Could 13 yo DD just be discovering she is trans?
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Anonymous
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My honest opinion is: 1. It is normal to feel fluid at that age and beyond. 2. It's damaging to a child exploring his identity to use labels too early and shut himself into a little niche. 3. There is only a minuscule number of children who are genuinely sure within themselves that they are definitely *one* thing, whatever it is. The rest is a reaction to societal and parental pressure. So I would tell my child that it's way too early to make decisions and that she can go on exploring as long as no doors close for her. |
Anonymous
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Reply from a parent of a trans child.
1. Agree many kids behave as if they have fluid sexual preferences but far fewer have fluid gender identity. Maybe at 13, but not long thereafter. 2. Agree there is enormous pressure on kids to label themselves, and they will do this with or without parental engagement so support and engagement are important. Kids who aren't sure will announce new labels after a few months, and again and again until they figure it out. But again, I have seen this more with sexual orientation than identity. 3. Experts tell me than when a kid comes out as trans during puberty or early teen years, they rarely "change their minds." More common to see fluidity in younger kids. 4. Can't prove this next statement, but I think we will soon be able to show that many women previously perceived as masculine lesbians, will identify as trans in the future. I am aware of a couple of adult women who have recently come out as trans after living their lives as adult gay women. 5. I completely agree, however, that parent's should take a cautious approach and avoid permanent interventions as long as possible. But at some point if a kid is consistently adamant he or she is trans, taking no action is no longer the do no harm approach. My child knows too many trans kids who have been hospitalized for depression, attempted suicide, had to withdraw from school, etc. imagine knowing to your core that you are one gender in your brain but on a different body. Think of your own high school experiences -- now imagine you were the exact same person but went through high school in the body of the other gender. Do you think the boy or girl you dated would have dated you? How would you feel wearing clothes of the other gender every day? Walking into the bathroom for the other gender? It is like "oh cool, I am a guy sneaking a look at girls in the bathroom." No, it's I am a guy and my masculinity is eviscersted because I must use the girls bathroom. Generalities are fine, but there are real trans kids and often moms and dads are slow to recognize tjat feature of their own kids. These kids have a right to as near normal high school and college experience as anyone else. We just can't arbitrarily say x age is too young. Honestly, it is very scary for a parent. In some ways, it is like giving your child experimental medicines that may vastly improve his/her life but we don't yet know all the side effects. No one ever said parenting was easy, but this is one of the hardest situations to sort out. But for any parents out there, remember being trans is not like being diagnosed with a grave illness. If a kid is really trans and gets support and intervention, he/she can be much happier and healthy. |
Anonymous
I live in the real world. I'm an old feminist, older than you. In your bubble of privilege, you perceive women as being better off. You are naive. |
Anonymous
A 13 year old having sex is more frightening than her trying to determine her sexual identity |
Anonymous
| Sounds like another phase. Don't be surprised if another phase brings something different. Don't be resentful towards child. Let it ride. |
Anonymous
| Ask her is she really wants to have a penis. |
Anonymous
Your post is scientifically inaccurate. It is unknown how puberty blockers affect children- this is acknowledged by gender doctors as well. http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/07/22/424996915/health-effects-of-transitioning-in-teen-years-remain-unknown Other people who took puberty blockers as children (not for gender issues) suspect it has led to a variety of issues for them, from osteoporosis to degenerative disc disease to suicidal urges. https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/ Furthermore, if the puberty blockers are followed by cross-sex hormones, sterility is the result, and it is not reversible- so if the person later decides that they aren't transgender, there is indeed harm and foul. And even if they do continue identifying as transgender, they may take issue with having been made sterile before they were at a developmentally appropriate age to make such a decision. https://www.washingtonpost.com/drug-treatments-for-transgender-kids-pose-difficult-choices-for-parents-doctors/2012/05/19/gIQAxgakbU_story.html |
Anonymous
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I have read 17:31 and all the cites. I concede that my "no harm, no foul" might be a bit glib as some of the science re puberty blockers in some instances is unclear. BUT, I don't think your conclusions - or perhaps your implications -- are supported by the articles you cite. Even the first article raises the problem of the real pscyho-emotional problems arising from experiencing puberty of the gender with which one does not believe he/she/ze belongs. The way I read it, even if some things are uncertain about blockers the benefits are so certain - so much so the article suggests some doctors think it is unethical to withhold puberty blockers. And your suggestion in your third paragraph is off base in a misleading way. It is the cross-hormones that cause the sterility -- not puberty blockers as far as I have heard.
