I can’t stop being sad about this relationship dynamic

[Anonymous]

I don’t know what Op is talking about. I’m just not wired that way. Carry on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you feel you could have married a rich man. If you could have, you would have. You didn’t for a reason—likely because no rich man wanted you. I have the same thoughts, but I say to myself, there is nothing you could have done differently. I worked with the cards I was dealt. Do I wish I was born beautiful and from upper class family that paved the way for marrying a rich surgeon (a couple of my friends have this), yes! But that was not my reality. I was born low caste (we are immigrants) and pretty but nothing remarkable looks. So I married a man who was honest and hard working but not high earning. I don’t regret it, but it does sting at times that I have to work so hard because he doesn’t make much.

These posts also read like we are in 1950 to me.

Why don't women say, "I sometimes regret that I did not become a surgeon."

Why do we still fantasize about some man giving us what we want in life. If it so child-like.

Why is that the fantasy? Because it’s easier, often more enjoyable and relaxing! Surgeons and other high earners have to work long hours and are under high stress all the time. Just spending the money is easy and so much more fun. And it can be just as fulfilling if you’re doing it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you feel you could have married a rich man. If you could have, you would have. You didn’t for a reason—likely because no rich man wanted you. I have the same thoughts, but I say to myself, there is nothing you could have done differently. I worked with the cards I was dealt. Do I wish I was born beautiful and from upper class family that paved the way for marrying a rich surgeon (a couple of my friends have this), yes! But that was not my reality. I was born low caste (we are immigrants) and pretty but nothing remarkable looks. So I married a man who was honest and hard working but not high earning. I don’t regret it, but it does sting at times that I have to work so hard because he doesn’t make much.

These posts also read like we are in 1950 to me.

Why don't women say, "I sometimes regret that I did not become a surgeon."

Why do we still fantasize about some man giving us what we want in life. If it so child-like.

Why is that the fantasy? Because it’s easier, often more enjoyable and relaxing! Surgeons and other high earners have to work long hours and are under high stress all the time. Just spending the money is easy and so much more fun. And it can be just as fulfilling if you’re doing it right.

I’m married to a surgeon, and I don’t feel this way.
I know this sounds stupid, but I don’t really know how to spend the money. I know that he envisions this perfect house and clothes and parties, but I’m a nerdy sci-fi lover, and I don’t know how to make those things happen. I’m also a physician, and I’m not really interested in dedicating my life to shopping and interior decorating.
We have had to move far away from home in order to pursue his career, so I have no friends or family around. It also means that the people we invite to said parties are near strangers and kind of judgmental.
And it’s hard to share parenting derisions with someone who doesn’t really know your kids but doesn’t want to admit it.

I love my husband. He is brilliant and funny and overall a wonderful man. But I sometimes wish I had married someone else. Maybe OP and I should switch places

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to what it has always felt like to be the breadwinning male.

Unf the post omits any and all information on how the kids and home are managed

All we know is the MBA former, all talk ambitious spouse never applied themselves in the competitive work force.

I noticed that too.
Everyone I know, male and female, tends to minimize the unpaid labor of their lower earning spouse (until they get divorced and have the kids 50% of the time).

[Anonymous]

I feel you OP. My DH just got fired and I’m terrified for our future because this is the second time he’s been fired in five years. I envy my friends who don’t have to work or obsess over their careers like I do. I am trying to stop blaming myself for not finding a better match (I was not allowed to date before marriage for religious/cultural reasons and had no idea I need to emphasize earnings in a spouse) but it’s tough.

[Anonymous]

It’s 10:30 and I just woke up, it is really nice lol. Don’t believe people who tell you money doesn’t matter, it’s an utter lie.

Of course, having said that, I’m sure I’ll be told that my husband is due to leave me soon but I really don’t think so. We’re coming up on 20 years of marriage, still very happy together. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s 10:30 and I just woke up, it is really nice lol. Don’t believe people who tell you money doesn’t matter, it’s an utter lie.

Of course, having said that, I’m sure I’ll be told that my husband is due to leave me soon but I really don’t think so. We’re coming up on 20 years of marriage, still very happy together. Shrug.

You’re not a nice person. I hope that moment of gloating was enjoyable because it sounds you need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s 10:30 and I just woke up, it is really nice lol. Don’t believe people who tell you money doesn’t matter, it’s an utter lie.

Of course, having said that, I’m sure I’ll be told that my husband is due to leave me soon but I really don’t think so. We’re coming up on 20 years of marriage, still very happy together. Shrug.

You’re not a nice person. I hope that moment of gloating was enjoyable because it sounds you need it.

I’m validating the op. What she wants is possible and exists. And it is really nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s 10:30 and I just woke up, it is really nice lol. Don’t believe people who tell you money doesn’t matter, it’s an utter lie.

Of course, having said that, I’m sure I’ll be told that my husband is due to leave me soon but I really don’t think so. We’re coming up on 20 years of marriage, still very happy together. Shrug.

You’re not a nice person. I hope that moment of gloating was enjoyable because it sounds you need it.

I’m validating the op. What she wants is possible and exists. And it is really nice.

Well it seems all those years at home have done a number on your critical thinking skills. It is highly unlikely that if the OP divorces she will find a high earning man willing to let her stay at home.

