US Supreme Court Rules Against Affirmative Action in College Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is quite eye-opening to read some of these posts- so many people showing how racist they are, even while they claim that they are not. Their convoluted way of thinking seems so normal to them, that they truly have no idea how easily everyone else can see how superior they feel their own race is to all others.

I'm shocked by racism agasint Asians.

But you’re just fine with racism against other groups. We see how you think.

This exactly.

Keep the Black people out of elite colleges and the boardroom at any costs. But they can keep fighting the wars for the USA.

Are you saying that black people aren't smart enough for elite colleges or qualified enough for boardrooms?
Now, that is a racist mindset.

[Anonymous]

It is my understanding that GPA and test scores TOGETHER are both equally indicative of student performance. In other words, students with excellent grades can often have good SAT scores.

However, the reverse is not true. Students with lowGPAs can achieve excellent SAT scores through tutoring. This second scenario is not indicative of a good student. Just a good test taker who may have the money to “buy” their score.

In the end, GPA and rigor are king and this is why we are moving test optional… to level the playing field

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I guess URM are going to have to actually start working now, no more free handouts

You don’t think we do? We bust our rears just to make sure people don’t assume we are not worthy. We have to jumo through many other hurdles just to even out the playing field. College admissions is just one factor in “making it” in the US.

If this is actually true then that makes the SAT gap even harder to explain.

Yes, if the black SAT scores truly reflect "busting our rears" then something is very, very wrong.

SAT scores don’t tell the whole story.

They tell a huge piece of the story, though. Anyone with a rudimentary education should be able to find the angles of a parallelogram.

Is the SAT a fair measure of aptitude if only a select group of people are able to prep, pay thousands of $$$ for prep courses that ensure a high SAT score? And still then take the SAT as many times as legally possible until they achieve the highest score. Then others, poorer kids, are unable to afford any prep, maybe a How To book or something but that’s it. They take it once, get an average score and call it a day.

However you like essays you can't even tell who actually wrote it. Rich people can hire professional writers with $$$
Oxymorons LMFAO

I’m not rich so I don’t know. I couldn’t afford a prep course or a hired writer. I know it’s hard for you to fathom. I took the SAT twice, received average scores, I’m worth more than a standardized test score, and wrote my own essay.

You can go to a good state school

If we’d stop the years of expensive prep courses, you’d be average at best.

People who care more and invset more time, money, efforts deserves more

Well, here it is. This explains a lot.

In fact, I like it very much if you are proponent of natural intelligence.
Maybe use IQ test or something.

Asians would like that very much.
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

However, still I think hard work and effort should be valued little more.

Aaand, this poster doubles down. When someone tells you who they are…

you just want it to be pure random right?

I think it is very difficult for you to understand that tests don’t measure merit.

The best University in the World, MIT, disagrees with you.

I think MIT admissions could tease out who belongs and who doesn’t by looking at HS courses and GPA alone.

They could not tease it out which is why they went back to standardized testing. You should read the long letter they wrote when they reinstated SATs/ACT. The thing they did not mention is that the kids they let in without standardized tests could not keep up with the academics. I know someone there and some of those kids from the Covid years really struggled.

If SATs hold so much weight, we need schools to prep students similar to the lucrative prepping agencies. We need equal and affordable, or free, prepping. The profitable prepping groups need to go.

Khan Academy is free and some use it with success. For others, it isn't enough. There is no such thing as equal prep.

Therefore, Khan doesn’t work for most. The test prep is a lucrative joke. It’s a game. You’ve succeeded at the game, slow clap… The entire college admissions process, from ALDCs to the so called ‘geniuses’ is corrupt as far as I’m concerned. I am too stubborn to play this game. A tutor is totally unnecessary for a kid without any learning disabilities etc. i just cannot wrap my head around it. Can’t the students just figure it out on their own?

Yes, remove GPA.
people' hire tutors to increase GPA and take higer math

Why don’t you stop micromanaging your children and let them figure it out? If they aren’t learning disabled they should be able to do it. It’s like those people taking Ozempic who aren’t diabetic. Leave the tutors for the kids who actually need them and let the professionals determine if your kid needs special help.

Yes remove SAT, GPA, and essays.
People also hire consultants for essays.
We should go with lottery.

No, just allow the student to figure out how to succeed on their own. No need for extra help unless the child is learning disabled.

Why are you obsessed with other people?
You do what's best for your kids and what makes sense for your family

Because it’s a completely unfamiliar mindset. I didn’t grow up this way. My parents didn’t even know my SAT scores or GPA. It’s just eye opening to see how so engrossed some parents are. It’s an obsession.

We have all kinds of different people in this country. Some people can pay 20mil 30mil and get in.

Again, you do what's best for your kids and what makes sense for your family

So, for you, it’s not about “fairness” at all.

The world will never be pectly fair. That's why we have objective tests. Everyone takes the same exam for a same given amount of time with their own brain.