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Anonymous
| 00:54 again. But I should add that I agree with 17:31 that the sterility issue has been far too overlooked in most popular literature. I understand recently, however, it has begun to find its way into medical protocols to raise the sterility issue before cross-hormone treatments, and I applaud that. |
Anonymous
I just reread my initial post, and I believe it's clear I'm saying that it is the puberty blockers followed by the cross-sex hormones that cause sterility. Neither does on its own, and I don't believe I implied otherwise in my previous post. Cross-sex hormones can damage fertility, but it isn't a sure-fire path to sterility like the combination is. Yes, some doctors believe it's unethical to withhold puberty blockers. There are still others who think it is unethical to lead children down a path that leads to sterility before they're even old enough to go to the bathroom without asking for permission. The largest concern with the puberty blockers is that upwards of 90 percent (I don't have the exact figures on hand now, but I'll happily gather the citations if you'd like them) of children who start on blockers continue on to cross-sex hormones, according to top gender doc Johanna Olson. So although it's said that the blockers are used to buy time to decide, it's pretty clear that the decision is almost exclusively to continue on to hormones, and thus sterility and other lifelong medical concerns. This sounds great on the surface- what a high success rate!- but the issue that is often overlooked is that before puberty blockers became commonly used for this purpose, 60 to 90 percent of children who identified as transgender (the figures range because they come from a host of studies) later desisted and identified as their birth sex. What was the turning point in returning to birth-sex identification? Going through puberty. Most of the children went on to be emotionally-healthy gay or lesbian adults. Now, among the population that receives puberty blockers, the numbers have reversed in a matter of a less than a decade. Presently, puberty blockers are increasingly common. But by avoiding puberty, you are avoiding the stage that previously allowed growing adolescents to figure out who they really felt they were- whether that was gay and cisgender, or, more rarely, straight/cisgender or transgender. This is a huge red flag. My concern is the health and happiness of these children, just like the doctors and their parents. But I'm afraid the mainstream approach is currently going in a direction that is unintentionally doing more harm than help, and as these children come of age within the next decade (you can already see some of it on YouTube vlogs), we will see the irreversible emotional and health effects they're battling. |
Anonymous
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Hi 18:16. I actually think we agree more than we disagree, but that we may be focusing on different age groups /scenarios of kids.
While I have not seen the study you cite about 60-90% of children identifying as transgender later desisting, I don't doubt it if you are talking about very young children. I was told by leading experts that this is common when one looks at very young children - and most of us probably have some life experience with family member of friends to confirm that. But I was also told that when kids seriously come out in the early stages of puberty, it is rare (if ever) that they later go back to their birth identification. It is also quite likely that over time there will be more accurate diagnostic methods and larger numbers of better trained professionals conducting the assessments. I suspect very few of those 60-90 percent of children really exhibited a comprehensive set of indicia of being transgender. Perhaps one day protocols will develop demonstrating that the optimal time to use blockers is with children for whom the very early phases of puberty cause great disphoria accompanied by a demonstrated track record in the later childhood /pre-puberty years of confirming evidence, or some other set of more precise criteria will be developed. Seems to me unlikely that a 12 year old who wants to be on puberty blockers when all of his/her friends are developing breasts or getting more muscular, is not doing so on a whim and is not likely to "change his/her mind." That may be too late for some - especially girls/trans guys -- but even pushing back to 10 or 11 might be reasonable. Obviously, it is a closer /tougher call the more you push back. My focus is on kids where there is a strong evidence supporting the child's coming out as transgender, confirmed with multiple professional evaluations, waiting a reasonable amount of time pre WPATH or other guidelines. Even then, there is the sterility issue/risk. But as a parent when your child already knows more than one trans kid who has taken his own life and is facing the hell of puberty, I can understand why some parents and doctors would say - if the child wants it -- the risk of the blockers is less than other known risks. In truth, one can't be sure a CIS-gendered straight person will eventually have children in this world -- one might preserve fertility for naught anyway. Down the road, perhaps scientists will find a way for prepubescent cells to be removed and then developed thereafter to facilitate puberty. Thanks. |
Anonymous
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Posted too later at night. Please note corrections to above post -- double negative in second para above was confusing and paragraph should read: "Seems to me unlikely that a 12 year old who wants to be on puberty blockers when all of his/her friends are developing breasts or getting more muscular, is doing so on a whim and is going to "change his/her mind."
