Help me with my totally messed up marriage, in which the abuser blames the abused

[Anonymous]

Op, I've been there too. In his moments of clarity, ex told me that he probably has PTSD from childhood. His father was a violent asshole to the whole family. So to ex it seemed normal to be rude, paranoid, impatient, violent verbally and physically. I had such a hard time getting him to talk to me calmly, or even to understand why I was offended. And of course, everything was my fault. If only i weren't so dumb and stubborn, if only I did what and how he says, we could live well together.

Anyway, we split up 4 months ago and yesterday I talked with a relationship counselor friend. I told him that feel like a failure for not empathizing enough with a badly hurt partner. And he said that if someone treats you badly like that for years, it's okay to walk away and take care of yourself. I still feel like a failure.

The point is that sadly, many of us feel your pain.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

I appreciate all the replies.

He sees a therapist, but I highly suspect that she does not understand the severity of the situation. I actually called his psychiatrist over the weekend and he did not call me back but instead contacted DH, who said that I was "overreacting" and the psychiatrist believed it.

The thing that keeps me hanging on is that this all feels SO OUT OF THE BLUE. I mean, a year to build up to this is a long time, but we had our second child 18 months ago, and when I was pregnant he was extremely loving and supportive and showed zero signs of mental health problems. We had our issues, like every marriage, but nothing, nothing, nothing resembling this.

I spoke to another of his good friends today who assured me that whatever comments DH made about my being "the violent one" are the result of his being deeply troubled and mentally ill, and he will speak to the first friend to make sure we are all on the same team and agree that a) I am not abusive and b) my DH needs help with his mood and behavior for his sake and mine (and of course our kids).

I do want to hang in there because I love him and we have this history together and I hope this is a temporary illness but I will keep all everyone has said here in mind.

[Anonymous]

OP here again. Wanted to add:

Does anyone know can things like Borderline Personality Disorder just appear suddenly in ones 30s? I thought even Bipolar typically showed up earlier than that? So I've assumed we're just dealing with depression but I admit this seems way more complicated than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - this EXACT thing happened to me in college. I was in a crappy abusive relationship. It was not hitting or violent, but very emotionally abusive. Refused to hang out with my friends or family. Told me i was stupid (i wasn't - i was at a top school). Broke up with me constantly, and then came back. Told me my friends were losers. But that he was so in love with me. Pretty standard emotional abuse.

Several times during our breakups, he had brief relationships with other women. One was another woman in our small group of friends. He told me i needed to get over it, and the problem was ME. That they were now together.

Soon thereafter, A friend/acquitence of mine invited us both to a small party . He would not have been invited but for me, but he really wanted to go. He announces he is bringing this new girlfriend (our mutual friend) even though it is MY friend.

In a heated argument about how absurb it was he wanted to bring her (we were always arguing/crying/talking about heated things - never physical or frightening) and i was a wreck and crying, i effectively collapsed into his arms with my fists on his chest. yes, i was frustrated - it wasn't a love tap. But he was 6 feet and i was 5'4 and i did not intend to any way hurt or bring pain. You can all imagine exactly what that looked like. It was a frustrated arms collapsing into his chest.

The next day he announced i had "assaulted" him and he was so traumatized by it. He wanted to report me to the police. He was considering therapy. He acknowledged that it didn't remotely hurt him, but that because i was smaller, the mere act itself was me trying to shift the power balance -- or some other absurd argument. He however said he would not report me if i simply agreed to continue to be friends with him and get over the other friend being his girlfriend. He also said he wanted us to keep having sex. Which we did - against my wants -- but because i was so scared of his accusations of assault.

It has been TWENTY years and this story still brings me to tears. What a terrible, terrible person. I'm sorry OP, i don't have any advice other than to get out.

I am so sorry PP! That sounds like an awful experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this EXACT thing happened to me in college. I was in a crappy abusive relationship. It was not hitting or violent, but very emotionally abusive. Refused to hang out with my friends or family. Told me i was stupid (i wasn't - i was at a top school). Broke up with me constantly, and then came back. Told me my friends were losers. But that he was so in love with me. Pretty standard emotional abuse.

Several times during our breakups, he had brief relationships with other women. One was another woman in our small group of friends. He told me i needed to get over it, and the problem was ME. That they were now together.

