I have a question about the Taylor Swift/Kanye West situation

[Anonymous]

Ha. That is true enough. For all we know this was all a contrived attempt to make Calvin Harris famous. Taylor was fine with it until Calvin dumped her...and Kanye proceeded w/o her go ahead to make that video.

Who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Even so, for me, the problem is still Taylor Swift's Grammy speech, which was entirely under Swift's own control. Swift said that other people would try to take credit for your fame and for your work, but if you stay strong you'll show that it's all because of YOU and the people who love you blah blah blah.

If her problem with the lyric was really being called a bitch, she should have made her Grammy speech about rampant misogyny in the music industry or in song lyrics, or about "friends" who stab you in the back, or BETTER YET just say thank you and get off the stage and have her people have her beef out with Kanye in private. But when she had had a phone call with West where she said she understood that to West it seemed like he made her famous because he didn't know her before he interrupted her, even though she had sold 7 million albums already, it was very wrong and victim-y to complain about him taking credit for her fame when she had told him that she understood his POV and it didn't bother her.

This this this. Her grammy speech didn't take issue with the b word, it took issue with "I made famous" part. She publicly tried to play the victim again with Calvin Harris's song. She's fake and a phony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Even so, for me, the problem is still Taylor Swift's Grammy speech, which was entirely under Swift's own control. Swift said that other people would try to take credit for your fame and for your work, but if you stay strong you'll show that it's all because of YOU and the people who love you blah blah blah.

If her problem with the lyric was really being called a bitch, she should have made her Grammy speech about rampant misogyny in the music industry or in song lyrics, or about "friends" who stab you in the back, or BETTER YET just say thank you and get off the stage and have her people have her beef out with Kanye in private. But when she had had a phone call with West where she said she understood that to West it seemed like he made her famous because he didn't know her before he interrupted her, even though she had sold 7 million albums already, it was very wrong and victim-y to complain about him taking credit for her fame when she had told him that she understood his POV and it didn't bother her.

This this this. Her grammy speech didn't take issue with the b word, it took issue with "I made famous" part. She publicly tried to play the victim again with Calvin Harris's song. She's fake and a phony.

Let's see...Taylor wrote the song and Rihanna performed it but Calvin Harris's name is on that song. Why is that?

And Kanye takes credit for making "that bitch famous" and then poses her nude likeness in a bed filled with other nude celebrities including Kanye, himself. Kanye, of course, is covered up but his wife's bare azz is out there and Rihanna is laying there topless....to be gawked at.

Maybe listen to her speech again because I don't know that you are getting what she is saying. It is not o.k. what he did.

[Anonymous]

My beef is that Taylor Swift hasn't said a single thing about how 'bitch' is used in rap culture in the past. She had Kendrick Lamar sing in one of her songs, he calls women bitches in his songs. She invited TI to perform with her. She performed with Nelly, Fetty Wap, Wiz Khalifa and Jason Derulo on her 1989 tour. These people have all called women bitches, are all prominent in hip hop culture. Taylor Swift knows music, she knows Kanyes music, he wrote a whole song about his wife calling her a B.

Add that to the part of the video where she clearly greenlights the concept of him rapping about how he made her famous and you get a weird disconnect.

TS is a savvy intelligent musician who is very tuned in to the differences and trends in genres (see her seamless transition to pop music while still writing her own music). She is exceptionally in control of her image. Her social media counts seem painstakingly curated to promote an image of 'good girl makes it big and surrounds herself with the COOLEST most AWESOME friends and we all do amazing awesome things together!" That is not real life, so its intentional on her part. And good for her you know. But I simply don't believe that after an hour long conversation discussing lyrics at the depth that they were discussing them that she would be all Scarlett O Hara over a bitch reference. You can talk about misogyny in rap music without lying and throwing someone completely under the bus to make yourself look good.

I'm not going to say I 'approve' of the way women are talked about in rap music (I don't) but its also a way bigger problem then Kanye West and there are rappers I would single out long before I went to KW.

She has changed her story about this issue like 7 times, she's landed on something kind of lofty that is hard to criticize, a master move from a master strategizer. I just find it incredibly disingenuous, especially paired with the part of the call where she talks about being close to overexposure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Even so, for me, the problem is still Taylor Swift's Grammy speech, which was entirely under Swift's own control. Swift said that other people would try to take credit for your fame and for your work, but if you stay strong you'll show that it's all because of YOU and the people who love you blah blah blah.

