s/o please stop derailing/diagnosis lawyering/etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster has a toddler. It is a delay. When kids become school aged it is a disorder.

Right, but doing nothing but speech from when kids are toddlers continuing well into elementary school without evaluating why they still need speech is crappy advice and shows a real lack of understanding of speech development.

We only did speech. We tried ABA and it was a waste of time.

Yes, and you've never accepted your autism diagnosis either I bet.

We no longer have one. My kid was "cured."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is severely disabled and has no diagnosis. She is 10 years old. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Many families wait years or never get a diagnosis.

People are free to use whatever terms describe their situation -- especially since so many kids fall through the cracks. Stop expecting order where there isn't any. You sound like you have problems yourself.

Maybe you missed the posts, but the poster was a mom with older children who never had them evaluated. So you don't have a diagnosis is you never look either.

How do you know they've never been evaluated? If they are in speech therapy, in order at least for our insurance to pay, they have to be regularly evaluated. Not all kids need a neuropsych. We've never had one. Big deal. It isn't going to tell us anything more than the many other evaluations we have had.

That's what the mother said.

I am that mother! You misunderstood me. My older son has been evaluated by his pediatricians (several), ENT's, a half dozen SLP's, had a full scale WISC administered by a psychologist, and seen a neuroscientist who is an expert in apraxia. Everyone concluded that he seems to have low-ish time and multiple major articulation errors. All that and nobody knows why. So we focus on the what and thank God he is getting better with therapy and time. Same story to a lesser degree with ds2.

You realize that evaluations are a form of intervention? Also, you need a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychological evaluation by a psychologist--not just the WISC. Every professional you mentioned has extremely limited scope. My guess is that you're trying to avoid a diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being ignorant is not a diagnosis.

There is a difference between delays and disorders. When your kid is past preschool age and still needs speech therapy--that's not a late bloomer. That is technically a disorder according to ASHA:

http://blog.asha.org/2015/04/14/language-delay-versus-a-disorder/
http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/LateBlooming.htm


Yes, some people smoke 5 packs a day and never develop lung cancer. Some people never vaccinate their kids and they don't get sick. It doesn't mean that these are based on any scientific evidence. However, the information by ASHA is.

You are exactly the kind of poster OP is talking about. I'm sure you have no idea that your style makes it very easy to dismiss you. I don't mean that in a snarky way but you're writing style is so unmeasured that it repulses rather than leads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is severely disabled and has no diagnosis. She is 10 years old. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Many families wait years or never get a diagnosis.

People are free to use whatever terms describe their situation -- especially since so many kids fall through the cracks. Stop expecting order where there isn't any. You sound like you have problems yourself.

Maybe you missed the posts, but the poster was a mom with older children who never had them evaluated. So you don't have a diagnosis is you never look either.

How do you know they've never been evaluated? If they are in speech therapy, in order at least for our insurance to pay, they have to be regularly evaluated. Not all kids need a neuropsych. We've never had one. Big deal. It isn't going to tell us anything more than the many other evaluations we have had.

That's what the mother said.

I am that mother! You misunderstood me. My older son has been evaluated by his pediatricians (several), ENT's, a half dozen SLP's, had a full scale WISC administered by a psychologist, and seen a neuroscientist who is an expert in apraxia. Everyone concluded that he seems to have low-ish time and multiple major articulation errors. All that and nobody knows why. So we focus on the what and thank God he is getting better with therapy and time. Same story to a lesser degree with ds2.

You realize that evaluations are a form of intervention? Also, you need a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychological evaluation by a psychologist--not just the WISC. Every professional you mentioned has extremely limited scope. My guess is that you're trying to avoid a diagnosis.

...why? If the therapy is working they aren't going to change it. The children are making progress in their identified needs and have had more than enough testing. I've provided therapy and evaluations for hundreds of children beyond age 5 with speech and language needs who have not received, nor needed, a full neuropsych because they had no needs in other areas. Because an SLP is the expert in the field of speech and language disorders, and a clinical psychologist is not licensed or qualified to assess language disorders and delays. (Which, incidentally, is the position of ASHA, since you keep linking those two generic articles from there.) If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, don't assume it's a cat in a duck suit.

