Michelle O doesn't wear a headscarf in Saudi Arabia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am married to an Egyptian Muslim who does business in different middle eastern countries. I told him I'd never go somewhere I was forced to wear a headscarf. I can see Condi having to go to KSA because it was her job. But couldn't Michelle have taken a pass on this trip?

In a way, I think it would be cowardly to "leave Michelle at home." Having her out there puts a public image on Saudi backwardsness. I'm not anti-Muslim - I was raised in the religion, and know that it's not the religion itself that's a problem, but how people practice their (often offensive) version of it. It's wrong to be complacent in the face of state-sanctioned sexism and misogyny. That shit needs to be shown for the embarrassment and backwardness that it is. Michelle being there helped give a visual of this.

[Anonymous]

Non-Muslim women are not required to wear a headscarf in KSA, only an abaya.

Nevertheless, why are you surprised that different standards apply to VIPs compared to the rest of us?

[Anonymous]

I am a non-Muslim married to a Saudi, and when we travel there, I cover my face in addition to my head - just because I don't want to be stared at. Michelle Obama lives in a different world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking forward to the mouthbreather reaction to this one. Will they be able to reconcile their hatred for Michelle O. with their hatred for Islam?

http://wtop.com/world/2015/01/reaction-michelle-obama-doesnt-wear-headscarf-saudi-arabia/

Why are you so polemical? Its possible to be a conservative woman and all in for women's right. The first lady showed a great side of America with her stately presence and choice. What is the issue exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am married to an Egyptian Muslim who does business in different middle eastern countries. I told him I'd never go somewhere I was forced to wear a headscarf. I can see Condi having to go to KSA because it was her job. But couldn't Michelle have taken a pass on this trip?

In a way, I think it would be cowardly to "leave Michelle at home." Having her out there puts a public image on Saudi backwardsness. I'm not anti-Muslim - I was raised in the religion, and know that it's not the religion itself that's a problem, but how people practice their (often offensive) version of it. It's wrong to be complacent in the face of state-sanctioned sexism and misogyny. That shit needs to be shown for the embarrassment and backwardness that it is. Michelle being there helped give a visual of this.

I understand your point. It's just that I get faced with going to KSA every year, and every year the thought makes me ill. The brutal sexism just seems so insurmountable to me. I have female friends, wealthy, who are banned from leaving the country by their male relatives. Women in their 40s and 50s! It sickens me too much to ever want to step foot in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking forward to the mouthbreather reaction to this one. Will they be able to reconcile their hatred for Michelle O. with their hatred for Islam?

http://wtop.com/world/2015/01/reaction-michelle-obama-doesnt-wear-headscarf-saudi-arabia/

Why are you so polemical? Its possible to be a conservative woman and all in for women's right. The first lady showed a great side of America with her stately presence and choice. What is the issue exactly?

Because conservatives seem to make a point of criticizing Michelle Obama at every turn. I wonder if their heads exploded with this one. Because, as is demonstrated fact, conservatives aren't smart, so cognitive dissonance tends to confuzzle them.

[Anonymous]

What she wears is a non-issue. It only matters to the people that follow her. Whether she was there or not, and what she wore, made zero difference on what happened that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laura Bush also didn't wear a headscarf when she visited Saudi.

I think this is the right decision. Wearing a headscarf should be a personal decision, and no one should be pressured to wear one - Muslim or not, political visit or not.

I also think it was smart of her to attend the meeting of the dignitaries. It highlights the absolute backwardsness of conservative Saudi's in their total ignoring of women. A few men acknowledged her and shook her hand, but most pretended she didn't even exist standing there. That looks bad for Saudi Arabia. It's shameful.

Good for Michelle O! Love her!

Touching an unrelated female is actual prohibited under Islam (do remember which sect), so this is not really ignoring. The article I read stated that the one who did not shake nodded - which I understand is an acceptable alternative to hand shakes.

This is not true. It's what some very conservative Muslims believe, but is by no means is it a prohibition in Islam. It's extremely rude of them.

I was raised Muslim, and a nod is not an "acceptable alternative" - it's highly offensive. It means you're painting me as someone who will taint you, or you can't control yourself around me (or other women). It's rude and highly offensive.