If her problem with the lyric was really being called a bitch, she should have made her Grammy speech about rampant misogyny in the music industry or in song lyrics, or about "friends" who stab you in the back, or BETTER YET just say thank you and get off the stage and have her people have her beef out with Kanye in private. But when she had had a phone call with West where she said she understood that to West it seemed like he made her famous because he didn't know her before he interrupted her, even though she had sold 7 million albums already, it was very wrong and victim-y to complain about him taking credit for her fame when she had told him that she understood his POV and it didn't bother her.

This this this. Her grammy speech didn't take issue with the b word, it took issue with "I made famous" part. She publicly tried to play the victim again with Calvin Harris's song. She's fake and a phony.

Let's see...Taylor wrote the song and Rihanna performed it but Calvin Harris's name is on that song. Why is that?

And Kanye takes credit for making "that bitch famous" and then poses her nude likeness in a bed filled with other nude celebrities including Kanye, himself. Kanye, of course, is covered up but his wife's bare azz is out there and Rihanna is laying there topless....to be gawked at.

Maybe listen to her speech again because I don't know that you are getting what she is saying. It is not o.k. what he did.

Her speech was made months before Kanye's video and why did she suggest hiding her involvement for a song, then later whining about not getting credit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Even so, for me, the problem is still Taylor Swift's Grammy speech, which was entirely under Swift's own control. Swift said that other people would try to take credit for your fame and for your work, but if you stay strong you'll show that it's all because of YOU and the people who love you blah blah blah.

If her problem with the lyric was really being called a bitch, she should have made her Grammy speech about rampant misogyny in the music industry or in song lyrics, or about "friends" who stab you in the back, or BETTER YET just say thank you and get off the stage and have her people have her beef out with Kanye in private. But when she had had a phone call with West where she said she understood that to West it seemed like he made her famous because he didn't know her before he interrupted her, even though she had sold 7 million albums already, it was very wrong and victim-y to complain about him taking credit for her fame when she had told him that she understood his POV and it didn't bother her.

This this this. Her grammy speech didn't take issue with the b word, it took issue with "I made famous" part. She publicly tried to play the victim again with Calvin Harris's song. She's fake and a phony.

Let's see...Taylor wrote the song and Rihanna performed it but Calvin Harris's name is on that song. Why is that?

And Kanye takes credit for making "that bitch famous" and then poses her nude likeness in a bed filled with other nude celebrities including Kanye, himself. Kanye, of course, is covered up but his wife's bare azz is out there and Rihanna is laying there topless....to be gawked at.

Maybe listen to her speech again because I don't know that you are getting what she is saying. It is not o.k. what he did.

Her speech was made months before Kanye's video and why did she suggest hiding her involvement for a song, then later whining about not getting credit?

You make good points and I don't know the answer to your questions. I think I heard that he ticked her off with a dismissive comment that he made and that made her say "Yeah? Well, I was the one who wrote Calvin's hit song" or something like that. But the bottom line is it is Calvin's name on that song - not Taylor's name (the one who wrote it) or Rihanna's name (the one who performed it). Taylor had suggested crediting the writing of the song to a made up writer but Calving somehow wound up taking full credit for it. I don't know that Calvin ever had Taylor's permission to put his name on the lyrics.

As far as the Famous debacle goes. At some point Taylor became aware of the lyrics of that song and she probably also became aware that there was a music video made of the song before it was actually released. She had a problem with Kanye's work and that is why she started to "whine" about it. But if he had done that to Beyonce or Katy Perry instead, I'll bet they would have "whined" too. Kanye was over the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

He got her "permission" by pretending to be her friend. He was probably just CYA because he knew that video was going to be way out of line especially in combination with those lyrics.

Taylor pretty much told him that she never would expect him to run the lines of his songs past her. That was Kanye pretending to be a friend to her while covering his own azz. I think he was deliberately deceptive.

As far as her own songs go - they really don't name specific names. People can see themselves in the songs, they may realize that they inspired her to write the songs, they may get attention for being the inspiration for the song but the songs could be about other people too and realistically they are probably about a combination of people/experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

Yeah, I think she should have known better than to trust him. He does not like her, hasn't like her since the moment that they first met (quite literally). But she thought that they had finally achieved a grudging respect for each other. Obviously that was not the case...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ha. That is true enough. For all we know this was all a contrived attempt to make Calvin Harris famous. Taylor was fine with it until Calvin dumped her...and Kanye proceeded w/o her go ahead to make that video.

