I can’t stop being sad about this relationship dynamic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you talked with DH about downsizing? What he say? That sounds like the best option here because you are unlikely to be financially better off or better for your kids divorced as long as he is pulling his weight enough financially that there is not a net loss (or gambling away, addictions). But my guess is that you are not attracted to this less ambitious version of DH any more - so why move the kids, give up the nice house, and still be married to someone you aren't attracted to anymore? If that rings true for you, explore that more in therapy. What else attracts(ed) you to DH and can you rekindle that? Would you be ok leaving just because you aren't attracted to him anymore?

op - this is the crux of it.
it's actually even less about the money than part of attraction being that someone is somewhat ambitious. doesn't even have to be so financially driven - but just - driven to do something more.
when we met he had a million things he did and wanted to do and now it's like they're just... gone.

Same, OP. When we met, DH was a military officer. I already out-earned him, but he was ambitious and loved his job and between his pay, BAH etc, made a more than solid income. After four years of marriage he decided to retire from the military. Since he put in more than 20 years, he gets a full pension, but it's only about half of his pre-retirement earnings. I assumed he would get another full-time job, since he was only in his mid forties, and he said that was his plan, but... he never did. He had various plans: he was going to go back to school, he was going to start a company, and so on. Started some things, never finished them. He eventually picked up a little consulting work, but even with that, he makes a lot less than he would be making if he had stayed in the military, and much less than if he had a full-time civilian income combined with his military pension. What bugs me most is not that he is making less money, but that he doesn't seem to notice or care that I am still busting my butt at work. So my income pays for 3/4 of our joint expenses, and he sits around most days doing God knows what.

Yes, considering divorce. There are other issues as well. If he was working full time in a low-paid non-profit job and loved it, and was otherwise happy and engaged, I'd by fine earning most of the money. But a man who sits around with nothing much to do? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you talked with DH about downsizing? What he say? That sounds like the best option here because you are unlikely to be financially better off or better for your kids divorced as long as he is pulling his weight enough financially that there is not a net loss (or gambling away, addictions). But my guess is that you are not attracted to this less ambitious version of DH any more - so why move the kids, give up the nice house, and still be married to someone you aren't attracted to anymore? If that rings true for you, explore that more in therapy. What else attracts(ed) you to DH and can you rekindle that? Would you be ok leaving just because you aren't attracted to him anymore?

op - this is the crux of it.
it's actually even less about the money than part of attraction being that someone is somewhat ambitious. doesn't even have to be so financially driven - but just - driven to do something more.
when we met he had a million things he did and wanted to do and now it's like they're just... gone.

Same, OP. When we met, DH was a military officer. I already out-earned him, but he was ambitious and loved his job and between his pay, BAH etc, made a more than solid income. After four years of marriage he decided to retire from the military. Since he put in more than 20 years, he gets a full pension, but it's only about half of his pre-retirement earnings. I assumed he would get another full-time job, since he was only in his mid forties, and he said that was his plan, but... he never did. He had various plans: he was going to go back to school, he was going to start a company, and so on. Started some things, never finished them. He eventually picked up a little consulting work, but even with that, he makes a lot less than he would be making if he had stayed in the military, and much less than if he had a full-time civilian income combined with his military pension. What bugs me most is not that he is making less money, but that he doesn't seem to notice or care that I am still busting my butt at work. So my income pays for 3/4 of our joint expenses, and he sits around most days doing God knows what.

Yes, considering divorce. There are other issues as well. If he was working full time in a low-paid non-profit job and loved it, and was otherwise happy and engaged, I'd by fine earning most of the money. But a man who sits around with nothing much to do? No thanks.

THIS.
this is the mystifying thing.
Like, if any spouse watched the other spouse struggle to carry a heavy box from the car to the house and didn't go outside to help them, it would seem bizarre. But yet this daily equivalent is somehow ok.
then the other spouse feels resentful and wants to feel taken care of.

[Anonymous]

ok, OP, there's the attraction issue and there's a resentment issue.

