Near Death Experience proves

[Anonymous]

If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not the PP with the NDE, but I think what the NDE-PP is saying is that just because YOU or scientists or atheists do not understand it, doesn't mean there isn't a Godly explanation either. And there is no reason to think that the Godly explanation doesn't have a basis in science. In most religions, God created all the heavens and earth but He may have used scientific principles to create them.

The Godly explanation is the explanation of believers. It now has sound basis since holy books have been saying there is an afterlife and a God that created the afterlife. Now that NDE's seem to validate the existence of some kind of afterlife, it may also be true that there exists a Creator. This kind of reasoning is simply based on critical thinking, not science, however.

You talk about the "godly explanation" as if there's agreement on what that is among believers -- and there is not. There are many different beliefs about god -- even among people who believe in the same (let's say, Christian) god.

Just because "holy books" say there is an afterlife doesn't mean there is one. that's not critical thinking at all -- you ought to know that - it's faith. NDE's don't validate anything, except the feelings people have during them.

If NDE's do not validate anything at all, how do you explain people across cultures and religions able to testify to conversations heard in faraway locations after they are dead? This shows nothing then? All participants, the surgeons, the doctors, the patients…all lying? Is this your critical analysis?

Of course it means SOMETHING -- but what? we don't know yet. It's not lying -- no one ever said that. It's an experience that hasn't been explained yet. Saying it's supernatural isn't an explanation, it's a pronouncement. If we stopped trying to figure things out, we'd still think the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth and lightening was a punishment from god. How about we say NDE's are weird and interesting and not jump to conclusions about them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

In some cultures, they think that epileptics are possessed by spirits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an unbeliever I don't get angry, I get sad. Sad that people can't appreciate the wonder of their existence without making up these fanciful stories.

I get sad that instead of appreciating the incredible science of existence they have to insist on something more, something childish like immortality when they wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it. It just seems so ungrateful.

I don't quite understand why you assume that people's beliefs somehow take away from their appreciation of today.

This topic came up in other threads, and I'd like to point out that such judgement of religion only shows how unfamiliar you are with what you deny. An open-minded person would attempt to educate him or herself before arguing non-existing points

You apparently are unfamiliar with the fact that many non-believers were once believers and have a personal experience of what it's like to believe -- and then to change your beliefs, based on new information.

People don't change. They should, but they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an unbeliever I don't get angry, I get sad. Sad that people can't appreciate the wonder of their existence without making up these fanciful stories.

I get sad that instead of appreciating the incredible science of existence they have to insist on something more, something childish like immortality when they wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it. It just seems so ungrateful.

I don't quite understand why you assume that people's beliefs somehow take away from their appreciation of today.

This topic came up in other threads, and I'd like to point out that such judgement of religion only shows how unfamiliar you are with what you deny. An open-minded person would attempt to educate him or herself before arguing non-existing points

You apparently are unfamiliar with the fact that many non-believers were once believers and have a personal experience of what it's like to believe -- and then to change your beliefs, based on new information.

People don't change. They should, but they don't.

thus sayeth ----?

Of course people change -- there are many examples of it, especially regarding religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Wow, surgeons! and they signed verified statements? was it repeatable and conducted according to scientific standards? Is there evidence presented in a scientific journal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Wow, surgeons! and they signed verified statements? was it repeatable and conducted according to scientific standards? Is there evidence presented in a scientific journal?

Repeatable and conducted according to scientific standards? The patient was dead and the surgeons left the operating room thinking he was dead and could not be revived. Down the hall or in other rooms they discussed the patient's case. What kind of scientific standard should they have followed in their conversation and how do you propose the deceased, the surgeons in their conversations, be able to repeat what happened? The only evidence that exists is the testimony of the surgeons themselves or family members who validate their conversations with others. No one is doing any research on this phenomena so all that exists is their testimony. Dr. Lloyd Rudy created one such testimony in his youtube video. Apparently many surgeons have experienced this. If you are interested in it, start investigating it rather than waiting for it to appear in New England Journal of Medicine or the Lancet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Wow, surgeons! and they signed verified statements? was it repeatable and conducted according to scientific standards? Is there evidence presented in a scientific journal?