Last Para should read: "Down the road, perhaps scientists will find a way for prepubescent cells to be removed and then developed thereafter to facilitate preserving fertility." |
Anonymous
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OP, please listen to me.
My daughter did the same thing a few years ago. There were no signs of this until one day she announced she was transgender. I know it is because she was influenced by her trans friends and social media. I can not get into details about all of the horrible stuff that happened and how the gender therapists we trusted pushed transition and hormones. But I can tell you she is now more messed up than ever. Please do not go to a trans group or any kind of gender clinic. They will mess with your mind and ruin your child's life. There are other parents who will tell you the same thing. Please read this: 4thwavenow.com There are many blogs by parents like me who learned this the hard way. Also read this:https://youthtranscriticalprofessionals.org/ The press is not reporting what is really going on. Everyone is afraid of sounding like a bigot. True transgendersm is very rare. When you hear about what is going on with teenagers common sense alone tells you there is another reason. |
Anonymous
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21:22 is wrong. There are many teens (and even adults) who detransition. Gender clinics will lie to you and cite suicide statistics to encourage you to let your kid transition. This is what they did to me.
Brains do not fully develop until the mid 20s. There are a lot of confused and impressionable teens. They need old-fashioned counseling, NOT gender therapy. Something else to consider: http://www.thehomoarchy.com/do-youth-transgender-diagnoses-put-would-be-gay-lesbian-bisexual-adults-at-risk-for-unnecessary-medical-intervention/ |
Anonymous
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Oh boy let's try this again for the benefit of OP and anyone else who comes across this thread.
There are transgender people There are not many of them on a percentage basis of the population. Real, medical gender clinic associated with academic medical centers are not in the business of lying about statistics. Might there be bias on the margins -- sure -- just like in any other field. On the other hand, the recent hype of the past couple of years has promoted arguably more "transtrender" individuals. Real transgender teens rarely if ever detransiton once committed to transitioning. That said, I have no idea whether OP's child is really trans or declaring it because it is a trendy category in which a teen can today fit in and feel briefly as if he/she belongs. OPs description suggests the latter-this seeming out of the blue and inconsistent with any prior conduct regarding gender. Of course, it is also true that some trans kids hide signs very well and that some parents miss them when staring them in the face for years. Again, no one on this board can know OPs situation. But the answer to the question of whether this child may really be trans is yes -- it is possible. That doesn't mean the child is trans. And yes, I am not opposed to puberty blockers in appropriate situations. If a kid is really "figuring it out," that is a logical intervention and does not necessarily lead to cross hormone treatment. If it does more often than not, that may just be because the parents starting such blocker may more certain in the first instance that their child likely is trans. And yes, the sterility is a tough issue later that should be frankly discussed. I agree with an earlier poster this has not been given sufficient attention. Usually the teen wants he/her life to change immediately -- hard to think about fertility. With older teens deeper into puberty there can be discussions about freezing eggs or sperm before cross-hormones start. These are tough issues, and they warrant serious discussion. |