I get that DH having a purpose bigger than himself would be attractive. (but this will be plenty hard to find in the dating pool, if you reenter it, so you may end up staying single)

You were originally attracted your DH's humor and emotional skills - so maybe those can be the path back to finding him attractive again. Is he a good dad, are there admirable traits there?

Your resentment, though, is a slippery slope to an affair, if that hasn't already happened ("But yet this daily equivalent is somehow ok. then the other spouse feels resentful and wants to feel taken care of.") Maybe your DH resents marrying you because he thinks about "what if" he married someone else and could live the lower cost of living/lower paced life elsewhere? I hear you that he seemed to have ambition before, and now seems to have changed - but there seems to have been a shift amongst many men in the direction of wanting to chuck the high cost/DMV life and move somewhere lower cost where they feel they will be at peace even if single. If you want to stay married, you need to work through that resentment and accept that there are aspects of your lifestyle you want more than DH does - and accept that fairly that means you have to put in more to get that lifestyle and not resent DH for it. Because no one likes being married to someone who resents them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you feel you could have married a rich man. If you could have, you would have. You didn’t for a reason—likely because no rich man wanted you. I have the same thoughts, but I say to myself, there is nothing you could have done differently. I worked with the cards I was dealt. Do I wish I was born beautiful and from upper class family that paved the way for marrying a rich surgeon (a couple of my friends have this), yes! But that was not my reality. I was born low caste (we are immigrants) and pretty but nothing remarkable looks. So I married a man who was honest and hard working but not high earning. I don’t regret it, but it does sting at times that I have to work so hard because he doesn’t make much.

What kind of a strange observation is this? "No rich man wanted you?" Was she turned away from the Rich Man's Dating Website? LOL.

She's lamenting her DH's lack of contribution and ambition. That is a fair thing for a spouse to complain about. But, at this point you either have to act (and downsize accordingly) or to accept it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to what it has always felt like to be the breadwinning male.

Speak for yourself.

[Anonymous]

If you are emotionally in tune with him, I would try to adjust on lifestyle. Move to a cheaper neighborhood or send the kids to public school. Finding someone who is emotionally compatible can be very hard. Don't take that for granted.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand, OP. Presumably if he is not the main breadwinner, he can be making your life easier by handling the childcare and home stuff. I personally think households with two parents with "big jobs" are not good for kids if the parents constantly work long hours and have to be on their phones when they are home. (I am not interested in the fake stories from unicorns who make 500k but only work 30 hours per week.)

I don't understand the draw to ambition in a superficial or financial sense. yes, I want a spouse who does something that means something to them and works hard to be their best. No, I don't want someone who thinks earning money or climbing the corporate ladder is a meaningful way to spend time. If you are making bank, OP, then isn't is great to have a spouse who can make your house a home? Who can handle emergencies and other things? You guys are partners. If you are both working all the time, what will happen? Many women would kill for a chance to be the breadwinner. So many of us can't make "big money" so we mommy track ourselves wherever we are so our husbands can reach their highest earning potential. There is stress and disappointment either way. But people forget that couples are a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you talked with DH about downsizing? What he say? That sounds like the best option here because you are unlikely to be financially better off or better for your kids divorced as long as he is pulling his weight enough financially that there is not a net loss (or gambling away, addictions). But my guess is that you are not attracted to this less ambitious version of DH any more - so why move the kids, give up the nice house, and still be married to someone you aren't attracted to anymore? If that rings true for you, explore that more in therapy. What else attracts(ed) you to DH and can you rekindle that? Would you be ok leaving just because you aren't attracted to him anymore?

op - this is the crux of it.
it's actually even less about the money than part of attraction being that someone is somewhat ambitious. doesn't even have to be so financially driven - but just - driven to do something more.
when we met he had a million things he did and wanted to do and now it's like they're just... gone.