I am, however, starting to think that you might need a full neuropsych to determine the underlying cause of your almost obsessive interest in having all children past age 5 evaluated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is severely disabled and has no diagnosis. She is 10 years old. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Many families wait years or never get a diagnosis.

People are free to use whatever terms describe their situation -- especially since so many kids fall through the cracks. Stop expecting order where there isn't any. You sound like you have problems yourself.

Maybe you missed the posts, but the poster was a mom with older children who never had them evaluated. So you don't have a diagnosis is you never look either.

How do you know they've never been evaluated? If they are in speech therapy, in order at least for our insurance to pay, they have to be regularly evaluated. Not all kids need a neuropsych. We've never had one. Big deal. It isn't going to tell us anything more than the many other evaluations we have had.

That's what the mother said.

I am that mother! You misunderstood me. My older son has been evaluated by his pediatricians (several), ENT's, a half dozen SLP's, had a full scale WISC administered by a psychologist, and seen a neuroscientist who is an expert in apraxia. Everyone concluded that he seems to have low-ish time and multiple major articulation errors. All that and nobody knows why. So we focus on the what and thank God he is getting better with therapy and time. Same story to a lesser degree with ds2.

You realize that evaluations are a form of intervention? Also, you need a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychological evaluation by a psychologist--not just the WISC. Every professional you mentioned has extremely limited scope. My guess is that you're trying to avoid a diagnosis.

...why? If the therapy is working they aren't going to change it. The children are making progress in their identified needs and have had more than enough testing. I've provided therapy and evaluations for hundreds of children beyond age 5 with speech and language needs who have not received, nor needed, a full neuropsych because they had no needs in other areas. Because an SLP is the expert in the field of speech and language disorders, and a clinical psychologist is not licensed or qualified to assess language disorders and delays. (Which, incidentally, is the position of ASHA, since you keep linking those two generic articles from there.) If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, don't assume it's a cat in a duck suit.

I am, however, starting to think that you might need a full neuropsych to determine the underlying cause of your almost obsessive interest in having all children past age 5 evaluated.

You don't want to keep testing kids over and over again. That's far worse and unnecessary. You can have a diagnosis without a neuropsych and a diagnosis is just a label, nothing more. It doesn't change things except to please people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is severely disabled and has no diagnosis. She is 10 years old. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Many families wait years or never get a diagnosis.

People are free to use whatever terms describe their situation -- especially since so many kids fall through the cracks. Stop expecting order where there isn't any. You sound like you have problems yourself.

Maybe you missed the posts, but the poster was a mom with older children who never had them evaluated. So you don't have a diagnosis is you never look either.

How do you know they've never been evaluated? If they are in speech therapy, in order at least for our insurance to pay, they have to be regularly evaluated. Not all kids need a neuropsych. We've never had one. Big deal. It isn't going to tell us anything more than the many other evaluations we have had.

That's what the mother said.

I am that mother! You misunderstood me. My older son has been evaluated by his pediatricians (several), ENT's, a half dozen SLP's, had a full scale WISC administered by a psychologist, and seen a neuroscientist who is an expert in apraxia. Everyone concluded that he seems to have low-ish time and multiple major articulation errors. All that and nobody knows why. So we focus on the what and thank God he is getting better with therapy and time. Same story to a lesser degree with ds2.

You realize that evaluations are a form of intervention? Also, you need a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychological evaluation by a psychologist--not just the WISC. Every professional you mentioned has extremely limited scope. My guess is that you're trying to avoid a diagnosis.

Why do you NEED a an evaluation form a psychologist? If your child has language issues, a psychologist is not trained in language issues so that would make no sense.

[Anonymous]

OP, your post is so ironic. You want people to stop "diagnosis lawyering" but all you have accomplished with this post is to harass people about diagnosis. Really, you are the worst offender. Stop it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your post is so ironic. You want people to stop "diagnosis lawyering" but all you have accomplished with this post is to harass people about diagnosis. Really, you are the worst offender. Stop it.

?? I haven't posted on here since the OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being ignorant is not a diagnosis.