Soon thereafter, A friend/acquitence of mine invited us both to a small party . He would not have been invited but for me, but he really wanted to go. He announces he is bringing this new girlfriend (our mutual friend) even though it is MY friend.

In a heated argument about how absurb it was he wanted to bring her (we were always arguing/crying/talking about heated things - never physical or frightening) and i was a wreck and crying, i effectively collapsed into his arms with my fists on his chest. yes, i was frustrated - it wasn't a love tap. But he was 6 feet and i was 5'4 and i did not intend to any way hurt or bring pain. You can all imagine exactly what that looked like. It was a frustrated arms collapsing into his chest.

The next day he announced i had "assaulted" him and he was so traumatized by it. He wanted to report me to the police. He was considering therapy. He acknowledged that it didn't remotely hurt him, but that because i was smaller, the mere act itself was me trying to shift the power balance -- or some other absurd argument. He however said he would not report me if i simply agreed to continue to be friends with him and get over the other friend being his girlfriend. He also said he wanted us to keep having sex. Which we did - against my wants -- but because i was so scared of his accusations of assault.

It has been TWENTY years and this story still brings me to tears. What a terrible, terrible person. I'm sorry OP, i don't have any advice other than to get out.

I am so sorry PP! That sounds like an awful experience.

This is really terrible.

Of course it's important to recognize that women can abuse men but what seems to be lost in that recognition is that underlying all abuse is the element of fear, and women often have a much harder time making men feel the same FEAR that a man can very easily make a woman feel. A large man is just far more threatening and intimidating than a small woman. I sometimes think that men don't even know what it means to be a woman and to feel that fear that a man - most men, really - could overpower them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this EXACT thing happened to me in college. I was in a crappy abusive relationship. It was not hitting or violent, but very emotionally abusive. Refused to hang out with my friends or family. Told me i was stupid (i wasn't - i was at a top school). Broke up with me constantly, and then came back. Told me my friends were losers. But that he was so in love with me. Pretty standard emotional abuse.

Several times during our breakups, he had brief relationships with other women. One was another woman in our small group of friends. He told me i needed to get over it, and the problem was ME. That they were now together.

Soon thereafter, A friend/acquitence of mine invited us both to a small party . He would not have been invited but for me, but he really wanted to go. He announces he is bringing this new girlfriend (our mutual friend) even though it is MY friend.

In a heated argument about how absurb it was he wanted to bring her (we were always arguing/crying/talking about heated things - never physical or frightening) and i was a wreck and crying, i effectively collapsed into his arms with my fists on his chest. yes, i was frustrated - it wasn't a love tap. But he was 6 feet and i was 5'4 and i did not intend to any way hurt or bring pain. You can all imagine exactly what that looked like. It was a frustrated arms collapsing into his chest.

The next day he announced i had "assaulted" him and he was so traumatized by it. He wanted to report me to the police. He was considering therapy. He acknowledged that it didn't remotely hurt him, but that because i was smaller, the mere act itself was me trying to shift the power balance -- or some other absurd argument. He however said he would not report me if i simply agreed to continue to be friends with him and get over the other friend being his girlfriend. He also said he wanted us to keep having sex. Which we did - against my wants -- but because i was so scared of his accusations of assault.

It has been TWENTY years and this story still brings me to tears. What a terrible, terrible person. I'm sorry OP, i don't have any advice other than to get out.

I am so sorry PP! That sounds like an awful experience.

Yeah, it was bad. And so difficult because i couldn't deal with it because he effectively had me trapped. I was the one being accused of "assault" by him. And i really did "hit" him. And he wasn't letting me go. It was horrible for about 3-4 months. Then he left for a semester abroad -- and was still blackmailing me into having sex up until he left. Then he left, and it was like a cloud disappeared from above me. It turns out that, absent him, i was a healthy, happy functioning person. I had a wonderful semester of dating, friends, etc etc, and then i met my husband 6 months later. Our marriage has been, since day 1, the most functional, communicative, happy, healthy marriage. He's the best. Our marriage is the best - 17 years later! Meanwhile, my ex married that horrible mutual friend of ours who participate in the whole thing (whom he cheated on for the first 3-4 months of their relationship). I take comfort all these years later in knowing that he's still in a dysfunctional relationship (one that was built on lies and cheating can't ever really be functional) and i immediately entered a functional relationship. That tells me that despite how much he tried to tell me that *I* was the messed up abuser, he is the screwed up one.

