Moving on when you were never really loved

[Anonymous]

Be string OP! Sending good vibes to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, I am 14:49 PP. I hear what you are saying and that this was a much deeper, longer relationship than the one I experienced, and the issue is different. it is very demoralizing to be disillusioned to the extent you are, and I'd like to direct you to some books I found helpful -
The Sociopath Next Door - martha stout
in sheeps clothing,and character disturbance by george simon (2 books)
the gaslight effect by robin stern

extensive lying and interpersonal manipulation and troublemaking are hallmarks of both sociopaths and narcissists. there are differences between them, but I will leave that to you to explore. You are far from alone though.

I've seen you recommend these books.

How is it helpful for her (and others) to come to view the father of their children, or someone they spent time with in a long-term relationship, as a sociopath or someone with a character disorder? Her children presumably have to spend time with this man, their father, alone. Now you want her to think of him as a sociopath??

OP, I had a relationship similar to this (no kids or marriage). Had some therapy and came to view this person more as a "Peter Pan." Someone who would say anything to get people to like him or please people in the short term, but with no follow through. Someone who never grew up. This isn't a sociopath. Yes, it's a defect of character, it's maddening, and it's impossible to live with. But it's not a complete lack of conscience or a lack of love for you. I think you were loved, just not the way you needed to be or should be. Find the love you need and deserve.

[Anonymous]

I've seen you recommend these books.

How is it helpful for her (and others) to come to view the father of their children, or someone they spent time with in a long-term relationship, as a sociopath or someone with a character disorder? Her children presumably have to spend time with this man, their father, alone. Now you want her to think of him as a sociopath??

OP, I had a relationship similar to this (no kids or marriage). Had some therapy and came to view this person more as a "Peter Pan." Someone who would say anything to get people to like him or please people in the short term, but with no follow through. Someone who never grew up. This isn't a sociopath. Yes, it's a defect of character, it's maddening, and it's impossible to live with. But it's not a complete lack of conscience or a lack of love for you. I think you were loved, just not the way you needed to be or should be. Find the love you need and deserve.

It is helpful for OP to view the father of her children as sociopath because that's what he is!!! Adding denial is what exacerbates and extends a situation like this. The problem with these kind of people is they lie to everyone- including the children. My STBX has borderline personality disorder and I never had to bring up the situation with my tween kids, they started approaching me asking about dad's inconsistencies. For their mental well being, I had to explain to the kids, that "It's dad, not you." My kids are in counseling because while I can divorce him, they cannot, they have to learn how to be in a relationship with their dad while protecting themselves and they can decide when a little bit older whether to limit, love from a distance, or break off the relationship.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate PP book recommendations because my ex has already shown that he will manipulate our kids too. Without going into too many details they came home with lies about me physically hurting their Dad. So the mind games have already started or continued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, I am 14:49 PP. I hear what you are saying and that this was a much deeper, longer relationship than the one I experienced, and the issue is different. it is very demoralizing to be disillusioned to the extent you are, and I'd like to direct you to some books I found helpful -
The Sociopath Next Door - martha stout
in sheeps clothing,and character disturbance by george simon (2 books)
the gaslight effect by robin stern

extensive lying and interpersonal manipulation and troublemaking are hallmarks of both sociopaths and narcissists. there are differences between them, but I will leave that to you to explore. You are far from alone though.

I've seen you recommend these books.

How is it helpful for her (and others) to come to view the father of their children, or someone they spent time with in a long-term relationship, as a sociopath or someone with a character disorder? Her children presumably have to spend time with this man, their father, alone. Now you want her to think of him as a sociopath??

OP, I had a relationship similar to this (no kids or marriage). Had some therapy and came to view this person more as a "Peter Pan." Someone who would say anything to get people to like him or please people in the short term, but with no follow through. Someone who never grew up. This isn't a sociopath. Yes, it's a defect of character, it's maddening, and it's impossible to live with. But it's not a complete lack of conscience or a lack of love for you. I think you were loved, just not the way you needed to be or should be. Find the love you need and deserve.

PP, what's helped me more than anything has been the diagnosis that set in motion my ability to fully understand my loved ones' pathologies. Especially when those pathologies can have dangerous consequences. It's the opposite of helpful for your well being or the well being of any children to avoid the harsh truth or to re-frame it in more palatable, but less realistic, terms. Obviously, you need to filter the truth for the children according to their ability to understand and deal with it, but it doesn't help you at all to hide from the truth. I've tried that, and it doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate PP book recommendations because my ex has already shown that he will manipulate our kids too. Without going into too many details they came home with lies about me physically hurting their Dad. So the mind games have already started or continued.

What a sickening thing to do, I'm so sorry. Best thing to do is document as much as possible, and get the emotional support you and your children need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I was in your shoes, I remember the feeling of wanting him to take it back and apologize. And he did... sadly it was still as hollow and empty as everything he had said to me previously. In the end there is no apology that will seem sincere enough to fix this hurt.

