Could 13 yo DD just be discovering she is trans?
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Anonymous
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23:30 - I speak as a parent with first hand experience. My kid was pushed into hormone blockers by a dr who told me they were safe and would buy her some time to figure this out. THIS IS A LIE. They are NOT safe. Do your research before you make this statement. This is NOT my opinion. This is a fact that medical professionals are ignoring.
Don't believe me? Google "Lupron.' You can read about what it does to your body and the lawsuits that no one mentions. Start with this article:https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/ By the way there has been explosive growth in gender clinics around the country. While transgenderism is rare in reality, there has been a surge in treating children medically for something that -- if left alone -- would turn out NOT to be transgender after all. But do these clinics turn away children with gender dysphoria and encourage parents to seek other help for their kids while they wait it out? No. They turn them into lifelong medical patients. Just read the stories on the links listed in 17:27. These clinics are practicing very dangerous medicine and no one is sounding the alarm. |
Anonymous
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I share your concern about unqualified clinics popping up, and I empathize that you and your child had a bad experience. When a child tells you he/she's transgender it can be shocking and it is hard to know where to start. Speaking from first hand experience, it did not take us much effort to determine there were very few skilled, knowledgeable practitioners in this area.
Any time one messes with hormones there are potential side effects -- think about the history of birth control pills. And it is important to only receive treatment from very experienced endocrinologists. Each situation is different, and parents are justified in asking many questions, getting second opinions, and not accepting a recommendation without evidence to back it up in the context of a given child. I've read the news stores you cite, googled Lupron, and read several others as well. Part of my search has also included reading reviews from many people who talked about the side effects -- mostly minor -- putting them in the context of the condition or disease being treated. But again, this is all in a vacuum. No one should undergo any medical treatment unless there is a reason to do so. Lupron was approved decades ago for children with premature puberty, but has also been used to help in reducing testosterone to better treat cancer, to help with endometriosis, and other conditions. If I were in a doctor's office with a 7 year old I would probably react very differently to a Lupron suggestion than if I were with an 11 year old. One key issue is what is "long term" treatment and effects. The original studies repressing premature puberty are from around the 1980s. While they have been criticized, I don't see anything in the specific instances cited in the articles you posted that really make the case that there is a specific, severe problem here. Of course there are hundreds - maybe thousands -- of adverse events. And some serious ones. The same is true for most medications - just watch the drug advertisements during the evening news. Several years ago we declined an option to put our child on Lupron in connection with treating a different medical condition that may have had a better result if puberty were suppressed. The doctor explained to us this would be an off label use, and that the original safety studies were conduct on children who were different in some significant ways from ours. Yet, he believed they were close enough to our situation that there should be no significant side effects, and we could stop if there were. It was a close call, but t the time the benefits of treatment did not seem sufficiently great to warrant any side-effect risks at all. At the time, we also did not know our child was transgender. In retrospect, if we had known then what we know now we likely would have made a different choice. I have personally been to a suicide funeral for an acquaintance of our child, and my DC personally knows several other transgender kids who have taken their lives or attempted to do so. These are not made up stories -- they are facts. I have met a number of parents whose trans children have been hospitalized with depression. I have seen a biological component seem to run through extended families. It is against this backdrop that any risk/benefit analysis should take place in deciding upon medications. The dangers to a trans kid can be just as real as the dangers to a cancer patient put on Lupron as part of a broader treatment regime. It all depends on the specifics. I am not pushing blockers on anyone -- but I sure think they have a place in the doctor/parent toolkit. |
Anonymous