Maybe he’s in a long depressive funk bc he’s realizing he’s not going to be the big dog he thought he was when you all met and he was young and ambitious? Middle age is the reckoning that certain doors really are closed to you now, and that can be so tough, especially if you’re not really happy with yourself/your life now. He probably feels ashamed that he’s not pulling his weight the way you both expected; there’s no way he doesn’t also know or feel this, right? Can you gateway a reigniting of passion for life with like…a new hobby for him? Something to make him feel more alive. Having more agency in *something* might lead to more agency and responsibility wrt your household, or more clear-eyed awareness of all the things to be happy and grateful about, more spark in general? Or do you feel he’s keeping everything at a low-level dumb stasis as a way of supporting your remarkable career?

Also on a more practical note, if you divorce, will you have to end up paying spousal support or something since you earn so much more? And then you’ll be a single parent x number of days a week with even less help? Have you considered the logistics of whether this is actually better?

[Anonymous]

^also I’m sorry about the pressure of being the breadwinner. It’s so tough and I admire how much you’re holding it together.

[Anonymous]

Yawn. This is why I never actively worked. I pick a DH who would for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When dh and i met, we both had career plans and he was starting an mba.
After marriage, dh did not get anywhere near the traction he wanted work wise. I made tracks and worked my way pretty far up the corporate ladder and now make about 4x his salary.
The problem is I’m exhausted and so tired of the pressure. Dh’s ambition has totally waned so if we want to downsize we’ll need to move and pull the kids out of school etc etc.
I’m sure I’ll get flamed but I can’t help feeling sad that I’ll never get to wake up in the morning and know that someone else is the one with work on their plate that day; that someone else is being ambitious and moving things along and that I don’t need to worry. It makes me SO sad and to the point where I am depressed about it.
I am in therapy but I cannot shake this feeling and I’m not sure if it’s possible. Do I need to get divorced? Not sure what to do.

Time to woman up and stop complaining. You she a job and you’re the breadwinner so time to just grit your teeth and bring home the bacon. That’s what men have had to do so if you’re a string independent woman let’s get to it. Not everyone can be lucky enough to be SAHMs and only worry about what they pack their kids for lunch and PTA meetings.

Welcome to being an average husband

[Anonymous]

OP - i think what gets me is not that i expect him to also be on his phone the whole time with both of us in high flying jobs, but my success has come at a cost of putting in extra time and effort eg after the kids go to bed. He NEVER ever ever ever does that. I'd settle for sometimes, or if he occasionally went to network or meet a new person or SOMETHING. I dont think he knows what doors are closed to him bc he has stopped trying to open them.

That makes me depressed because it feels like the ambition is so massively on my shoulders to have. No one wants to have to have it be so uneven. He's a good dad but it's not like he's massively ambitious about being a good dad either.

I just feel like - be driven about something. I have psyched myself up to be driven for so many years and now i'm like physically falling apart (literally) and i just want to be able to pass a little bit of the pressure off. So we have the resentment piece and the attraction piece.

and yes i'm sure he regrets marrying me maybe. and would have preferred someone who maybe shared in what turned out to be his ultimate level of ambition which is low. Although not sure what they would have done for money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you feel you could have married a rich man. If you could have, you would have. You didn’t for a reason—likely because no rich man wanted you. I have the same thoughts, but I say to myself, there is nothing you could have done differently. I worked with the cards I was dealt. Do I wish I was born beautiful and from upper class family that paved the way for marrying a rich surgeon (a couple of my friends have this), yes! But that was not my reality. I was born low caste (we are immigrants) and pretty but nothing remarkable looks. So I married a man who was honest and hard working but not high earning. I don’t regret it, but it does sting at times that I have to work so hard because he doesn’t make much.

Grow up. Do you know how you could have guaranteed a rich surgeon lifestyle for yourself? By becoming a rich surgeon yourself! Women are able to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you talked with DH about downsizing? What he say? That sounds like the best option here because you are unlikely to be financially better off or better for your kids divorced as long as he is pulling his weight enough financially that there is not a net loss (or gambling away, addictions). But my guess is that you are not attracted to this less ambitious version of DH any more - so why move the kids, give up the nice house, and still be married to someone you aren't attracted to anymore? If that rings true for you, explore that more in therapy. What else attracts(ed) you to DH and can you rekindle that? Would you be ok leaving just because you aren't attracted to him anymore?

op - this is the crux of it.
it's actually even less about the money than part of attraction being that someone is somewhat ambitious. doesn't even have to be so financially driven - but just - driven to do something more.
when we met he had a million things he did and wanted to do and now it's like they're just... gone.

