Near Death Experience proves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's true then - NDE's prove an afterlife? when will the major religions get on board? or perhaps there will be a new religion based on NDE's.

too reminiscent of flatliners with Kiefer Sutherland . . .

Or, maybe the screenplay could be the NDE's new bible

and there could be a smartphone app for it. A religion for the 21st century

[Anonymous]

As an unbeliever I don't get angry, I get sad. Sad that people can't appreciate the wonder of their existence without making up these fanciful stories.

I get sad that instead of appreciating the incredible science of existence they have to insist on something more, something childish like immortality when they wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it. It just seems so ungrateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's interesting how angry unbelievers get when faced with the idea that life may continue after death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXqrEsCRars

"Unbeliever" here. The idea that some kind of awareness might continue after physical death doesn't anger me. If true, it simply means there's something going on that we don't yet understand, because we don't have any physical explanation for how such an event might happen. However, most (if not all) of the reported near-death experiences have been debunked or some alternative explanation has been provided.

But even if true, such an event does not provide any proof of the existence of a deity or the validity of any religious text.

So, what happens to consciousness and awareness at the boundary between life and death is an interesting question - one that has demonstrated that the boundary between such states is more of a continuum than a binary event like a light switch - but as far as I know there has been no scientifically valid (testable, repeatable, falsifiable) evidence of any kind of consciousness or awareness existing beyond the point where there is no physically detectable activity in the body.

You're right. Let me paraphrase. It's interesting how SOME unbelievers get angry when faced with the idea that life continues after death.
If unbelievers have no explanation to offer then maybe it's time for them to consider the explanation that has been available for thousands of years. No one has debunked NDE's. They have a theory for why some may see lights during clinical death but can not offer any explanation for why dead patients were able to know the intimate details of conversations between people in other rooms or other places. And they will never be able to offer an explanation for it because the only explanation for it is that there is an afterlife, there is a soul or consciousness, and that soul or consciousness is endowed with powers beyond what is understandable by scientists on earth.

Holy books have been talking about an afterlife, a soul or consciousness, God and the Heavens for thousands of years. If the concept of a soul or consciousness exists, then it follows that the other things the holy books spoke of may also be true. At least a rational person should recognize that it is not wise to vehemently discount them. After all, how foolish do they feel now that they can not offer any explanation for why dead patients can hear the conversations of people in other rooms, buildings, or even across different cities?

Steven King books (to randomly choose another bestselling author of fiction) have been talking about a lot of stuff for years. If some of that stuff is true, then does it follow that all of that stuff is true?

If so, CRAP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And here are the ones who refute the "foolish" people but can't seem to come up with an alternative explanation:


http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostrich_head_in_sand.jpg

b/c the ostrich proves your point

How difficult is it to do a little bit of research?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/264740.php

George Mashour, assistant professor of anesthesiology and neurosurgery at the University of Michigan, explains:

"We were surprised by the high levels of activity. In fact, at near-death, many known electrical signatures of consciousness exceeded levels found in the waking state, suggesting that the brain is capable of well-organized electrical activity during the early stage of clinical death."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/08/12/211324316/brains-of-dying-rats-yield-clues-about-near-death-experiences

Just after the rats' hearts stopped, there was a burst of brain activity. Their brain suddenly seemed to go into overdrive, showing all the hallmarks not only of consciousness but a kind of hyperconsciousness.

"We found continued and heightened activity," Borjigan says. "Measurable conscious activity is much, much higher after the heart stops — within the first 30 seconds."

Borjigin and her colleagues think they essentially discovered the neurological basis for near-death experiences. "That really just, just really blew our mind. ... That really is consistent with what patients report," she says.

Patients report that what they experienced felt more real than reality — so intense that it's often described as life-altering.

---------------------------
Okay…lets look at the Medical News Today article. The first line reads:
"A near-death experience (NDE) is defined as a psychological event that occurs when a person is close to death."

