What really differentiates HYPSM from other elite schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in their right mind tries to differentiate between kids who attend an ivy or a top non-ivy. In south, so many kids decline ivies for similar schools in warm climates.

I am from the south and have seen a few kids turn down certain Ivies (Cornell, Penn) for Duke. I am not familiar with any other schools in the south competing successfully with the Ivies except when merit aid is involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of threads in this forum that tout HYPSM and denigrate other elite schools as “Ivy rejects,” much to the protest of parents and students at other elite schools. What’s going on here?

First, it’s not about smarts. Every school among the Top 25 universities and Top 15 liberal arts colleges have a very similar academic profile.

It is about two other variables:

1) dispositional intensity - HYPSM are looking for hyper-driven, highly competitive people who believe that worldly success/legacy is existential. Other elite schools, particularly those outside the NE, are looking for more balanced students that value Midwestern Southern or non-tech/SV Western values of hospitality, humility, and enjoyment of life.

2) regional cultural differences - HYPSM
draws heavily from the Northeast, elite private high schools and global strivers. Amongst these groups, prestige awareness and achievement stacking is essential for external validation. For other elite schools that draw heavily from the South, Midwest, or non-tech West, ambition is more subtle, relational and not existential.

When the Ivy-or-bust group deride your kid’s choice as an “Ivy reject,” what they’re really saying is that you’re soft, not hardcore, like them. They want to be a Supreme Court justice; you want to be a local trust and estate lawyer. They want to create Facebook; you want to work at Facebook and get a stock grant.

While many would be tempted to applaud the world-changing desire of HYPSM, I’m not always impressed. First, much of what’s counted as an “advancement” is just incremental improvements on existing human habits. Second, much of this worldly success is privatized (think hedge funds and their ilk). Third, in the worst cases, crazy ambition leads to the breaking of social and institutional norms where society shoulders the consequences. In contrast, hometown doctors, lawyers, educators, and small business leaders almost always benefit their communities.

Only you and your kid can decide what’s right for them. Not all smart kids belong at or will thrive at HPYSM. And, that’s a good thing. If everyone in society acted like the most ambitious, we’d kill each other for scraps.

“ First, it’s not about smarts. Every school among the Top 25 universities and Top 15 liberal arts colleges have a very similar academic profile.”

You nailed this part. Looking at the rest of your comment through the eyes of someone who attended the ‘M’ in HYPSM it doesn’t hold there at all.

As to the other schools, the eastern three do seem to attract an abundance of narcissists and strivers.

Again misuse of striver. Being a striver is a good thing not a bad thing. I think you mean some other word.

[Anonymous]

There is a difference in quality, what is taught, how it is taugt, and connections. Is the difference meaningful. Could be. May not be.

College is a launching pad. You can get a similar result from Towson as Harvard for a specific individual. But there may be more to take advantage of at Harvard. You may be challenged more. You may make more connections. All needed? No. But sure does not hurt. Also not everyone that went to Townson will come out the same as a top school.

The top schools give options that you cannot get anywhere else. Is there a difference among them? Sure but it gets smaller and smaller.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference in quality, what is taught, how it is taugt, and connections. Is the difference meaningful. Could be. May not be.

College is a launching pad. You can get a similar result from Towson as Harvard for a specific individual. But there may be more to take advantage of at Harvard. You may be challenged more. You may make more connections. All needed? No. But sure does not hurt. Also not everyone that went to Townson will come out the same as a top school.

The top schools give options that you cannot get anywhere else. Is there a difference among them? Sure but it gets smaller and smaller.

There is an enormous difference in resources available. Granted this is from AI, but a quick question indicates that the average need Grant from Towson is about $4,000 and the average need Grant from Harvard is about $70,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference in quality, what is taught, how it is taugt, and connections. Is the difference meaningful. Could be. May not be.

College is a launching pad. You can get a similar result from Towson as Harvard for a specific individual. But there may be more to take advantage of at Harvard. You may be challenged more. You may make more connections. All needed? No. But sure does not hurt. Also not everyone that went to Townson will come out the same as a top school.

The top schools give options that you cannot get anywhere else. Is there a difference among them? Sure but it gets smaller and smaller.

There is an enormous difference in resources available. Granted this is from AI, but a quick question indicates that the average need Grant from Towson is about $4,000 and the average need Grant from Harvard is about $70,000.

If you can get yourself into one of these top schools, you can get a lot of financial assistance for your education.

[Anonymous]

Interesting post, OP. My family has split ties to the Ivy East and Midwest. I decided to embrace the Midwest lifestyle but am not wholly at home there either. I am a bit too East Coast impatient.