[Anonymous]

Remember, abusers can also excuse their behavior. He hit her because she was in his space and he was just trying to breathe. He shoved her down the stairs because he was trying to leave the house and she wouldn't get out of his way. He hit her because she was taunting him and wouldn't stop even though he'd begged her and he was having an emotional breakdown. And on and on.

I'm not saying you're abusive, but I am also saying that being able to come up with an excuse for why you pushed him or hit him isn't sufficient evidence that you aren't. And we tend to take the person who was harmed at their word. He says "it was a love tap, we were wrestling in fun," she says "it left a mark, I couldn't get enough air to scream for help."

It sounds like your DH has other, bigger issues right now, and if you're going to stay together those need to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

OP, to me, this does not sound like typical depression behavior. It sounds like another mental illness or substance abuse. Also, has he had headahces or other physical symptoms?

a friend's husband became violent, angry, a real raging asshole--ultimately he was dxed with a brain tumor that had likely prompted the behavioral changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this EXACT thing happened to me in college. I was in a crappy abusive relationship. It was not hitting or violent, but very emotionally abusive. Refused to hang out with my friends or family. Told me i was stupid (i wasn't - i was at a top school). Broke up with me constantly, and then came back. Told me my friends were losers. But that he was so in love with me. Pretty standard emotional abuse.

Several times during our breakups, he had brief relationships with other women. One was another woman in our small group of friends. He told me i needed to get over it, and the problem was ME. That they were now together.

Soon thereafter, A friend/acquitence of mine invited us both to a small party . He would not have been invited but for me, but he really wanted to go. He announces he is bringing this new girlfriend (our mutual friend) even though it is MY friend.

In a heated argument about how absurb it was he wanted to bring her (we were always arguing/crying/talking about heated things - never physical or frightening) and i was a wreck and crying, i effectively collapsed into his arms with my fists on his chest. yes, i was frustrated - it wasn't a love tap. But he was 6 feet and i was 5'4 and i did not intend to any way hurt or bring pain. You can all imagine exactly what that looked like. It was a frustrated arms collapsing into his chest.

The next day he announced i had "assaulted" him and he was so traumatized by it. He wanted to report me to the police. He was considering therapy. He acknowledged that it didn't remotely hurt him, but that because i was smaller, the mere act itself was me trying to shift the power balance -- or some other absurd argument. He however said he would not report me if i simply agreed to continue to be friends with him and get over the other friend being his girlfriend. He also said he wanted us to keep having sex. Which we did - against my wants -- but because i was so scared of his accusations of assault.

It has been TWENTY years and this story still brings me to tears. What a terrible, terrible person. I'm sorry OP, i don't have any advice other than to get out.

I am so sorry PP! That sounds like an awful experience.

Yeah, it was bad. And so difficult because i couldn't deal with it because he effectively had me trapped. I was the one being accused of "assault" by him. And i really did "hit" him. And he wasn't letting me go. It was horrible for about 3-4 months. Then he left for a semester abroad -- and was still blackmailing me into having sex up until he left. Then he left, and it was like a cloud disappeared from above me. It turns out that, absent him, i was a healthy, happy functioning person. I had a wonderful semester of dating, friends, etc etc, and then i met my husband 6 months later. Our marriage has been, since day 1, the most functional, communicative, happy, healthy marriage. He's the best. Our marriage is the best - 17 years later! Meanwhile, my ex married that horrible mutual friend of ours who participate in the whole thing (whom he cheated on for the first 3-4 months of their relationship). I take comfort all these years later in knowing that he's still in a dysfunctional relationship (one that was built on lies and cheating can't ever really be functional) and i immediately entered a functional relationship. That tells me that despite how much he tried to tell me that *I* was the messed up abuser, he is the screwed up one.

Do you read what you wrote? You are abusive.

[Anonymous]

Second kid and drugs and alcohol. Give it a year then decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this EXACT thing happened to me in college. I was in a crappy abusive relationship. It was not hitting or violent, but very emotionally abusive. Refused to hang out with my friends or family. Told me i was stupid (i wasn't - i was at a top school). Broke up with me constantly, and then came back. Told me my friends were losers. But that he was so in love with me. Pretty standard emotional abuse.