This is factually incorrect. A near death experience is actually not an experience that is simply near or close to death, but not really death. A near death experience is an experience that occurs after CLINICAL DEATH OF THE PATIENT. So whether the brain is extremely active or not "close to death" is not the same analysis as whether the brain is active after death.

In fact, the brain may indeed be very active close to death and even a few seconds after death because it is struggling to try to keep the body alive.

After about four minutes of heart beat cessation, the body can still be revived sometimes without any brain damage. However, after four minutes, it is likely that the patient suffers brain damage. This is because the brain realizes it is losing in that fight to stay alive. What did that article say about brain activity after 30 seconds, however? Nothing. Because there was no brain activity after 30 seconds, thats why. Contrast this with many NDE experiences, however. There are many cases of NDE'ers who have been clinically dead for well past four minutes and there were monitors on their brain and heart. There was no brain activity at all after four minutes of clinical death. None. Yet some people were revived and had profound inexplicable experiences. That Dr. Lloyd Rudy link I sent you was one particular example. And in that example, it was with a real human being, not a rat.

Please refute by finding evidence that talks about brain activity continuing after four minutes of clinical death and also an

[Anonymous]

Please refute by finding evidence that talks about brain activity after the first 30 seconds and also evidence on HOW DEAD PATIENTS KNEW THE INTIMATE DETAILS OF PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE HOSPITAL AND EVEN IN FURTHER LOCATIONS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please refute by finding evidence that talks about brain activity after the first 30 seconds and also evidence on HOW DEAD PATIENTS KNEW THE INTIMATE DETAILS OF PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE HOSPITAL AND EVEN IN FURTHER LOCATIONS.

so when is the NDE app available?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please refute by finding evidence that talks about brain activity after the first 30 seconds and also evidence on HOW DEAD PATIENTS KNEW THE INTIMATE DETAILS OF PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE HOSPITAL AND EVEN IN FURTHER LOCATIONS.

This, and how they came back with info about dead relatives they never knew in real life / didn't know about previously at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's interesting how angry unbelievers get when faced with the idea that life may continue after death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXqrEsCRars

"Unbeliever" here. The idea that some kind of awareness might continue after physical death doesn't anger me. If true, it simply means there's something going on that we don't yet understand, because we don't have any physical explanation for how such an event might happen. However, most (if not all) of the reported near-death experiences have been debunked or some alternative explanation has been provided.

But even if true, such an event does not provide any proof of the existence of a deity or the validity of any religious text.

So, what happens to consciousness and awareness at the boundary between life and death is an interesting question - one that has demonstrated that the boundary between such states is more of a continuum than a binary event like a light switch - but as far as I know there has been no scientifically valid (testable, repeatable, falsifiable) evidence of any kind of consciousness or awareness existing beyond the point where there is no physically detectable activity in the body.

You're right. Let me paraphrase. It's interesting how SOME unbelievers get angry when faced with the idea that life continues after death.
If unbelievers have no explanation to offer then maybe it's time for them to consider the explanation that has been available for thousands of years. No one has debunked NDE's. They have a theory for why some may see lights during clinical death but can not offer any explanation for why dead patients were able to know the intimate details of conversations between people in other rooms or other places. And they will never be able to offer an explanation for it because the only explanation for it is that there is an afterlife, there is a soul or consciousness, and that soul or consciousness is endowed with powers beyond what is understandable by scientists on earth.

Holy books have been talking about an afterlife, a soul or consciousness, God and the Heavens for thousands of years. If the concept of a soul or consciousness exists, then it follows that the other things the holy books spoke of may also be true. At least a rational person should recognize that it is not wise to vehemently discount them. After all, how foolish do they feel now that they can not offer any explanation for why dead patients can hear the conversations of people in other rooms, buildings, or even across different cities?

Steven King books (to randomly choose another bestselling author of fiction) have been talking about a lot of stuff for years. If some of that stuff is true, then does it follow that all of that stuff is true?

If so, CRAP!