I have seen Ivies have become much more competitive in the last 30 years. However, I do not believe that a lot who go to Ivies want to succeed/leave a legacy. I think a lot just "want the best" (different than being truly successful) and the highest chance of becoming/remaining wealthy. I've seen the phenomenon play out in the older generation that middle class Ivy grads stay middle class and rich ones stay rich. So to me it looks a bit more like an upper class perpetuation machine.

Until the Silicon Valley/Tech Bro phenomenon emerged, there was very little emphasis on founding businesses. Even now, that is more of a niche preference - more of a Bezos and Zuckerberg male engineer/business grad mindset. My understanding is that a huge amount of Ivy students go into consulting and after years of corporate work and seeing where my top MBA grad school peers went after consulting, I'm not particularly impressed with what that whole path contributes to society. To me the consulting industry exists because corporations no longer want to hire high-priced young employees long-term if they don't have to.

I personally think there's going to be a dilution of influence of the Ivies because they are so small and don't have plans to grow. Stanford has already managed to pull itself up into the pantheon. Penn is a lot more popular now that Philly is more gentrified. So a lot depends on regional economics outside the schools. In 20-40 years, there may be a few more Stanfords depending on where the economy goes. Or maybe "the best" will be trying to get into Chinese and Indian schools! The desire to stay or get rich will drive applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of threads in this forum that tout HYPSM and denigrate other elite schools as “Ivy rejects,” much to the protest of parents and students at other elite schools. What’s going on here?

First, it’s not about smarts. Every school among the Top 25 universities and Top 15 liberal arts colleges have a very similar academic profile.

It is about two other variables:

1) dispositional intensity - HYPSM are looking for hyper-driven, highly competitive people who believe that worldly success/legacy is existential. Other elite schools, particularly those outside the NE, are looking for more balanced students that value Midwestern Southern or non-tech/SV Western values of hospitality, humility, and enjoyment of life.

2) regional cultural differences - HYPSM
draws heavily from the Northeast, elite private high schools and global strivers. Amongst these groups, prestige awareness and achievement stacking is essential for external validation. For other elite schools that draw heavily from the South, Midwest, or non-tech West, ambition is more subtle, relational and not existential.

When the Ivy-or-bust group deride your kid’s choice as an “Ivy reject,” what they’re really saying is that you’re soft, not hardcore, like them. They want to be a Supreme Court justice; you want to be a local trust and estate lawyer. They want to create Facebook; you want to work at Facebook and get a stock grant.

While many would be tempted to applaud the world-changing desire of HYPSM, I’m not always impressed. First, much of what’s counted as an “advancement” is just incremental improvements on existing human habits. Second, much of this worldly success is privatized (think hedge funds and their ilk). Third, in the worst cases, crazy ambition leads to the breaking of social and institutional norms where society shoulders the consequences. In contrast, hometown doctors, lawyers, educators, and small business leaders almost always benefit their communities.

Only you and your kid can decide what’s right for them. Not all smart kids belong at or will thrive at HPYSM. And, that’s a good thing. If everyone in society acted like the most ambitious, we’d kill each other for scraps.

“ First, it’s not about smarts. Every school among the Top 25 universities and Top 15 liberal arts colleges have a very similar academic profile.”

You nailed this part. Looking at the rest of your comment through the eyes of someone who attended the ‘M’ in HYPSM it doesn’t hold there at all.

As to the other schools, the eastern three do seem to attract an abundance of narcissists and strivers.

Thank you so much for saying that-- my kid will start at 'M' this fall and reading the OP got me worried! My kid really does not match up with the picture the OP is painting.

'M' stands for MIT, right? My kid is more hyper collaborative than hyper competitive and was under the impression that MIT wants that kind of kid.

[Anonymous]

A good friend of mine went to Harvard, I went to a SLAC. A couple of things came up when we were in college:
1)in order to get into a class at Harvard with a famous prof, you had to apply for it. So, it was another level of competition
2) she was a “normal” smart girl but said it was intimidating because everyone else arrived so accomplished. Her roommate was a renowned violinist, her boyfriend was training to row in the Olympics. Everyone, it seemed had done or was doing something notable and it was intimidating.
3) comparing notes, it seemed like I had much more homework than her.
4) I was with her when we ran into a professor of mine, this was about 1-2 years post college. He remembered my name and my sister’s, who he had also taught. She was flabbergasted by this as she said it would never have happened with a Harvard professor.