WRONG WRONG WRONG
He nodded is head down. If his head had nodded it up it would have meant something different in Middle Eastern culture. Also, in Saudi Arabia non-Muslim women are not required to cover their face or hair. Yes, some traditional Muslim men do not like to touch unrelated females, that includes handshake's-just like Orthodox Jews (Orthadox jewish women also cover their hair).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laura Bush also didn't wear a headscarf when she visited Saudi.

I think this is the right decision. Wearing a headscarf should be a personal decision, and no one should be pressured to wear one - Muslim or not, political visit or not.

I also think it was smart of her to attend the meeting of the dignitaries. It highlights the absolute backwardsness of conservative Saudi's in their total ignoring of women. A few men acknowledged her and shook her hand, but most pretended she didn't even exist standing there. That looks bad for Saudi Arabia. It's shameful.

Good for Michelle O! Love her!

Touching an unrelated female is actual prohibited under Islam (do remember which sect), so this is not really ignoring. The article I read stated that the one who did not shake nodded - which I understand is an acceptable alternative to hand shakes.

This is not true. It's what some very conservative Muslims believe, but is by no means is it a prohibition in Islam. It's extremely rude of them.

I was raised Muslim, and a nod is not an "acceptable alternative" - it's highly offensive. It means you're painting me as someone who will taint you, or you can't control yourself around me (or other women). It's rude and highly offensive.

WRONG WRONG WRONG
He nodded is head down. If his head had nodded it up it would have meant something different in Middle Eastern culture. Also, in Saudi Arabia non-Muslim women are not required to cover their face or hair. Yes, some traditional Muslim men do not like to touch unrelated females, that includes handshake's-just like Orthodox Jews (Orthadox jewish women also cover their hair).

I don't like to wear pants in public, but I do so because it's polite to my fellow human beings. "Like" is irrelevant, whether you're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, atheist, or whatever. There are things you do out of respect - like acknowledging people. Acknowledging women as people, not as sexual beings that will transmit cooties to you. A handshake is pretty universal - if a Muslim man can shale a male's hand, they can shake a female's hand. This isn't about religion, it's about inherent cultural misogyny. That shit needs to change.

[Anonymous]

I am generally a big fan of Michelle Obama, but I would have worn the headscarf. I went to a Muslim wedding in the US and wore long sleeves, a long skirt, and a headscarf to accommodate my hosts. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about misogyny in their religion, so I figure that if I was going to accept the invite, I should go along with the religious dress code requirements of the event.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am generally a big fan of Michelle Obama, but I would have worn the headscarf. I went to a Muslim wedding in the US and wore long sleeves, a long skirt, and a headscarf to accommodate my hosts. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about misogyny in their religion, so I figure that if I was going to accept the invite, I should go along with the religious dress code requirements of the event.

I'm the PP who refuses to go to Saudi. I wear a headscarf in a mosque, out of respect, but I'd have a fit if I were required to wear one just to go out in public. That's not respect, to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laura Bush also didn't wear a headscarf when she visited Saudi.

I think this is the right decision. Wearing a headscarf should be a personal decision, and no one should be pressured to wear one - Muslim or not, political visit or not.

I also think it was smart of her to attend the meeting of the dignitaries. It highlights the absolute backwardsness of conservative Saudi's in their total ignoring of women. A few men acknowledged her and shook her hand, but most pretended she didn't even exist standing there. That looks bad for Saudi Arabia. It's shameful.

Good for Michelle O! Love her!

Touching an unrelated female is actual prohibited under Islam (do remember which sect), so this is not really ignoring. The article I read stated that the one who did not shake nodded - which I understand is an acceptable alternative to hand shakes.

This is not true. It's what some very conservative Muslims believe, but is by no means is it a prohibition in Islam. It's extremely rude of them.

I was raised Muslim, and a nod is not an "acceptable alternative" - it's highly offensive. It means you're painting me as someone who will taint you, or you can't control yourself around me (or other women). It's rude and highly offensive.

WRONG WRONG WRONG
He nodded is head down. If his head had nodded it up it would have meant something different in Middle Eastern culture. Also, in Saudi Arabia non-Muslim women are not required to cover their face or hair. Yes, some traditional Muslim men do not like to touch unrelated females, that includes handshake's-just like Orthodox Jews (Orthadox jewish women also cover their hair).