Still waiting on the evidence of how dead patients knew of intimate details to conversations in other locations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an unbeliever I don't get angry, I get sad. Sad that people can't appreciate the wonder of their existence without making up these fanciful stories.

I get sad that instead of appreciating the incredible science of existence they have to insist on something more, something childish like immortality when they wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it. It just seems so ungrateful.

Awww, don't be sad. Just bring the evidence of how dead patients can hear details of conversations of others in faraway locations.

[Anonymous]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/bright-lights-big-mystery

There are still many unanswered questions that science will continue to research. Again, the world was once flat, right? It no longer is . . . So perhaps one day we'll figure out how NDEs overheard conversations in other rooms.

Below are "cultural accounts" of NDEs. The mind is simply using what it knows to create an "afterlife" during those few seconds the brain is still working after the heart has stopped.

That isn't to say there aren't cultural differences:

o Many of the Africans interpreted the event as somewhat evil; half thought the experience signified that they were somehow "bewitched." Another called it a "bad women."

o Among 400 Japanese NDErs, many reported seeing long, dark rivers and beautiful flowers, two common symbols that frequently appear as images in Japanese art.

o East Indians sometimes see heaven as a giant bureaucracy, and frequently report being sent back because of clerical errors!

o Americans and English say they are sent back for love or to perform a job.

o Natives of Micronesia often see heaven as similar to a large, brightly lit American city with loud, noisy cars and tall buildings.

To Morse and other investigators, these experiences are not as different as they seem. It is merely the individual interpretations that differ. Many report that their NDEs are, like dreams, "difficult to put into words." That forces them to borrow images from personal experience and apply them to their NDE. And the discrepancies found in reports do not signify mass hysteria or hallucinations. On the contrary, the similarities across a wide variety of cultures, ages, and religions support the idea that being near death not only triggers a specific type of experience, but that the experience is "transcendental"—that there is entry into another dimension of being.

[Anonymous]

Do people who experience NDEs ever learn that there is one true religion -- and it's not theirs so they are told to come back to life and practice the right religion if they want to go to heaven when they die for good?

[Anonymous]

My own NDE profoundly changed me.

Contrary to what the pp posted, my experience was nothing at all like it should have been had I been relating it to past experience.

The presence (and that's not a great word, but it's the only one I can come up with) I encountered was the opposite of what I should have seen. I was raised in a traditional, fundie Southern Baptist Church. I should have seen "God" as a male figure all in white judging my life. I should have seen golden gates. Thrones. Saints..... All that Biblical imagery of God. That's how I was raised. That's all I knew at the time.

I did not. The presence was definitely female in nature. This is the hard part - it wasn't gender. And if I had to assign a gender, I would probably say male, but it was a female essence. Maternal for sure. I felt like I was returning to what I had always known. I remember distinctly thinking "How could I not have known this." and "I've always known you." and mostly "How did I forget about this?". I absolutely know that I was home. I was back where I started. And I really didn't want to leave. I started thinking about my DH and my children. My parents and my sisters. I knew they would be so sad. But I felt such overwhelming love and security. Love like nothing I have ever even come close to feeling. Absolute, pure, light and completely unconditional love. Our word "love" doesn't even come close to what I felt. Imagine feeling completely safe. Completely loved. Completely secure. I didn't see loved ones that had past before me....I was them. There was no "me". There was only One.

I begged to stay. I tried to fight coming back. I remember hearing (not hearing like we hear, but knowing) that it wasn't my time. And I really wanted it to be my time.

The first thing the doctor asked me when I was fully conscious again was if I would be willing to write down what I had experienced. Apparently as I was being revived, I was talking. I guess I said some things that really caught their attention. One day I will write about it. I'm just not ready to share everything yet. It almost feels like if I share to much I'll lessen the experience.

This is not all there is. I can tell you that as easily as I can tell you the sun will set tonight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My own NDE profoundly changed me.

Contrary to what the pp posted, my experience was nothing at all like it should have been had I been relating it to past experience.