Her son is now going to Harvard and she made him think long and hard about it. It certainly opened up many many doors for her, but tried to convey to him that’s it’s not necessarily the best college experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good friend of mine went to Harvard, I went to a SLAC. A couple of things came up when we were in college:
1)in order to get into a class at Harvard with a famous prof, you had to apply for it. So, it was another level of competition
2) she was a “normal” smart girl but said it was intimidating because everyone else arrived so accomplished. Her roommate was a renowned violinist, her boyfriend was training to row in the Olympics. Everyone, it seemed had done or was doing something notable and it was intimidating.
3) comparing notes, it seemed like I had much more homework than her.
4) I was with her when we ran into a professor of mine, this was about 1-2 years post college. He remembered my name and my sister’s, who he had also taught. She was flabbergasted by this as she said it would never have happened with a Harvard professor.

Her son is now going to Harvard and she made him think long and hard about it. It certainly opened up many many doors for her, but tried to convey to him that’s it’s not necessarily the best college experience.

I'm finding the opposite. I have one DC at a slac and one DC at hypsm. The slac is much more limited in terms of class availability. Yes, for some of the smaller, higher level seminars at hypsm, there is an application process. But once you figure that out you can take these classes. The slac DC has had a more difficult time accessing desirable classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Name

I think Leland Stanford is a pretty ugly name.

True story. I know a big donor class person who dual attended the flagship I got my grad degree at. Multiple buildings named after this family.

He named his kid Leland and is now sending the kid to Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Not much for T15, same student body. You’ll just be forced to listen to people with no firsthand knowledge refer to them as measly “lower ivies” or “ivy plus.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference in quality, what is taught, how it is taugt, and connections. Is the difference meaningful. Could be. May not be.

College is a launching pad. You can get a similar result from Towson as Harvard for a specific individual. But there may be more to take advantage of at Harvard. You may be challenged more. You may make more connections. All needed? No. But sure does not hurt. Also not everyone that went to Townson will come out the same as a top school.

The top schools give options that you cannot get anywhere else. Is there a difference among them? Sure but it gets smaller and smaller.

This thread has nothing to do with schools like Towson. False comparison.

[Anonymous]

My kid and I walked around Harvard and MIT but didn’t take the tour. It was more to sightsee because they weren’t getting in and that wasn’t even a conversation. Great Institutions, the brand name is undeniable. But there are lots of other places with old buildings, green lawns, libraries, labs, bookstores, cafes, college-town-type strips. HYPSM just doesn’t have room for everyone and those schools don’t hold a monopoly on opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of threads in this forum that tout HYPSM and denigrate other elite schools as “Ivy rejects,” much to the protest of parents and students at other elite schools. What’s going on here?

First, it’s not about smarts. Every school among the Top 25 universities and Top 15 liberal arts colleges have a very similar academic profile.

It is about two other variables:

1) dispositional intensity - HYPSM are looking for hyper-driven, highly competitive people who believe that worldly success/legacy is existential. Other elite schools, particularly those outside the NE, are looking for more balanced students that value Midwestern Southern or non-tech/SV Western values of hospitality, humility, and enjoyment of life.

2) regional cultural differences - HYPSM
draws heavily from the Northeast, elite private high schools and global strivers. Amongst these groups, prestige awareness and achievement stacking is essential for external validation. For other elite schools that draw heavily from the South, Midwest, or non-tech West, ambition is more subtle, relational and not existential.

When the Ivy-or-bust group deride your kid’s choice as an “Ivy reject,” what they’re really saying is that you’re soft, not hardcore, like them. They want to be a Supreme Court justice; you want to be a local trust and estate lawyer. They want to create Facebook; you want to work at Facebook and get a stock grant.

While many would be tempted to applaud the world-changing desire of HYPSM, I’m not always impressed. First, much of what’s counted as an “advancement” is just incremental improvements on existing human habits. Second, much of this worldly success is privatized (think hedge funds and their ilk). Third, in the worst cases, crazy ambition leads to the breaking of social and institutional norms where society shoulders the consequences. In contrast, hometown doctors, lawyers, educators, and small business leaders almost always benefit their communities.

Only you and your kid can decide what’s right for them. Not all smart kids belong at or will thrive at HPYSM. And, that’s a good thing. If everyone in society acted like the most ambitious, we’d kill each other for scraps.

Omg, give it a break. This was written by someone without direct knowledge of these schools. No, HYPSM are not full of hyper competitive people. I went to one of these schools and it was the opposite. Very collaborative. People do have internal drive yes, but it's not competitive at all with others. At this level, you don't have to be. Everyone is going to do well.

I do agree that they are looking for out of the box thinkers who want to make a difference in the world. There are some really interesting creative people at these schools. That's a good thing!

[Anonymous]

The size of their respective endowments places HYPSM into a class of their own.