[Anonymous]

I married someone like that. He was above me career-wise when we started dating (I was still in college at the time). 10 years later, at age 31, I had had enough. Not only had he not made any progress, he had actually regressed. Luckily we didn't have kids and I divorced him. I'm really sorry that you're stuck in this position with kids. I just wanted you to know that I know how you feel, and any people who make nasty comments (I haven't read the thread yet but I'm sure there will be some) don't get it. I hope you find peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you talked with DH about downsizing? What he say? That sounds like the best option here because you are unlikely to be financially better off or better for your kids divorced as long as he is pulling his weight enough financially that there is not a net loss (or gambling away, addictions). But my guess is that you are not attracted to this less ambitious version of DH any more - so why move the kids, give up the nice house, and still be married to someone you aren't attracted to anymore? If that rings true for you, explore that more in therapy. What else attracts(ed) you to DH and can you rekindle that? Would you be ok leaving just because you aren't attracted to him anymore?

op - this is the crux of it.
it's actually even less about the money than part of attraction being that someone is somewhat ambitious. doesn't even have to be so financially driven - but just - driven to do something more.
when we met he had a million things he did and wanted to do and now it's like they're just... gone.

Same, OP. When we met, DH was a military officer. I already out-earned him, but he was ambitious and loved his job and between his pay, BAH etc, made a more than solid income. After four years of marriage he decided to retire from the military. Since he put in more than 20 years, he gets a full pension, but it's only about half of his pre-retirement earnings. I assumed he would get another full-time job, since he was only in his mid forties, and he said that was his plan, but... he never did. He had various plans: he was going to go back to school, he was going to start a company, and so on. Started some things, never finished them. He eventually picked up a little consulting work, but even with that, he makes a lot less than he would be making if he had stayed in the military, and much less than if he had a full-time civilian income combined with his military pension. What bugs me most is not that he is making less money, but that he doesn't seem to notice or care that I am still busting my butt at work. So my income pays for 3/4 of our joint expenses, and he sits around most days doing God knows what.

Yes, considering divorce. There are other issues as well. If he was working full time in a low-paid non-profit job and loved it, and was otherwise happy and engaged, I'd by fine earning most of the money. But a man who sits around with nothing much to do? No thanks.

THIS.
this is the mystifying thing.
Like, if any spouse watched the other spouse struggle to carry a heavy box from the car to the house and didn't go outside to help them, it would seem bizarre. But yet this daily equivalent is somehow ok.
then the other spouse feels resentful and wants to feel taken care of.

And now do you strongly sympathize with every guy with SAHM who never gets a job even after all her child-raising days are over?

I don't understand how anyone can seriously think these are equivalent. Women bear the entire physical burden of having the kids and 98% of the time are taking care of more child and home-related tasks even after the kids are in school. Plus after raising the kids all those years your career often takes a major hit... that your family has signficantly benefitted from through all of your work in the home. This is not at all the same as a man randomly stepping back from work.

+1. The reality is that men do not do as much domestic labor and they are not wired to do caretaking as competently as women. Even if they try, the average man is not and cannot competently fill the role of the at-home spouse. So when a man works less, that time tends to be taken up with idle activities at best, and expensive hobbies at worst.

I'm from the generation that was raised by starry-eyed feminists to believe that women can have everything and that if you out earn your husband, you're a boss babe with an enviable life. This is not what I'm teaching my teen daughter. There are very real gender dynamics that you ignore at your own peril. I was/am an ambitious high earner and my husband has always been as well. When I sought a totally egalitarian marriage in which we did about the same at home and earn about the same at work, I wasnt as happy and my marriage wasn't as strong as when I let that go. Since letting it go, our income has skyrocketed. We both do a lot more work now. I do more housework and parenting and he works his a$$ off at work. In seeking to make things even, I was holding us down.

OP, tell your husband. I doubt he likes this dynamic either. I bet he's able to really go hard at work but he doesn't have the impetus. He probably knows this is an unnatural arrangement, from the standpoint of thousands of years of evolution.

Nah, you just married a loser.

My husband and I are equal in all respects except that I carried our kids. (They were twins and formula-fed so yes, he even fed them as much as I did).

Since we're true partners who can do everything the other can, our income has skyrocketed because we're both able to support each other. Also, bonus, our kids think of us as equal parents versus a parent and an ATM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women pay alimony too, be careful op.

Yep, I did. Fun times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women pay alimony too, be careful op.

Op - yes I know.

There’s really no answer. And also I did marry someone who I thought would step up and had the plans and talked the talk. But then just kind of stopped trying. That’s what’s so frustrating - the total lack of hustle

But you did not post, "I would we would both work equally hard. " It said, "I wish I could lie in bed while someone else has the work/worry."

That is different. Adult life is hard. We are responsible for ourselves.

You and your husband are not the same type of people. Ambition does not automatically come with his genital equipment.

I would have more sympathy for you if your lament was not so tied to out-of-date gender norms.

She said THAT DAY. Not EVERY DAY. Reading is your friend. You sound bitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know what Op is talking about. I’m just not wired that way. Carry on!

Are you wired to have a man take care of you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s 10:30 and I just woke up, it is really nice lol. Don’t believe people who tell you money doesn’t matter, it’s an utter lie.

Of course, having said that, I’m sure I’ll be told that my husband is due to leave me soon but I really don’t think so. We’re coming up on 20 years of marriage, still very happy together. Shrug.

do you not need to get up with your kids?