Several times during our breakups, he had brief relationships with other women. One was another woman in our small group of friends. He told me i needed to get over it, and the problem was ME. That they were now together.

Soon thereafter, A friend/acquitence of mine invited us both to a small party . He would not have been invited but for me, but he really wanted to go. He announces he is bringing this new girlfriend (our mutual friend) even though it is MY friend.

In a heated argument about how absurb it was he wanted to bring her (we were always arguing/crying/talking about heated things - never physical or frightening) and i was a wreck and crying, i effectively collapsed into his arms with my fists on his chest. yes, i was frustrated - it wasn't a love tap. But he was 6 feet and i was 5'4 and i did not intend to any way hurt or bring pain. You can all imagine exactly what that looked like. It was a frustrated arms collapsing into his chest.

The next day he announced i had "assaulted" him and he was so traumatized by it. He wanted to report me to the police. He was considering therapy. He acknowledged that it didn't remotely hurt him, but that because i was smaller, the mere act itself was me trying to shift the power balance -- or some other absurd argument. He however said he would not report me if i simply agreed to continue to be friends with him and get over the other friend being his girlfriend. He also said he wanted us to keep having sex. Which we did - against my wants -- but because i was so scared of his accusations of assault.

It has been TWENTY years and this story still brings me to tears. What a terrible, terrible person. I'm sorry OP, i don't have any advice other than to get out.

I am so sorry PP! That sounds like an awful experience.

Yeah, it was bad. And so difficult because i couldn't deal with it because he effectively had me trapped. I was the one being accused of "assault" by him. And i really did "hit" him. And he wasn't letting me go. It was horrible for about 3-4 months. Then he left for a semester abroad -- and was still blackmailing me into having sex up until he left. Then he left, and it was like a cloud disappeared from above me. It turns out that, absent him, i was a healthy, happy functioning person. I had a wonderful semester of dating, friends, etc etc, and then i met my husband 6 months later. Our marriage has been, since day 1, the most functional, communicative, happy, healthy marriage. He's the best. Our marriage is the best - 17 years later! Meanwhile, my ex married that horrible mutual friend of ours who participate in the whole thing (whom he cheated on for the first 3-4 months of their relationship). I take comfort all these years later in knowing that he's still in a dysfunctional relationship (one that was built on lies and cheating can't ever really be functional) and i immediately entered a functional relationship. That tells me that despite how much he tried to tell me that *I* was the messed up abuser, he is the screwed up one.

Do you read what you wrote? You are abusive.

I'm the OP and I'm confused by this claim that PP is abusive, especially since her story somewhat resembles mine (I mean, the crying into arms and hitting chest).

I'm not saying media portrayals make things right, but it's such a common thing to see in old time movies - a tiny petite woman (like me) crying in the arms of her big strong hubby (DH) and making pounding movements on the chest. And he wraps his arms around her and contains her. This is not hitting to me. This is not in any way comparable to a large man SMASHING a lamp next to a small woman, and watching that woman run for cover, and not stopping but proceeding to break the next object in his way. How is what the woman did in that case abuse?

Also, I DID push my DH once when I was postpartum and sleep exhausted. He didn't budge. I regret it, I apologized. It sucked. But abuse is a pattern of behavior.

I'm trying to remember other things I've done (since, hey, this is an anonymous forum) to see how terrible they were. I can only remember these things because he's brought them up to me in the last year. He once asked me how I felt (when I was angry) and I said very calmly, "I feel like punching you!" Now he brings that up as if I'm violent. But was my saying that violent? When I literally have never thrown a punch in my life? And I said it calmly? And I said "I feel like"? Are these things really comparable to actually breaking things, hitting walls, asking if I want to fight him, etc?

Anyway, the worst part is I actually cringe when I write that HE is abusive because I mostly don't think he is abusive. I think he's just depressed and sick and has anger issues. Abuse is such a strong word. It's hard that he used it so readily on me when I hesitate to use it on him.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry you are having to go through this in your marriage. As the others have said, please make sure you know there are resources available in your area. There is never a reason to have to live with abuse in any form. Please take care of yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this EXACT thing happened to me in college. I was in a crappy abusive relationship. It was not hitting or violent, but very emotionally abusive. Refused to hang out with my friends or family. Told me i was stupid (i wasn't - i was at a top school). Broke up with me constantly, and then came back. Told me my friends were losers. But that he was so in love with me. Pretty standard emotional abuse.

