How to find a man who let me shine

[Anonymous]

OP I hate to sound like the men on this board but are you also reasonably attractive? I know overachieving women who look amazing and overachieving women who don’t, and since both types of overachieving women are available, suitable men gravitate toward the more attractive.

So, as a successful woman with a great marriage, here’s my advice.

1. Find someone whose parents both had great careers. Men who saw their fathers and mothers as equals expect to live that way. Not saying others don’t, but there is a steeper learning curve.
2. Don’t be in the same fields. You can’t both be CFOs because then tax season is miserable for both of you. You can’t both be Hill staff because then recess etc. happens at the same time. You have to find someone in a complimentary field not a competing field.
3. Have healthy boundaries with work. No one, man or woman, wants to be second place all day every day. No one wants their kids raised not knowing their parent. This isn’t about your partner being “jealous” this is about being respectful of your partner. If you’re as good at your job as you think you are, they want you bad enough to know you will respond to all email after dinner (or whatever).
4. Be interesting outside your job. This is so hard because jobs take up SO much time, but a good marriage takes up even more. Remember that the day you retire you’re just someone who used to work at McKinsey, but you’re someone’s wife/mother until you die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I hate to sound like the men on this board but are you also reasonably attractive? I know overachieving women who look amazing and overachieving women who don’t, and since both types of overachieving women are available, suitable men gravitate toward the more attractive.

So, as a successful woman with a great marriage, here’s my advice.

1. Find someone whose parents both had great careers. Men who saw their fathers and mothers as equals expect to live that way. Not saying others don’t, but there is a steeper learning curve.
2. Don’t be in the same fields. You can’t both be CFOs because then tax season is miserable for both of you. You can’t both be Hill staff because then recess etc. happens at the same time. You have to find someone in a complimentary field not a competing field.
3. Have healthy boundaries with work. No one, man or woman, wants to be second place all day every day. No one wants their kids raised not knowing their parent. This isn’t about your partner being “jealous” this is about being respectful of your partner. If you’re as good at your job as you think you are, they want you bad enough to know you will respond to all email after dinner (or whatever).
4. Be interesting outside your job. This is so hard because jobs take up SO much time, but a good marriage takes up even more. Remember that the day you retire you’re just someone who used to work at McKinsey, but you’re someone’s wife/mother until you die.

OP here. Thanks for your perspective. I’m objectively physically attractive. Being “pretty” sometimes adds further challenges because men on dates are just lying and saying they want a career woman so they can sleep with me. I think the point about selecting men who’ve had a career mom is a good one. I’m black so that is something harder to find but not impossible.

[Anonymous]

how much do you make?

i think the advice above to find someone who is comfortable to stay in his decent job in thee area forever.

i think, as a rule, most men would not be happy to be making way less than their wives. i am sure there are exceptions.

[Anonymous]

In my case, I married someone that is motivated and owns his own biz — but is more Type B. He also didn’t marry (me) until he was 40 and really wanted a family. He works entirely from home. We are not in the same field, he isn’t even in corporate America.

We have varied over the years in who is the breadwinner. We see both of our success as “our” success. He sold one biz and started another so I’m the sole breadwinner while he builds this new biz. And he 100% handles kid stuff when he needs to because I have work travel.

We also have enough money to outsource a lot so nobody is pissed off about who scrubs the toilets more.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised an overachiever would have 3 obvious grammatical and punctuation errors in their opening post and subject line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This is not BS. I actually ended up divorced because of this issue. While dating I find that men seem excited/interested in me being an overachiever in the beginning, but down the road it becomes an issue. It is as if the idea of a career woman is great to them, but the reality is something they can’t handle. Examples include:

-resenting that I’m unwilling to relocate given this area is the epicenter of good jobs for me
-expecting prompt texts and drawn out conversation while I’m working
-dismissing my professional expertise (it’s in something that everyone interacts with like say being a doctor)
-advising me to not go for better opportunities
-getting annoyed that I am thoughtful and therefore have my own independent opinions

As someone who has the kind of marriage you want, I think you hit the nail on the head — he needs to have an understanding of the reality of the situation. You need someone fairly independent who wants the kinds of benefits you can deliver. Someone who sees marriage in terms of mutual respect.

I was very upfront and no BS about who I was in the first few dates, knowing that if it scared anyone away they weren’t the right fit. I’m very feminine in other ways and realized I had been attracting guys who wanted something more traditional. The career issue came up very early on with my now husband, and we discussed at length — I asked things like, how do you know that’s what you want? Did your mom work and how did she and your dad approach it? A guy who has thought about this stuff will have solid, thoughtful answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This is not BS. I actually ended up divorced because of this issue. While dating I find that men seem excited/interested in me being an overachiever in the beginning, but down the road it becomes an issue. It is as if the idea of a career woman is great to them, but the reality is something they can’t handle. Examples include:

-resenting that I’m unwilling to relocate given this area is the epicenter of good jobs for me
-expecting prompt texts and drawn out conversation while I’m working
-dismissing my professional expertise (it’s in something that everyone interacts with like say being a doctor)
-advising me to not go for better opportunities
-getting annoyed that I am thoughtful and therefore have my own independent opinions

You are an underachiever at selecting right men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The older I get the more I value a man who can fix things and who can do work around the house and in the yard.

Many many 1%ers can't change out a toilet.

They can hire a handyman.