Same, OP. When we met, DH was a military officer. I already out-earned him, but he was ambitious and loved his job and between his pay, BAH etc, made a more than solid income. After four years of marriage he decided to retire from the military. Since he put in more than 20 years, he gets a full pension, but it's only about half of his pre-retirement earnings. I assumed he would get another full-time job, since he was only in his mid forties, and he said that was his plan, but... he never did. He had various plans: he was going to go back to school, he was going to start a company, and so on. Started some things, never finished them. He eventually picked up a little consulting work, but even with that, he makes a lot less than he would be making if he had stayed in the military, and much less than if he had a full-time civilian income combined with his military pension. What bugs me most is not that he is making less money, but that he doesn't seem to notice or care that I am still busting my butt at work. So my income pays for 3/4 of our joint expenses, and he sits around most days doing God knows what.

Yes, considering divorce. There are other issues as well. If he was working full time in a low-paid non-profit job and loved it, and was otherwise happy and engaged, I'd by fine earning most of the money. But a man who sits around with nothing much to do? No thanks.

THIS.
this is the mystifying thing.
Like, if any spouse watched the other spouse struggle to carry a heavy box from the car to the house and didn't go outside to help them, it would seem bizarre. But yet this daily equivalent is somehow ok.
then the other spouse feels resentful and wants to feel taken care of.

And now do you strongly sympathize with every guy with SAHM who never gets a job even after all her child-raising days are over?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you talked with DH about downsizing? What he say? That sounds like the best option here because you are unlikely to be financially better off or better for your kids divorced as long as he is pulling his weight enough financially that there is not a net loss (or gambling away, addictions). But my guess is that you are not attracted to this less ambitious version of DH any more - so why move the kids, give up the nice house, and still be married to someone you aren't attracted to anymore? If that rings true for you, explore that more in therapy. What else attracts(ed) you to DH and can you rekindle that? Would you be ok leaving just because you aren't attracted to him anymore?

op - this is the crux of it.
it's actually even less about the money than part of attraction being that someone is somewhat ambitious. doesn't even have to be so financially driven - but just - driven to do something more.
when we met he had a million things he did and wanted to do and now it's like they're just... gone.

Same, OP. When we met, DH was a military officer. I already out-earned him, but he was ambitious and loved his job and between his pay, BAH etc, made a more than solid income. After four years of marriage he decided to retire from the military. Since he put in more than 20 years, he gets a full pension, but it's only about half of his pre-retirement earnings. I assumed he would get another full-time job, since he was only in his mid forties, and he said that was his plan, but... he never did. He had various plans: he was going to go back to school, he was going to start a company, and so on. Started some things, never finished them. He eventually picked up a little consulting work, but even with that, he makes a lot less than he would be making if he had stayed in the military, and much less than if he had a full-time civilian income combined with his military pension. What bugs me most is not that he is making less money, but that he doesn't seem to notice or care that I am still busting my butt at work. So my income pays for 3/4 of our joint expenses, and he sits around most days doing God knows what.

Yes, considering divorce. There are other issues as well. If he was working full time in a low-paid non-profit job and loved it, and was otherwise happy and engaged, I'd by fine earning most of the money. But a man who sits around with nothing much to do? No thanks.

THIS.
this is the mystifying thing.
Like, if any spouse watched the other spouse struggle to carry a heavy box from the car to the house and didn't go outside to help them, it would seem bizarre. But yet this daily equivalent is somehow ok.
then the other spouse feels resentful and wants to feel taken care of.

And now do you strongly sympathize with every guy with SAHM who never gets a job even after all her child-raising days are over?

well yes and no.
i sympathize with any person who communicated well with their spouse before getting married as to expectations for earning and ambition and working and then had the person renege on what was discussed, after kids are born.