I too saw a therapist to deal with these feelings, it is not just getting over the anger at him. It was harder to get over the anger I had for myself in believing in him, in accepting less for myself for so long. This will take you sometime to heal but know that the further away you get from him, the better.

I definitely recommend reading some self-help books if you are not comfortable seeing a therapist. I can't tell you the peace it brought me to have my doctor say "He sounds like a Sociopath..." I had done a lot of emotional work on my own leading up to this but somehow this moment freed me, made it not about me the victim but him, someone incapable of love.

I wish you the best of luck OP, you deserve love and the more you believe that the stronger you will get!

I had the same experience in my 20's and therapist told me the same thing.
in my 40's now married 10 years and I look back on that relationship and thank God I was set free.
I even look at myself then as a different person, no guilt, no shame, just peace.

[Anonymous]

Realize too that he likely can't be his true self because he doesn't know who that is. Pathological lying is often a sign of a lack of true self-identity or self-worth. Combine that with a really dysfunctional childhood that tends to distort or destroy one's sense of trust, safety, control, and ability to connect and you have someone who tries to get these needs met in very unhealthy ways. The person you want him to be likely doesn't exist inside of him.

[Anonymous]

NP here. I have dated two sociopaths in my life. Both were short-lived relationships, thankfully, but they both scarred me in their own ways. Reading the Martha Stout book, a few years after the end of the second relationship, was very freeing for me. Sociopaths are not normal people, or even just people with emotional issues. They are fundamentally different from normal human beings and cannot be reformed. The only way to deal with a sociopath is to steer clear. Learning how to spot a sociopath is helpful because it will help you avoid them in the future. Obviously there was something about me -- a vulnerability that most people couldn't see, but they could -- that drew these two individuals to me and made them think I was an easy mark. And I was, because I didn't know that there were people who were this amoral.

You did nothing wrong, OP. The complicating factor here is that your STBX is still the father of your children and because of that you will have to deal with him for the foreseeable future. I do not envy you that. He will continue to try to fuck with you because that is what sociopaths do. I would personally find healing difficult in that type of situation. You need to show him that you are strong and just not engage with his bullshit. If he can't get a reaction from you, he will move on to someone else. Sociopaths fuck with people because they find it fun to stir shit and get people upset. If you don't give him the satisfaction, he will hopefully move on to the next unfortunate someone to get the reaction he is looking for. I would be most worried about your kids. They are not old enough to understand sociopathy or know how to protect themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP make sure you're not mourning the loss of who you thought he was (or wanted him to be) versus who he really was.

Excellent Advice!

I usually do this when I am breaking up w/someone and trying to get over them. Instead of remembering who they really were, I tend to miss my ideal version of who I wanted them to be which made missing them much harder.

Try to stick to what he really was to ensure true clarity in your situation!

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Thanks PPs.

You are right that I mourn someone whom probably wasn't real and never existed. I held too long to the belief that what he told me was true despite him then contradicting himself over and over again. The most painful part? I message to a friend that he wouldn't care if he got custody because if he didn't he just be a single guy again. Who the F&CK writes that about their kids?!? So now you can imagine all of the awful things he says about me. And of he doesn't love our kids whom he has a biological connection to, how could he have ever love me?

I'm lucky in that there is only contact about our kids, never exchanges in person. I am absolutely worried about them, though. I'm worried about him going postal or getting a girlfriend that he eventually beats too.

[Anonymous]

Better her than you. I have an ex like this too, OP. He has said some of the ugliest things to me and fucks with me anytime things are going poorly for him. PP is right about never engaging him, even when he lies on you. It has taken me two years to learn that skill. He still spazzes but its gone from monthly to every 4-6 months now.

[Anonymous]

Do some reading at Lovefraud OP. Look for posts by Cappuccino Queen and maybe read her blog. Work on separating out the issues you have we with not feeling loved from the ex. It is not something ex is capable of and it is likely triggering stuff from your past. Find a forensic psychologist, they will get the personality disordered. Get their recs on therapist for kids and keep them in therapy. Best to you.

[Anonymous]

One other thing, in my case I was mourning the relationship that never existed with my ex, or in my family of origin. The kind of rx you give your kids. You deserve that too and need to do a lot of work on yourself and your life, when you truly feel you have created the life you deserve and that is good for your Lufthansa whole different type of person will come into your life. A DV support group really helped my perspective.

[Anonymous]

Hey I am the book recc'ing PP and reading further, there is another book I think you will find very helpful in processing all this: Lundy Bancroft 'Why Does He Do That?'

For the kids, you might check out 'Children of the Self-Absorbed' by Nina Brown. What I loved about it was that it offered practical tactics for self-protection, even down to body language.