances described.