There is a difference between delays and disorders. When your kid is past preschool age and still needs speech therapy--that's not a late bloomer. That is technically a disorder according to ASHA:

http://blog.asha.org/2015/04/14/language-delay-versus-a-disorder/
http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/LateBlooming.htm


Yes, some people smoke 5 packs a day and never develop lung cancer. Some people never vaccinate their kids and they don't get sick. It doesn't mean that these are based on any scientific evidence. However, the information by ASHA is.

That article is pretty lame, actually, just saying that the lack of language acquisition can be caused by low cognitive abilities (well documented and that makes sense) or 'autism'. What exactly is the mechanism at work there for the autistic people not acquiring language? Is it also low cognitive levels or something else? And no stupid speculations like 'it's sensory issues' I would like to know the WHY specifically.
I will tell you that the researchers don't know the WHY and not have they spent much time studying nonverbal autistic people. I'll try to look up some studies later, but I e read several - one research team saying that they didn't know where to find the nonverbal people because they aren't 'out and about in the community' - it's maddening.

My guess, OP, is that you're at armchair crank about things you know very little about - you should find another life mission because this one is pretty dumb.

Here's a reasonable article

https://spectrumnews.org/news/study-of-nonverbal-autism-must-go-beyond-words-experts-say/

Here's a little enlightening blurb...

Still, little is known about how to match minimally verbal children with the best therapies to encourage them to develop spoken language. “We have no idea which kids are going to respond to which interventions,” McCleery says. “The more information we can gather on that, the better.”

Also, if your kid is high IQ the odds of them learning to talk are much higher. Perhaps some of these people have high IQ children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is severely disabled and has no diagnosis. She is 10 years old. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Many families wait years or never get a diagnosis.

People are free to use whatever terms describe their situation -- especially since so many kids fall through the cracks. Stop expecting order where there isn't any. You sound like you have problems yourself.

Maybe you missed the posts, but the poster was a mom with older children who never had them evaluated. So you don't have a diagnosis is you never look either.

How do you know they've never been evaluated? If they are in speech therapy, in order at least for our insurance to pay, they have to be regularly evaluated. Not all kids need a neuropsych. We've never had one. Big deal. It isn't going to tell us anything more than the many other evaluations we have had.

That's what the mother said.

I am that mother! You misunderstood me. My older son has been evaluated by his pediatricians (several), ENT's, a half dozen SLP's, had a full scale WISC administered by a psychologist, and seen a neuroscientist who is an expert in apraxia. Everyone concluded that he seems to have low-ish time and multiple major articulation errors. All that and nobody knows why. So we focus on the what and thank God he is getting better with therapy and time. Same story to a lesser degree with ds2.

You realize that evaluations are a form of intervention? Also, you need a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychological evaluation by a psychologist--not just the WISC. Every professional you mentioned has extremely limited scope. My guess is that you're trying to avoid a diagnosis.

Why do you NEED a an evaluation form a psychologist? If your child has language issues, a psychologist is not trained in language issues so that would make no sense.

Maybe because she is one. I can tell you that they have minimal training (a masters degree ) but strong opinions and a high opinion of themselves.
If your child really has a problem I'd head to the phd's and MD's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being ignorant is not a diagnosis.

There is a difference between delays and disorders. When your kid is past preschool age and still needs speech therapy--that's not a late bloomer. That is technically a disorder according to ASHA:

http://blog.asha.org/2015/04/14/language-delay-versus-a-disorder/
http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/LateBlooming.htm


Yes, some people smoke 5 packs a day and never develop lung cancer. Some people never vaccinate their kids and they don't get sick. It doesn't mean that these are based on any scientific evidence. However, the information by ASHA is.

That article is pretty lame, actually, just saying that the lack of language acquisition can be caused by low cognitive abilities (well documented and that makes sense) or 'autism'. What exactly is the mechanism at work there for the autistic people not acquiring language? Is it also low cognitive levels or something else? And no stupid speculations like 'it's sensory issues' I would like to know the WHY specifically.
I will tell you that the researchers don't know the WHY and not have they spent much time studying nonverbal autistic people. I'll try to look up some studies later, but I e read several - one research team saying that they didn't know where to find the nonverbal people because they aren't 'out and about in the community' - it's maddening.