I don't like to wear pants in public, but I do so because it's polite to my fellow human beings. "Like" is irrelevant, whether you're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, atheist, or whatever. There are things you do out of respect - like acknowledging people. Acknowledging women as people, not as sexual beings that will transmit cooties to you. A handshake is pretty universal - if a Muslim man can shale a male's hand, they can shake a female's hand. This isn't about religion, it's about inherent cultural misogyny. That shit needs to change.

Respect has different manifestations in different cultures. "That shit" isn't going to change because of what you think, or because of what Michelle Obama wears. People have their own culture.

For example, in the Gulf culture, acknowledging a married female in the presence of her husband at any length except the most superficial is considered rude. Conservative Gulf men won't look at or speak directly, if possible, with a wife of a man they know. They will route all interactions through the man, because paying attention to the wife of another man is considered disrespectful. They won't even look you in the eye. To them, looking at you and speaking with you directly is disrespectful to women. I know it's alien to you, but they don't care what you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am generally a big fan of Michelle Obama, but I would have worn the headscarf. I went to a Muslim wedding in the US and wore long sleeves, a long skirt, and a headscarf to accommodate my hosts. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about misogyny in their religion, so I figure that if I was going to accept the invite, I should go along with the religious dress code requirements of the event.

She did, I think. Everything I have read indicates that non-Muslim women are not required to wear a headscarf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Laura Bush also didn't wear a headscarf when she visited Saudi.

I think this is the right decision. Wearing a headscarf should be a personal decision, and no one should be pressured to wear one - Muslim or not, political visit or not.

I also think it was smart of her to attend the meeting of the dignitaries. It highlights the absolute backwardsness of conservative Saudi's in their total ignoring of women. A few men acknowledged her and shook her hand, but most pretended she didn't even exist standing there. That looks bad for Saudi Arabia. It's shameful.

Good for Michelle O! Love her!

Touching an unrelated female is actual prohibited under Islam (do remember which sect), so this is not really ignoring. The article I read stated that the one who did not shake nodded - which I understand is an acceptable alternative to hand shakes.

This is not true. It's what some very conservative Muslims believe, but is by no means is it a prohibition in Islam. It's extremely rude of them.

I was raised Muslim, and a nod is not an "acceptable alternative" - it's highly offensive. It means you're painting me as someone who will taint you, or you can't control yourself around me (or other women). It's rude and highly offensive.

WRONG WRONG WRONG
He nodded is head down. If his head had nodded it up it would have meant something different in Middle Eastern culture. Also, in Saudi Arabia non-Muslim women are not required to cover their face or hair. Yes, some traditional Muslim men do not like to touch unrelated females, that includes handshake's-just like Orthodox Jews (Orthadox jewish women also cover their hair).

I don't like to wear pants in public, but I do so because it's polite to my fellow human beings. "Like" is irrelevant, whether you're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, atheist, or whatever. There are things you do out of respect - like acknowledging people. Acknowledging women as people, not as sexual beings that will transmit cooties to you. A handshake is pretty universal - if a Muslim man can shale a male's hand, they can shake a female's hand. This isn't about religion, it's about inherent cultural misogyny. That shit needs to change.

Respect has different manifestations in different cultures. "That shit" isn't going to change because of what you think, or because of what Michelle Obama wears. People have their own culture.

For example, in the Gulf culture, acknowledging a married female in the presence of her husband at any length except the most superficial is considered rude. Conservative Gulf men won't look at or speak directly, if possible, with a wife of a man they know. They will route all interactions through the man, because paying attention to the wife of another man is considered disrespectful. They won't even look you in the eye. To them, looking at you and speaking with you directly is disrespectful to women. I know it's alien to you, but they don't care what you think.

It's not alien to me, I was raised Muslim. But "culture" or "religion" don't get passes on misogyny and sexism, for those reasons. Believe me - I already know a conservative Saudi male doesn't care what I or any other woman thinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking forward to the mouthbreather reaction to this one. Will they be able to reconcile their hatred for Michelle O. with their hatred for Islam?

http://wtop.com/world/2015/01/reaction-michelle-obama-doesnt-wear-headscarf-saudi-arabia/

Why are you so polemical? Its possible to be a conservative woman and all in for women's right. The first lady showed a great side of America with her stately presence and choice. What is the issue exactly?