Thank you for posting. I sympathize with what you and your child have gone through. Your side is one that is not easily heard, and is too often stifled or shouted down. It's sad, because this is something that has a lifelong effect on these vulnerable children. People who haven't experienced this (either firsthand or as the parent of a questioning child) don't understand- yes, even qualified medical professionals/clinics are caught up in the hype. Proper thought and care isn't being given before beginning children on these medications- people who are hesitant to start are scared with distorted statistics of suicide rates. Yes, there are people with sex dysphoria for whom transitioning is the best option. However, the number of people to whom this applies is very, very small. Among youth, it is even smaller. The true, underlying causes beneath the transgender identification of these youths is being neglected when transition is looked to as the cure. |
Anonymous
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7:44 --There are some well established international guidelines for assessing/treating transgender people published by WPATH. Anyone in the field should be familiar with them. When followed, I expect most of the hype disappears. If the doctor you consulted didn't follow them or explain why he didn't, shame on him. These are widely recognized standards of care.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/amo_hub_content/Association140/files/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH%20(2)(1).pdf WPATH has long required a person to live as a member of the sex with which they identify for a year before beginning any medical treatments. |
Anonymous
Not PP to whom you're responding, but you seem to be focused on refuting anything with which you disagree, even when it's coming from someone with intimate experience with the subject. It's pretty certain 7:44 is familiar with WPATH. Also, what you've said in bold is flat-out untrue, and its falseness is confirmed by the very guide to which you linked. WPATH says that what they deem "irreversible interventions" (such as surgery) should not be carried out without one year of living in desired gender role. But for other medical interventions, no minimum time requirement is given. In fact, in that very document, they stress their belief in the importance of not withholding medical interventions from adolescents. |
Anonymous
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7:44 here. Of course, my gender doc follows WPATH. Most all do. That is what is so dangerous. At the last USPATH meeting, they shut down any conversation that dared to question their approach. They are controlled by transgender activists that have very strong incentives in applying their gender narrative to young children. This is a money making field. This is a politically driven field. My family and I were VICTIMIZED by this and the media is turning a blind eye.
Every time I try to speak out with compassion and reason, I get shut down by these people. The stories and evidence are out there to support everything I am saying. True transgenderism is rare. Don't you think something fishy is going on when someone tells you that they know several kids who are trans? Don't you think it's odd that there are some colleges that say 10% of their student body is transgender? "College officials and students estimate that 10 percent or more of New College students are transgender or non-binary, meaning they don't fit comfortably within traditional gender definitions."http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20160320/transgender-students-find-safe-spaces-at-new-college Seriously, think about if this makes any sense? Most of these kids are not transgender. They are most likely gay, autistic, or have serious body dysmorphia. The trans political movement has confused young people and is scaring their parents into transitioning their kids. I was part of this. I know the lies that are told firsthand. |
Anonymous
| Thank you 20:49 for your support. I appreciate it. |
Anonymous
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20:40/0:37 here. I have no agenda here other than trying to get out as much useful information as possible for OP and anyone else facing this issue.
I too have very personal experience as a parent with these issues. Some pretty rough language is being tossed around here toward me without fairly looking at the totality of my words -- which ironically seems to be exactly what 18:23 is complaining about coming from "these people" toward her -- whoever they are exactly. But I do agree with the spirit of that part of 18:23’s post that today’s social climate has likely distorted reality. And I do empathize with the experience of anyone who has been led astray by an unprofessional professional. But that doesn't mean that I have to reach the same conclusions about all professionals’ uses of certain treatments. Responding briefly to 0:52, the line at the bottom of the page of my post above (0:37) was from a draft, and when I went back and reread the most recent guidelines I revised/edited it. I meant to delete that line before I posted but it was after midnight and I just missed it at the bottom of the page. This is obvious given that the line appears far below the rest of the post and that I provided the link to the WPATH document - -I wanted people to have access to it who read this thread in the future. One need not agree with everything in WPATH to acknowledge that they are an important source of information -- even some insurance companies (no fans of paying for unnecessary medical procedures) cite to them as authoritative. As for puberty suppressants, however, my mistake may be a distinction with less of a difference than might seem at first look. The WPATH guidelines for providing puberty blockers to adolescents state the following "minimum criteria