Who knows.

[/quote

Calvin was very famous prior to Taylor - read his Wikipedia page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

He got her "permission" by pretending to be her friend. He was probably just CYA because he knew that video was going to be way out of line especially in combination with those lyrics.

Taylor pretty much told him that she never would expect him to run the lines of his songs past her. That was Kanye pretending to be a friend to her while covering his own azz. I think he was deliberately deceptive.

As far as her own songs go - they really don't name specific names. People can see themselves in the songs, they may realize that they inspired her to write the songs, they may get attention for being the inspiration for the song but the songs could be about other people too and realistically they are probably about a combination of people/experiences.

Come on, she relishes leaving little easter eggs so people know who the songs are about. Don't be so blinded by swift-ness that you can't see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

He got her "permission" by pretending to be her friend. He was probably just CYA because he knew that video was going to be way out of line especially in combination with those lyrics.

Taylor pretty much told him that she never would expect him to run the lines of his songs past her. That was Kanye pretending to be a friend to her while covering his own azz. I think he was deliberately deceptive.

As far as her own songs go - they really don't name specific names. People can see themselves in the songs, they may realize that they inspired her to write the songs, they may get attention for being the inspiration for the song but the songs could be about other people too and realistically they are probably about a combination of people/experiences.

Come on, she relishes leaving little easter eggs so people know who the songs are about. Don't be so blinded by swift-ness that you can't see that.

Yes, and I'm sure that if Kanye had laid pretty little easter eggs about her in his song she would have been fine with it. She's a big girl and she knows that's what singer/songwriters do.

But that big stinking rotten egg that Kanye unloaded...that was downright direct and quite offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

He got her "permission" by pretending to be her friend. He was probably just CYA because he knew that video was going to be way out of line especially in combination with those lyrics.

Taylor pretty much told him that she never would expect him to run the lines of his songs past her. That was Kanye pretending to be a friend to her while covering his own azz. I think he was deliberately deceptive.

As far as her own songs go - they really don't name specific names. People can see themselves in the songs, they may realize that they inspired her to write the songs, they may get attention for being the inspiration for the song but the songs could be about other people too and realistically they are probably about a combination of people/experiences.

He does not seem bright enough to try to trick her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Taylor initially lied or at least shaded the truth about the original phone call. He obviously did call her to discuss the lyric "have sex with" and ask her opinion on it and she just as obviously ok'd that line. She should not have done that and I hope she apologizes. So let's not rehash that part of the story, ok?


What I wonder is why people are acting like Taylor had no right to take issue with the insertion of the words "that bitch" into the next line. Maybe those words turned something that could have been funny and tongue in cheek to her into something she heard as mean spirited and disrespectful. I guess what I'm wondering is why people are acting like it's NOT misogynistic and hurtful to call women bitches? Just because it's common place in rap songs doesn't mean it's right or defensible. That's the part I'm not getting.

As a rapper she should have probably known the language that would be used. But I think the issue is her initial victim act was about the famous part which turns out she did know about. So she's know trying to spin it to be about the bitch part. Plus she's made a living writing songs that shamed others and even called out an actress as a whore in a dong. IMO you don't get to call someone a whore in your song and then get upset you were called a bitch. But hey-the truth hurts.

He got her "permission" by pretending to be her friend. He was probably just CYA because he knew that video was going to be way out of line especially in combination with those lyrics.

Taylor pretty much told him that she never would expect him to run the lines of his songs past her. That was Kanye pretending to be a friend to her while covering his own azz. I think he was deliberately deceptive.

As far as her own songs go - they really don't name specific names. People can see themselves in the songs, they may realize that they inspired her to write the songs, they may get attention for being the inspiration for the song but the songs could be about other people too and realistically they are probably about a combination of people/experiences.

Come on, she relishes leaving little easter eggs so people know who the songs are about. Don't be so blinded by swift-ness that you can't see that.

Yes, and I'm sure that if Kanye had laid pretty little easter eggs about her in his song she would have been fine with it. She's a big girl and she knows that's what singer/songwriters do.

But that big stinking rotten egg that Kanye unloaded...that was downright direct and quite offensive.

Honestly I'd rather someone tell me to my face if they have something to say. TS has become a mean girl, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe this is manufactured drama. They all have handlers and publicists. I am sure there is a machine manufacturing their image including Kanye being a bully and innocent Taylor being hurt by it.

Don't they both have albums about to be released? Coincidence?