Several times during our breakups, he had brief relationships with other women. One was another woman in our small group of friends. He told me i needed to get over it, and the problem was ME. That they were now together.

Soon thereafter, A friend/acquitence of mine invited us both to a small party . He would not have been invited but for me, but he really wanted to go. He announces he is bringing this new girlfriend (our mutual friend) even though it is MY friend.

In a heated argument about how absurb it was he wanted to bring her (we were always arguing/crying/talking about heated things - never physical or frightening) and i was a wreck and crying, i effectively collapsed into his arms with my fists on his chest. yes, i was frustrated - it wasn't a love tap. But he was 6 feet and i was 5'4 and i did not intend to any way hurt or bring pain. You can all imagine exactly what that looked like. It was a frustrated arms collapsing into his chest.

The next day he announced i had "assaulted" him and he was so traumatized by it. He wanted to report me to the police. He was considering therapy. He acknowledged that it didn't remotely hurt him, but that because i was smaller, the mere act itself was me trying to shift the power balance -- or some other absurd argument. He however said he would not report me if i simply agreed to continue to be friends with him and get over the other friend being his girlfriend. He also said he wanted us to keep having sex. Which we did - against my wants -- but because i was so scared of his accusations of assault.

It has been TWENTY years and this story still brings me to tears. What a terrible, terrible person. I'm sorry OP, i don't have any advice other than to get out.

I am so sorry PP! That sounds like an awful experience.

Yeah, it was bad. And so difficult because i couldn't deal with it because he effectively had me trapped. I was the one being accused of "assault" by him. And i really did "hit" him. And he wasn't letting me go. It was horrible for about 3-4 months. Then he left for a semester abroad -- and was still blackmailing me into having sex up until he left. Then he left, and it was like a cloud disappeared from above me. It turns out that, absent him, i was a healthy, happy functioning person. I had a wonderful semester of dating, friends, etc etc, and then i met my husband 6 months later. Our marriage has been, since day 1, the most functional, communicative, happy, healthy marriage. He's the best. Our marriage is the best - 17 years later! Meanwhile, my ex married that horrible mutual friend of ours who participate in the whole thing (whom he cheated on for the first 3-4 months of their relationship). I take comfort all these years later in knowing that he's still in a dysfunctional relationship (one that was built on lies and cheating can't ever really be functional) and i immediately entered a functional relationship. That tells me that despite how much he tried to tell me that *I* was the messed up abuser, he is the screwed up one.

Do you read what you wrote? You are abusive.

I'm the OP and I'm confused by this claim that PP is abusive, especially since her story somewhat resembles mine (I mean, the crying into arms and hitting chest).

I'm not saying media portrayals make things right, but it's such a common thing to see in old time movies - a tiny petite woman (like me) crying in the arms of her big strong hubby (DH) and making pounding movements on the chest. And he wraps his arms around her and contains her. This is not hitting to me. This is not in any way comparable to a large man SMASHING a lamp next to a small woman, and watching that woman run for cover, and not stopping but proceeding to break the next object in his way. How is what the woman did in that case abuse?

Also, I DID push my DH once when I was postpartum and sleep exhausted. He didn't budge. I regret it, I apologized. It sucked. But abuse is a pattern of behavior.

I'm trying to remember other things I've done (since, hey, this is an anonymous forum) to see how terrible they were. I can only remember these things because he's brought them up to me in the last year. He once asked me how I felt (when I was angry) and I said very calmly, "I feel like punching you!" Now he brings that up as if I'm violent. But was my saying that violent? When I literally have never thrown a punch in my life? And I said it calmly? And I said "I feel like"? Are these things really comparable to actually breaking things, hitting walls, asking if I want to fight him, etc?

Anyway, the worst part is I actually cringe when I write that HE is abusive because I mostly don't think he is abusive. I think he's just depressed and sick and has anger issues. Abuse is such a strong word. It's hard that he used it so readily on me when I hesitate to use it on him.

You are just as abusive as you claim he is. Try therapy.