Help! Socially challenged daughter...

[Anonymous]

I was like this, too, to a certain degree. I was also anxious and unhappy. I wish my parents had taken me to a therapist! I wouldn't hesitate, if you see that your child is unhappy, and this will allow you to pull away a little.

Therapy can be a wonderful thing!

[Anonymous]

10:00 here. I think some people are "group" people, they always have a group around them, they like to do things in a group, etc.

Some people are "one-on-one" people. They like to talk to one best friend and confide in that person.

Your DD is a "one-on-one" type and doesn't realize it, and she also doesn't realize there are others who are "group" people. Talk to her about that.

I think this is very true.

Therapy sounds like a bit much for an 8th grader who is having a difficult time reading and interacting with social norms (of 8th grade. Who DOESN'T have that problem in 8th grade?) I would be worried that putting too much pressure on her to change her behavior would be counter-productive and would make her all the more self conscious.

[Anonymous]

She has just always wanted that one best friend, and I get that.

Yeah. I was totally jealous of the girls who had those photos all over their rooms -- groups of girls with arms around each other after soccer games, at the prom, on a trip. I wasn't an outcast or anything, but I craved a type of intimacy with female friends that I didn't really find until after college. For some people, they never find their "clique." That doesn't mean they don't find their people, but those people just might not look like you expect them to.

One PP suggested that you watch Mean Girls together. Your daughter sounds a little like Gretchen -- the "second in command," kind of. She wants to be besties with the Regina of the group, not quite realizing that being the "BFF of" someone isn't an identity of itself.

I'd recommend getting/asking her to think about diversifying her activities and "shopping" for her people from a large variety of options. If her "person" ends up being the Queen of the Plastics again, intervene early.

But, really, this sounds pretty normal to me. High school and middle school girls can be mean as &$^#. Some of the most popular HS seniors I've seen had similar moments in their social development.

[Anonymous]

I think therapy might help.. Two thoughts and neither is a bad thing: one is that she may be a lesbian and that is tough for a teenager. its hard to manage crushes. The other is that she may be very borderline Aspergers. Aspergers symptoms for girls are very different than for boys. I know because I have a teenage grand daughter with very mild Aspergers

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. It is very helpful.

To those of you who think that I am too involved - I certainly understand that. I wish I could step back. As others pointed out, that's one good reason to send her to a therapist. I am usually a "natural consequences" parent. I let my kids make mistakes and deal with the consequences. But, in this situation, she would self-destruct. I have no doubt about it. Also, she actually reaches out to me and wants my help quite often. though there are plenty of other times when she thinks I'm being nosy.

Most of what I know about her drama is from her texts and instagram. I will not apologize for snooping on her phone! that was the deal when she got her phone and opened social media accounts. I have full access to them until I feel that she is mature and knowledgeable enough to handle it on her own. She obviously hasn't reached that point.

I do not think she's a lesbian, but I guess I wouldn't completely rule that out. She certainly doesn't go for the most attractive in the group. And based on the male crushes she's had, appearance seems to be a big factor for her. :/ Like I said, this started in preschool. Then in grade school. Again (sort of) in 6th grade. Now it's happening again. It's always the most outgoing in the group that she's drawn to. Every single time. I think she just has this vision of hanging out with a bff, laughing, and being silly all the time. She just can't picture someone quieter (like her) being that way. It's easier to visualize having that with someone who already acts that way. She has some friends at school who are quiet and laid back, but she doesn't have any desire to hang out with them outside of school.

People have said to me that it's a teenage thing and she will outgrow it, but it's not a teen thing in her case. It's the way she's always been.

I hate to pull her away from this group because it really is a great group of girls. they haven't done anything wrong. They are definitely pulling away from her, but I can't blame them for that. When she went through this in grade school, it was a group that I couldn't wait to get her away from. She was much better off without them. But that's not the case here. It's a dance team that she is on, and I simply can't pay all this money again next year when there is nothing but drama. I can't take dance away from her completely, but I'm thinking I can find something that is a more focused and less social setting.

I think it's a great idea to watch mean girls with her. I haven't seen it yet and I don't think she has either.

Someone mentioned Asperger's. I took a quick look at the symptoms and I think that could be a possibility. I need to take a much closer look at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Someone mentioned Asperger's. I took a quick look at the symptoms and I think that could be a possibility. I need to take a much closer look at that.

If she has been OK with making groups of friends but then just gets weird after that, I think it's unlikely that she has Asperger's. It's not a catch-all for socially idiosyncratic behavior - it is an almost complete inability to naturally process social and emotional cues. Think Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory. The fact that your daughter understands what her behavior is doing is very telling that she has some social understanding, but she's letting her emotions and jealousy get the best of her.

[Anonymous]

OP- You sound like a great mom. My DD behaves similarly in that she latches on to a BFF. I don't think your situation is unique. I actually was talking to another mom this morning too who has a DD in my daughter's grade and she said that her daughter does the same thing. However, I think what makes your DD's situation more unique is that she gravitates to the most popular child and gets jealous too easily.