must be met: 1).”The adolescent has demonstrated a long-lasting and intense pattern of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria (whether suppressed or expressed)”; 2) “Gender dysphoria emerged or worsened with the onset of puberty”; 3) “Any co-existing psychological, medical, or social problems that could interfere with treatment . . . have been addressed . . . .”; and 4) basically, informed consent must be given (by adult or parent/guardian for child). I am not a clinician, but taking this back to what was described about OP's child -- at least to me -- certainly does not show a "long-lasting and intense pattern" of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria" when the only evidence provided of the child's trans identity was a period of 10-days. No one on this cite is arguing this girl should start blockers -- only that it is possible she is really trans and it is possible she is not, and if after some good mental health work it looks like she really may be puberty blockers have potential benefits. Of course, like all medical treatments, they must be balanced against any risks. Finally, if you have a trans kid it would not seem “fishy” at all that someone can know more than one trans kid. Some of this comes from attendance at LGBT support groups, some from the internet, and some from just other extracurricular activities - the same way kids meet any other kids who are not transgender. Real trans kids find each other. Instinctively, I agree they likely are still rare –- but not so rare that they are counted on your fingers. There are more than 6 million people in the DC metro area. Forget New College. Assume only one tenth of one percent of them (one in a thousand) are transgender -- that's 6,000 people. Roughly 18 percent of Washington DC's population is under age 18. If that statistic held for the metro area -- assuming one tenth of one percent of people are trans - that's still over 1,000 unique kids. The internet widens this to the entire country - or beyond – and between Youtube, Facebook and many other social media sites, the kids find each other if they want to. I have no idea what the likely general population percentage of trans people is, but common sense suggests that once the “hype” dies down, it will still be more than we thought when the stigma was overwhelming. It is understandable to get angry when we or our children are let down by professionals – very, very angry. But let's not let that anger spill over and lose perspective. For many real trans kids, dysphoria is real, painful, and gets much worse in puberty. There is a real risk that anger focused on a “political movement” can erase the original, important message that there are real trans kids, yes - thousands of them --that need support. The political trendiness will eventually will pass. The consequences of kids thrown out by their parents – yes, that really does happen even if not (hopefully) often by posters on this site -- can last a life time. The kids and young adults beaten outside of clubs or in school need help. The suicides are not just statistics -- inflated or otherwise -- designed to scare parents; they are real. As are the mental health hospitalizations. And yes, unfortunately trendiness can lead to quackery and bad judgment, and well-intentioned mistakes also can happen – and kids (trans or not) can pay the price. My family is just as skeptical as 7:44's of the over popularization/trendiness of being trans in today's culture. But I also feel incredibly fortunate that my child is now much happier post-transitioning after years of anguish. My compassion and reason run both ways, and I do what I can to check my anger because it won't help my child or yours. I wish OP and the other posters who have had difficulties all the best. |
Anonymous
Very true. And many of the schools encourage this confusion by celebrating "coming out" week. Kids that age are confused about many things. OP, if you seriously think your daughter is trans, please read up on the suicide rate for trans kids both before and after surgeries. I have two family friends going through the surgeries. The depression and suicide rate after surgeries is astronomical, somewhere near 50%. If your child just seems to be confused, please get them counseling by someone who is solid in the field. |
Anonymous
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23:19 - I understand that we both have very different perspectives and care deeply for our kids. I don't want to judge anyone else's parenting decisions. Just want to make sure people know that (1) professionals are ostracized when they question kids who think they are trans (2) WPATH does not allow for health dissent. Videotape evidence of their conference is available. (3) The explosion among youth defies logic (4) Most kids have underlying issues that cause the gender confusion, not the other way around (5) Detransition stories are becoming increasingly common. There are many instances of kids where the experts and parents were convinced they were trans, only to realize after lots of time (and body altering hormones) that this was not correct. Many of these kids have suppressed trauma, are gay, susceptible to social contagion, etc. My main point is that most therapists go along with the idea that if a kid thinks it's true, we must accept this and go along with whatever they want, even if it includes irreversible medical changes.