My guess, OP, is that you're at armchair crank about things you know very little about - you should find another life mission because this one is pretty dumb.

Here's a reasonable article

https://spectrumnews.org/news/study-of-nonverbal-autism-must-go-beyond-words-experts-say/

Here's a little enlightening blurb...

Still, little is known about how to match minimally verbal children with the best therapies to encourage them to develop spoken language. “We have no idea which kids are going to respond to which interventions,” McCleery says. “The more information we can gather on that, the better.”

Also, if your kid is high IQ the odds of them learning to talk are much higher. Perhaps some of these people have high IQ children.

I am the OP and not sure why you are directing this to me. I did not post those links.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is severely disabled and has no diagnosis. She is 10 years old. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Many families wait years or never get a diagnosis.

People are free to use whatever terms describe their situation -- especially since so many kids fall through the cracks. Stop expecting order where there isn't any. You sound like you have problems yourself.

Maybe you missed the posts, but the poster was a mom with older children who never had them evaluated. So you don't have a diagnosis is you never look either.

How do you know they've never been evaluated? If they are in speech therapy, in order at least for our insurance to pay, they have to be regularly evaluated. Not all kids need a neuropsych. We've never had one. Big deal. It isn't going to tell us anything more than the many other evaluations we have had.

That's what the mother said.

I am that mother! You misunderstood me. My older son has been evaluated by his pediatricians (several), ENT's, a half dozen SLP's, had a full scale WISC administered by a psychologist, and seen a neuroscientist who is an expert in apraxia. Everyone concluded that he seems to have low-ish time and multiple major articulation errors. All that and nobody knows why. So we focus on the what and thank God he is getting better with therapy and time. Same story to a lesser degree with ds2.

You realize that evaluations are a form of intervention? Also, you need a full evaluation by a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychological evaluation by a psychologist--not just the WISC. Every professional you mentioned has extremely limited scope. My guess is that you're trying to avoid a diagnosis.

...why? If the therapy is working they aren't going to change it. The children are making progress in their identified needs and have had more than enough testing. I've provided therapy and evaluations for hundreds of children beyond age 5 with speech and language needs who have not received, nor needed, a full neuropsych because they had no needs in other areas. Because an SLP is the expert in the field of speech and language disorders, and a clinical psychologist is not licensed or qualified to assess language disorders and delays. (Which, incidentally, is the position of ASHA, since you keep linking those two generic articles from there.) If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, don't assume it's a cat in a duck suit.

I am, however, starting to think that you might need a full neuropsych to determine the underlying cause of your almost obsessive interest in having all children past age 5 evaluated.

+1000
My 7 year old is still in speech therapy. We started at age 2 and probably have another year or so left. But he's making consistent (if slow) progress and he has *no* other indications of any other delays or issues. He's thriving and doing well in school. Why would I do a full neuropsych?
His issues are speech based, so we focus on the experts in speech and language acquisition.

[Anonymous]

Hey hey hey...

We are a loving community of friends who help each other and each others' kids.

We mustn't parse words looking for criticism.

We assume good faith and good intentions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Hey hey hey...

We are a loving community of friends who help each other and each others' kids.

We mustn't parse words looking for criticism.

We assume good faith and good intentions.

I like this. Assume good intentions!

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Just ignore posts that demand that the poster acknowledge that her child has a disorder rather than a delay or that a neuropsych is needed if a reasonable determination has been made that one is not or that something is MERLD and much better than ASD unless you want to fall into the quagmire on this thread which is the most unhelpful part of this community, that is, one upping in terms of diagnosis, or making sure that everyone elses' child is as or more disabled than your own. Unfortunately, those posters exist and are very active.

And then there is chess mom, whose child is brilliant, a model, a prodigy, very social and friendly and you would never ever know he had ASD and they have had more accommodations than anyone else ever even though they apparently never really even needed them and whose child will beat you and everyone else at life and go to an Ivy.

Honestly, just ignore posters that are just furthering their own agenda, making posts about their own situation entirely, or have nothing useful to say. There is no "stopping" them.