Do you stress popularity in your household? If you are worried so much about her socially could she interpret your desires as that she needs to improve her social standing? Being BFF's with a child of high social standing would increase hers. In your DD's situation, that higher social standing is short lived as she eventually becomes the outcast. Of course this makes her doubt herself more and she's probably more easily manipulated the next time due to the "fall".

If I were you, I would focus on helping her determine what characteristics that she needs to look for in friends. I wouldn't force her into trying to be a part of a large group of "friends" as that's not her style but encourage her to invite different friends over. Probably easier if one is soccer and another is from church (eg). If she has different friends from different groups, maybe she'll develop the confidence that she needs so that she doesn't become too dependent on one.

When you start to see things become unhealthy like looking at Instagram 25 times in a day, take away her phone etc and have her invite another friend over to do something fun.

I know what I've written is overly simplistic. I think the fact that she has some awareness of what she does is a good thing. One day she'll realize the emotional drain isn't worth that temporary high.

I also tell my DD that

[Anonymous]

My 8 year old daughter, who does have Aspergers, is much younger, but also alienates people by globbing onto one kid and one kid only. It is only through lots of explicit teaching that she is beginning to understand that she can have more than one friend and that her friend can also have more than one friend.

The best social skills groups for teenagers that I've heard of is PEERS: http://caatonline.com/treatment/peers/
I'd suggest that you call David Black -- who is awesome -- and discuss whether the group would be appropriate for your daughter.

I had social difficulties in middle and high school -- more than typical, I think, but no diagnosis -- and I wish I had gotten more support. I don't think it can hurt, since the status quo is making her unhappy.

[Anonymous]

Fascinating. I was going to suggest anxiety because one of my DDs friends has a similar pattern (sort of there is always her new "it" girl that is just way cooler than everyone else for a year or sop and then it changes). This girl definitely has anxiety issues and I have sometime wondered about Aspergers . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. It is very helpful.

To those of you who think that I am too involved - I certainly understand that. I wish I could step back. As others pointed out, that's one good reason to send her to a therapist. I am usually a "natural consequences" parent. I let my kids make mistakes and deal with the consequences. But, in this situation, she would self-destruct. I have no doubt about it. Also, she actually reaches out to me and wants my help quite often. though there are plenty of other times when she thinks I'm being nosy.

Most of what I know about her drama is from her texts and instagram. I will not apologize for snooping on her phone! that was the deal when she got her phone and opened social media accounts. I have full access to them until I feel that she is mature and knowledgeable enough to handle it on her own. She obviously hasn't reached that point.

I do not think she's a lesbian, but I guess I wouldn't completely rule that out. She certainly doesn't go for the most attractive in the group. And based on the male crushes she's had, appearance seems to be a big factor for her. :/ Like I said, this started in preschool. Then in grade school. Again (sort of) in 6th grade. Now it's happening again. It's always the most outgoing in the group that she's drawn to. Every single time. I think she just has this vision of hanging out with a bff, laughing, and being silly all the time. She just can't picture someone quieter (like her) being that way. It's easier to visualize having that with someone who already acts that way. She has some friends at school who are quiet and laid back, but she doesn't have any desire to hang out with them outside of school.

People have said to me that it's a teenage thing and she will outgrow it, but it's not a teen thing in her case. It's the way she's always been.

I hate to pull her away from this group because it really is a great group of girls. they haven't done anything wrong. They are definitely pulling away from her, but I can't blame them for that. When she went through this in grade school, it was a group that I couldn't wait to get her away from. She was much better off without them. But that's not the case here. It's a dance team that she is on, and I simply can't pay all this money again next year when there is nothing but drama. I can't take dance away from her completely, but I'm thinking I can find something that is a more focused and less social setting.

I think it's a great idea to watch mean girls with her. I haven't seen it yet and I don't think she has either.

Someone mentioned Asperger's. I took a quick look at the symptoms and I think that could be a possibility. I need to take a much closer look at that.

OP- of course it's your decision, but I'm not sure I would pull her off of the dance team. I think your daughter would benefit from social skills therapy (I'm one of the folks who mentioned this earlier) and perhaps individual therapy. Whether it's anxiety, Aspergers, or just a difficult, insecure personality your DD needs to learn how to interact socially. She may need to develop more "theory of mind" or better impulse/anxiety control. Teens can be forgiving- if your DD becomes more calm and easier to be around, she may be able to continue on the dance team. It may give her some confidence to resolve issues and keep with something that she enjoys.

I have a friend with some similarities - we have been friends for many years starting in high school. She has had a lot of difficulty understanding that other peoples' feelings, decisions, or actions weren't about her or how others felt about her. It remained a problem until she was a mature adult in her mid to late thirties (!)-- she constantly felt excluded, slighted, etc., and it caused her a lot of pain and poor decision making, especially when choosing intimate relationships. I spent many years talking with her about making better choices, but her impulsivity and poor emotional responses were barriers to change. Even as a best friend, we had struggles because it was incredibly frustrating to watch her make the same mistakes repeatedly. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with anxiety and needed to take medication.