The presence (and that's not a great word, but it's the only one I can come up with) I encountered was the opposite of what I should have seen. I was raised in a traditional, fundie Southern Baptist Church. I should have seen "God" as a male figure all in white judging my life. I should have seen golden gates. Thrones. Saints..... All that Biblical imagery of God. That's how I was raised. That's all I knew at the time.

I did not. The presence was definitely female in nature. This is the hard part - it wasn't gender. And if I had to assign a gender, I would probably say male, but it was a female essence. Maternal for sure. I felt like I was returning to what I had always known. I remember distinctly thinking "How could I not have known this." and "I've always known you." and mostly "How did I forget about this?". I absolutely know that I was home. I was back where I started. And I really didn't want to leave. I started thinking about my DH and my children. My parents and my sisters. I knew they would be so sad. But I felt such overwhelming love and security. Love like nothing I have ever even come close to feeling. Absolute, pure, light and completely unconditional love. Our word "love" doesn't even come close to what I felt. Imagine feeling completely safe. Completely loved. Completely secure. I didn't see loved ones that had past before me....I was them. There was no "me". There was only One.

I begged to stay. I tried to fight coming back. I remember hearing (not hearing like we hear, but knowing) that it wasn't my time. And I really wanted it to be my time.

The first thing the doctor asked me when I was fully conscious again was if I would be willing to write down what I had experienced. Apparently as I was being revived, I was talking. I guess I said some things that really caught their attention. One day I will write about it. I'm just not ready to share everything yet. It almost feels like if I share to much I'll lessen the experience.

This is not all there is. I can tell you that as easily as I can tell you the sun will set tonight.

Thank you so much for sharing these aspects of your experience with us, PP. You just brought a little Light to my morning. Have you seen the NDE experience questionnaire over at nderf.org?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My own NDE profoundly changed me.

Contrary to what the pp posted, my experience was nothing at all like it should have been had I been relating it to past experience.

The presence (and that's not a great word, but it's the only one I can come up with) I encountered was the opposite of what I should have seen. I was raised in a traditional, fundie Southern Baptist Church. I should have seen "God" as a male figure all in white judging my life. I should have seen golden gates. Thrones. Saints..... All that Biblical imagery of God. That's how I was raised. That's all I knew at the time.

I did not. The presence was definitely female in nature. This is the hard part - it wasn't gender. And if I had to assign a gender, I would probably say male, but it was a female essence. Maternal for sure. I felt like I was returning to what I had always known. I remember distinctly thinking "How could I not have known this." and "I've always known you." and mostly "How did I forget about this?". I absolutely know that I was home. I was back where I started. And I really didn't want to leave. I started thinking about my DH and my children. My parents and my sisters. I knew they would be so sad. But I felt such overwhelming love and security. Love like nothing I have ever even come close to feeling. Absolute, pure, light and completely unconditional love. Our word "love" doesn't even come close to what I felt. Imagine feeling completely safe. Completely loved. Completely secure. I didn't see loved ones that had past before me....I was them. There was no "me". There was only One.

I begged to stay. I tried to fight coming back. I remember hearing (not hearing like we hear, but knowing) that it wasn't my time. And I really wanted it to be my time.

The first thing the doctor asked me when I was fully conscious again was if I would be willing to write down what I had experienced. Apparently as I was being revived, I was talking. I guess I said some things that really caught their attention. One day I will write about it. I'm just not ready to share everything yet. It almost feels like if I share to much I'll lessen the experience.

This is not all there is. I can tell you that as easily as I can tell you the sun will set tonight.

Thank you so much for sharing these aspects of your experience with us, PP. You just brought a little Light to my morning. Have you seen the NDE experience questionnaire over at nderf.org?

I have not. But I've often wondered if others had similar experiences. The only thing I've read are accounts of people seeing tunnels of light and having conversations with past relatives. I did not have those experiences.

[Anonymous]

You keep using that word prove. I do not think it means what you think it means.