Seriously new toilet is just a call away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This is not BS. I actually ended up divorced because of this issue. While dating I find that men seem excited/interested in me being an overachiever in the beginning, but down the road it becomes an issue. It is as if the idea of a career woman is great to them, but the reality is something they can’t handle. Examples include:

-resenting that I’m unwilling to relocate given this area is the epicenter of good jobs for me
-expecting prompt texts and drawn out conversation while I’m working
-dismissing my professional expertise (it’s in something that everyone interacts with like say being a doctor)
-advising me to not go for better opportunities
-getting annoyed that I am thoughtful and therefore have my own independent opinions

I had similar experiences while dating. I thought that dating someone less ambitious in his career would mean that they would have more room to be supportive of mine, but I actually found the opposite was true.

My advice would be to find someone as accomplished as you are who understands how demanding that can be on your personal life, and then to remain childfree.

[Anonymous]

You sound exhausting.

[Anonymous]

-resenting that I’m unwilling to relocate given this area is the epicenter of good jobs for me
This is a good location for career women, bad for the male/female ratio in dating.
-expecting prompt texts and drawn out conversation while I’m working
Tell him you work in a proprietary/cleared space and can only be reached by landline for emergencies. No calls between 8-5 M-F is normal here. Keep your cell in your car and give hi your receptionist's # and advise him/her to only transfer if it is urgent. Otherwise return the texts exactly at 5:05pm daily. Tell him, that is the best you'll do except in emergency.
-dismissing my professional expertise (it’s in something that everyone interacts with like say being a doctor)
This is really odd. It may just be your ex. Unless he is in the same profession, ignore this
-advising me to not go for better opportunities
I actually agree with this. Job hopping too much isn't good and you won't establish yourself or cultivate long-term interactive skills. Wait two years before resigning and always give 2 weeks.
-getting annoyed that I am thoughtful and therefore have my own independent opinions
Eyeroll right back..

Overall, none of these sound like cheating, rape, assault, gaslighting, abandonment, neglect, stringing you along, gold-digging, etc. I'd keep him and try to work it out and tolerate people. You seem a little naive and yes, your writing doesn't reflect 1%er in English. He may overachieve in something you can't do.

[Anonymous]

I think you’re focused on the wrong things. You self-identified here firstly as a successful overachiever: Is there more to you than that? Do you know who you are as a woman with emotional, intellectual, specifically, and social needs? Think about those things in yourself and what you want from a partner outside of how they can accommodate your career and expertise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, weighing on this as a someone happily married for 10 years, with a kid.

There are people who are going to tell you to find someone who is equally as high achieving as you, so that they feel confident in themselves. But I don't think this works. High achievers are competitive. You are probably competitive. If you marry someone who is also a high achiever, there will be an element of competition to you relationship. And the worst part will be when you have kids, because when two high achieving parents have kids, it is the very rare couple where the man's career takes the back seat when the kids are small. Either both parents or the mom does it, and mostly it's the mom. I hate it, but it's true. And part of the problem is that mom is usually more willing to do it, because women tend to be more immediately changed by parenthood and it makes them more willing to make compromises for their children, and men take longer to figure this out, and some never do. My DH figured it around year 2. But by then I'd already made a lot of sacrifices and he'd already dug in on a lot of stuff. We got there, but not immediately.

What saves us is that he is not really a high achiever. He's very smart and he is successful at his job, but his job is in government service and has regular hours and everyone takes vacations and parental leaves and it's just not a hard charging place. I am in private industry, in a very competitive field, and much more ambitious than he is. He's Mr. Slow and Steady Wins the Race. It's a perfect match for me and has served our relationship very well. He occasionally gets jealous of certain accomplishments or opportunities I have, but it passes and he remembers that's just not who he is. But his steadiness means I have a lot more room to maneuver in my career, taking more risks and being bolder in job choices. It also means I was able to go PT for a while when we had a child, but then make some interesting choices when I went back FT that have served me very well. Were it not for his steady job security and income, but also regular hours and lack of stress, I could never have done any of that.

So my advice is to find yourself a smart but not ambitious mid-level government worker. Someone who is great in their subject area but has no interest in running anything. He'll still be smart and interesting enough to talk to, but his career ambitions (such as they are) are unlikely to conflict with yours. Look for someone who is just happy where they are at.

I think this is spot on. I’m a woman whose in gov and I’m smart and love my job, but not interested in supervising or managing anything/one. I am
Attracted to ambitious men and can be happy circling their orbit while doing my thing. It may be harder to find in a man, but I’d start by looking at GS-12/13 historians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound exhausting.

This. Op your problem is you. You need to get over yourself. Nobody likes an arrogant, know it all asshole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a successful overachiever. I have been this way my whole life. It’s caused problems in my romantic relationships, because many men have been jealous or felt inadequate as a result. I do not look down on men who have less money or career accolades than me. I like to have a balanced life with work and fun, and would like to have a partner who’s the same. I also don’t want to have to “play dumb” to keep a man. Are my expectations realistic? If so, how do I begin vetting for and attracting men who have space for a woman like me?

Notice only UVa students/parents think rapes, deaths, violence, bigotry, embezzlement, abuse, bias, etc is "jealousy" by UVa ALUMNI who "didn't get in", but actual Ivy leaguers don't say that? I too am in the top 1% of many things and don't for a second think my dates are jealous, although I have faced retaliation from last-to-marry coworkers who failed for 2 years at what I've won awards for. Why do you go for insecure, petty, jerks? I have dated and married less accomplished, but I feel I married up in character, warmth, attachment, etc. I don't think anyone has played "dumb" since 1982. What a condescending thought! Yes, your expectations are realistic. How?--Stop "vetting" like you are looking for a VP, and start caring and loving like a spouse.

Wait a minute, what?