My point is that the problems you mention are familiar to me and not to be alarmist, may continue past high school without intervention. The fact that this is an ongoing pattern is cause for concern-- I'm not trying to say that your DD is headed down the road of my close friend, I'm just saying that you are right not to be complacent. It's friends now, but wait until boys enter the picture...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

1. She would benefit from therapy if only because you shouldn't always be in the role of helping her work through this. Its very stressful for you and you have your own anxieties about whats happening. Others see you as overinvolved and there's something to that but its also an outgrowth of taking on the responsibility of your DD's happiness. If you can delegate this to a professional it will help both of you.

2. My DD used to have a lot of issues with friends -- they were "mean" to her, or she felt like she didn't really have friends. Ultimately things kind of snowballed and she was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder that often manifested as social anxiety. I'm not saying thats what happening with your DD but its something to be aware of and another reason to bring a professional in.

3. Is it possible she is gay and is having crushes on these girls, resulting in stronger emotions around it all? Just putting that out there.

Middle school is tough and many girls work this out by high school but some just get in a deeper hole, my DD included. There are a lot of reasons here to get some outside help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

1. She would benefit from therapy if only because you shouldn't always be in the role of helping her work through this. Its very stressful for you and you have your own anxieties about whats happening. Others see you as overinvolved and there's something to that but its also an outgrowth of taking on the responsibility of your DD's happiness. If you can delegate this to a professional it will help both of you.

2. My DD used to have a lot of issues with friends -- they were "mean" to her, or she felt like she didn't really have friends. Ultimately things kind of snowballed and she was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder that often manifested as social anxiety. I'm not saying thats what happening with your DD but its something to be aware of and another reason to bring a professional in.

3. Is it possible she is gay and is having crushes on these girls, resulting in stronger emotions around it all? Just putting that out there.

Middle school is tough and many girls work this out by high school but some just get in a deeper hole, my DD included. There are a lot of reasons here to get some outside help.

This. I'm into both genders and this was the case for me. I didn't come out until college. Anyway, not saying that is the reason for your daughter, but this is exactly what happened with my friendships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice so far. It is very helpful.

To those of you who think that I am too involved - I certainly understand that. I wish I could step back. As others pointed out, that's one good reason to send her to a therapist. I am usually a "natural consequences" parent. I let my kids make mistakes and deal with the consequences. But, in this situation, she would self-destruct. I have no doubt about it. Also, she actually reaches out to me and wants my help quite often. though there are plenty of other times when she thinks I'm being nosy.

Most of what I know about her drama is from her texts and instagram. I will not apologize for snooping on her phone! that was the deal when she got her phone and opened social media accounts. I have full access to them until I feel that she is mature and knowledgeable enough to handle it on her own. She obviously hasn't reached that point.

I do not think she's a lesbian, but I guess I wouldn't completely rule that out. She certainly doesn't go for the most attractive in the group. And based on the male crushes she's had, appearance seems to be a big factor for her. :/ Like I said, this started in preschool. Then in grade school. Again (sort of) in 6th grade. Now it's happening again. It's always the most outgoing in the group that she's drawn to. Every single time. I think she just has this vision of hanging out with a bff, laughing, and being silly all the time. She just can't picture someone quieter (like her) being that way. It's easier to visualize having that with someone who already acts that way. She has some friends at school who are quiet and laid back, but she doesn't have any desire to hang out with them outside of school.

People have said to me that it's a teenage thing and she will outgrow it, but it's not a teen thing in her case. It's the way she's always been.

I hate to pull her away from this group because it really is a great group of girls. they haven't done anything wrong. They are definitely pulling away from her, but I can't blame them for that. When she went through this in grade school, it was a group that I couldn't wait to get her away from. She was much better off without them. But that's not the case here. It's a dance team that she is on, and I simply can't pay all this money again next year when there is nothing but drama. I can't take dance away from her completely, but I'm thinking I can find something that is a more focused and less social setting.

I think it's a great idea to watch mean girls with her. I haven't seen it yet and I don't think she has either.

Someone mentioned Asperger's. I took a quick look at the symptoms and I think that could be a possibility. I need to take a much closer look at that.

So your DD is more introverted?

My DD is younger but does the same things. She always latches on to the most outgoing, popular girl and wants to be BFFs. My feeling is that my DD latches on because she herself wants to be like the popular girl and be outgoing and a social butterfly but that's not her nature. Also, I have discovered that my DD's idea of friendship in her own is very rigid as in a friend always does X and can never, ever deviate or else they are not a friend. I also think there is an issue with social anxiety and we are going to look into medication.

[Anonymous]

Get a job OP! You've got too much time on your hands and are way too involved in your kid's social life to her detriment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get a job OP! You've got too much time on your hands and are way too involved in your kid's social life to her detriment.

stfu