Repeatable and conducted according to scientific standards? The patient was dead and the surgeons left the operating room thinking he was dead and could not be revived. Down the hall or in other rooms they discussed the patient's case. What kind of scientific standard should they have followed in their conversation and how do you propose the deceased, the surgeons in their conversations, be able to repeat what happened? The only evidence that exists is the testimony of the surgeons themselves or family members who validate their conversations with others. No one is doing any research on this phenomena so all that exists is their testimony. Dr. Lloyd Rudy created one such testimony in his youtube video. Apparently many surgeons have experienced this. If you are interested in it, start investigating it rather than waiting for it to appear in New England Journal of Medicine or the Lancet.

In other words, it can't be tested scientifically

[Anonymous]

Well why don't you propose how that would even be done, sonce you are the one that needs scientific proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well why don't you propose how that would even be done, sonce you are the one that needs scientific proof.

A scientist would not set out to prove that something beyond science was happening, they'd try to find out what was going on. Science can't prove an afterlife, or fairies or goblins, because there is no indication that those things happen in the natural world. People can make up things all the time - or draw their own conclusions (without testing) about things -- which is what they did before science was more developed -- and what some of us still do, when we can't figure something out (and, for instance, hope it means life-after-death.)

Science IS studying the brain more and more and I don't doubt that some day scientists will figure out what's happening with what we now call NDE's. Until then, I'm satisfied saying "I don't know."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Yes, both are the same.

A person dies and claims s/he heard a conversation in another room. A schizophrenic (alive) claims s/he hears voices and sees people from other dimensions. To both people, these "visions" (for lack of a better word) are real to them.

But there's no proof in the scientific world to support their claims.

same
same
same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Yes, both are the same.

A person dies and claims s/he heard a conversation in another room. A schizophrenic (alive) claims s/he hears voices and sees people from other dimensions. To both people, these "visions" (for lack of a better word) are real to them.

But there's no proof in the scientific world to support their claims.

same
same
same

The difference is that schizophrenics make this claim with no reasonable person to validate their claim. And medication seems to eliminate or greatly reduce this episodes. Here, with NDE'ers, surgeons and / or friends or family members who were participants in the conversation are validating the testimony of the patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Yes, both are the same.

still doesn't make it proof of an afterlifel -- it means it's something we don't understand yet

A person dies and claims s/he heard a conversation in another room. A schizophrenic (alive) claims s/he hears voices and sees people from other dimensions. To both people, these "visions" (for lack of a better word) are real to them.

But there's no proof in the scientific world to support their claims.

same
same
same

The difference is that schizophrenics make this claim with no reasonable person to validate their claim. And medication seems to eliminate or greatly reduce this episodes. Here, with NDE'ers, surgeons and / or friends or family members who were participants in the conversation are validating the testimony of the patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If many of you believe that NDEs experience the afterlife, you must also believe that schizophrenics can experience other dimensions.

makes sense

Friend's mom was schizophrenic, and she told my friend that even though she's on the meds, they only slow her down - but that the people she sees and voices she hears are still there.

just another topic to throw into the mix

This makes no sense. It would be an accurate comparison if the people she saw and heard turned out to be real, or something similar. NDE'ers testified hearing detailed conversations of people in faraway locations and this was verified, often by surgeons themselves. It does not compare to your example.

Yes, both are the same.

A person dies and claims s/he heard a conversation in another room. A schizophrenic (alive) claims s/he hears voices and sees people from other dimensions. To both people, these "visions" (for lack of a better word) are real to them.

But there's no proof in the scientific world to support their claims.

same
same
same

The difference is that schizophrenics make this claim with no reasonable person to validate their claim. And medication seems to eliminate or greatly reduce this episodes. Here, with NDE'ers, surgeons and / or friends or family members who were participants in the conversation are validating the testimony of the patients.

still doesn't make it proof of an afterlifel -- it means it's something we don't understand yet