I will not begin to argue whether there are kids for whom this is medically or psychologically necessary. All I can say is that they are kids whose brains do not fully develop until they are in their mid-20s. I will leave it at that. |
Anonymous
This is a good point that's overlooked. There aren't actually many good (scientifically sound) statistics on transgender suicides, and those that exist indicate higher rates of suicide attempts post transition. Additionally, for many of the suicide attempts among trans-identified youth are on the part of those with full parental and community support. The mainstream idea is to focus on solving the gender issue through transition, but to the exclusion/ostracizing of any other approach, as 09:00 pointed out. Gender dysphoria is highly comorbid with mental illness- unfortunately treatment for those illnesses often gets overlooked because it's thought that gender issues are the cause, rather than perhaps a symptom. Lack of social acceptance cannot fully account for the high rates of post-transition dissatisfaction. |
Anonymous
| Oh my this thread has me terrified. I popped on because I recently started wondering about my son. He is 14 and defines himself as gay. He has been shaving his body hair since the day it developed. He loves make up and wears it a lot - he's fine with it around his friends but does t wear it to school. Sequins, high heels and tight clothes call his name and he will wear these to school. As far as I know, he's had no relationships. He reminds me of the 1980s gay boy with his crowd of fag hags - who are really nice kids and love to help him with his make up. recently I have been wondering if he might come out as trans. I am fine with it but I feel very inequiped to deal with this. Parenting is always full of surprises. Appreciate everyone's thoughts and information even if it means I probably won't sleep tonight. |
Anonymous
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23:28 - Good for you for allowing him to express himself in gender nonconforming ways. Just watch out that he does not equate this to being a woman. There is a big difference and that is why the transgender identification in teens is so troubling. Most are not actually transgender.
My advice: stay away from LGBTQ groups because they mix up gay and transgender together and they are very different. Read this:https://4thwavenow.com/2017/02/01/mission-creep-respected-lgb-family-support-org-goes-full-on-trans/ Also, if he does come out and say he's trans, stay away from gender therapists or gender clinics. They will only affirm whatever he ways. It is super important that he explore who he is without the trans label. Because once they give you the label, they will push you into changing your name and pronouns, and from there, hormones. If you have questions or concerns, ask the folks at 4thwavenow.com. They are a bunch of (generally) liberal minded parents who have experienced this first-hand and found that most trans identifying kids have other issues - often just gay - but they are caught up in a society where transgender is everywhere. Be cautious and be careful. |
Anonymous
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My daughter told mre last week she is a boy. This is a girl who is 13 but developed late and still has barely any breasts. She was always interested in girls toys, clothes, etc and is so different than her two brothers. In my gut I think she is a girl who is having social pressures to be something unique . She's always liked boys and had crushes on them since she was 5 and most of her friends (girls) now say they are bi or gay. This is a group
Of girls who have been friends since elementary school and now they are all labeling themselves . I can't say if it's true or a trendy thing to do. This group of girls and one or two gay boys ( who don't fit in socially but were never effeminate) are nerds and not high on the popularity scale From What I've been told . I'm thinking that my daughter is being influenced by this group . She's tiny (less than 5 feet and like 90 lbs) and has absolutely no male traits. I'm concerned by some of the posts that claim most kids who identify as trans at 13 are really trans. It's just hard for me to believe these kids Know how they feel when they've never touched anyone of the same or opposite sex (in this group at least I'm fairly certain) and have so many hormones constantly changing right now. My daughter wants to wear a binder for her chest. She doesn't even have anything to bind. I'm at a loss. I spoke to a gender specialist in the area who was recommended by her doctor but now I'm afraid to take her after reading some of the posts here. I also think they may have an agenda . Does anyone of a therapist in northern Virginia who is not a "gender" specialist but who is well educated on this issue? I am keeping my thoughts to myself with her and trying to support her but don't want to do the wrong thing and hurt her. Her two older brothers (17 and 19) laughed and said it's trendy and she's a girl. My husband is concerned a little but thinks she's being overly influenced by her friends and by constantly conversing with them on her phone and being on the internet. It's almost like this is a hobby for her. Advice please!! I can't sleep. |
Anonymous
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Here's my advice from someone whose 13 year old came out to me a few years ago - very similar situation to yours. I already posted on this board with links to 4thwavenow.com
It is SO important that you do not see a gender therapist. This was one of the worst mistakes I made. I tried two and they were both awful. They only made my daughter more convinced she was a boy. And scared me with suicide statistics - if I didn't go along with the name change, etc. my daughter would kill herself. I recommend that you contact Sasha Ayad. She is out of town, but specializes in this. She might know someone local who can help you. She offers free initial phone consults.https://inspiredteentherapy.com/gender-sexuality/ You are so smart to question this. I did at first. And then I stupidly went to a gender therapist who made me doubt myself. You want to make sure you get this under control before it gets worse. Good luck. |