How about ADLCs? They make up a significant portion of admissions. More so than URMs at many schools.

Of course I absolutely hate ALDC.
Blacks, Aisans, non-ALDC Whites tax payers should be united against ALDC.

That’s laughable.

The only reason SCOTUS killed AA was to hold onto white power. And guess what, they won’t get rid of ADLC. Pawns.

You have a loser mindset.
We don't need SCOTUS for that.
Colleges get ton of aid/support from local and federal governemtns ran by our tax.
Tax payers and voters have the power.

I have a dream that one day people live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin or the staus of their ALDC but by the content of their character.

And I have a dream that women have bodily autonomy.

Taxpayers and voters don’t have the power. It’s been stolen by corrupt, determined people.

They absolutely have the power. The laws surrounding abortion was returned to the states, which means ELECTED officials, voted on by citizens, determine what the laws are for a state.
But you knew this.

This is exactly my understanding.
So I have been confussed what peope were complaning about.
Personally, I'm not going to vote for anyone who is pro-violation of women's right as I have threee daughters.

[Anonymous]

(OP here)

Personally, I value diversity over a pure meritocracy. More enriching educational experience for all.

Shouldn't some deference be given to Harvard University/Harvard College regarding building an entering class to create the most enriching educational experience ? After all, the school does have a great deal of experience in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

You should study and prepare for those major tests like that.
If you are careless and don't do that, you don't belong in the elite schools.
What is matter with these people??

These tests weren’t originally meant to be taken after the extreme amounts of “prep” that sometimes occurs now. The scores are no longer useful in giving insight into a student’s potential, so colleges are moving away from using them. Scores acquired by extreme prepping practices simply are not that useful in distinguishing one student’s abilities forum another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

They recently spent 500 million dollars on the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) study, which tested over 10,000 American ten-year-olds into adulthood: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0736-6

The average IQ of Asians in the study was 108, Whites 100 and Blacks 83. Immigrant blacks averaged 91.

I’m sure some of the gap is due to a culture that emphasizes academics, but there’s an almost 2 standard deviation gap between Asians and Blacks. Given these IQ scores, the test score gaps we see make perfect sense. This also helps explain why a large fraction of Blacks in top schools are the children of immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is quite eye-opening to read some of these posts- so many people showing how racist they are, even while they claim that they are not. Their convoluted way of thinking seems so normal to them, that they truly have no idea how easily everyone else can see how superior they feel their own race is to all others.

I'm shocked by racism agasint Asians.

But you’re just fine with racism against other groups. We see how you think.

This exactly.

Keep the Black people out of elite colleges and the boardroom at any costs. But they can keep fighting the wars for the USA.

Are you saying that black people aren't smart enough for elite colleges or qualified enough for boardrooms?
Now, that is a racist mindset.

Whoosh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is quite eye-opening to read some of these posts- so many people showing how racist they are, even while they claim that they are not. Their convoluted way of thinking seems so normal to them, that they truly have no idea how easily everyone else can see how superior they feel their own race is to all others.

I'm shocked by racism agasint Asians.

But you’re just fine with racism against other groups. We see how you think.

This exactly.

Keep the Black people out of elite colleges and the boardroom at any costs. But they can keep fighting the wars for the USA.

Are you saying that black people aren't smart enough for elite colleges or qualified enough for boardrooms?
Now, that is a racist mindset.

DP

This gets back to the issues of the fairness and worthiness of standardized tests and socio-economic advantages and disadvantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

You should study and prepare for those major tests like that.
If you are careless and don't do that, you don't belong in the elite schools.
What is matter with these people??

These tests weren’t originally meant to be taken after the extreme amounts of “prep” that sometimes occurs now. The scores are no longer useful in giving insight into a student’s potential, so colleges are moving away from using them. Scores acquired by extreme prepping practices simply are not that useful in distinguishing one student’s abilities forum another.

The best university in the world MIT disagrees with you after years of research.
Colleges are not moving away. I want to keep it in the name of test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

They recently spent 500 million dollars on the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) study, which tested over 10,000 American ten-year-olds into adulthood: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0736-6

The average IQ of Asians in the study was 108, Whites 100 and Blacks 83. Immigrant blacks averaged 91.

I’m sure some of the gap is due to a culture that emphasizes academics, but there’s an almost 2 standard deviation gap between Asians and Blacks. Given these IQ scores, the test score gaps we see make perfect sense. This also helps explain why a large fraction of Blacks in top schools are the children of immigrants.

Are Asian students okay with attending an school with an all-Asian student body in a very diverse country ?

I understand that the response is likely to be that one wants to attend university with the best qualified students regardless of race/ethnicity so that if the best qualified are all Asian students, then so be it. But, this raises the issue of what constitutes the "best qualified" ? Is the American educational experience just about book learning and tests ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is my understanding that GPA and test scores TOGETHER are both equally indicative of student performance. In other words, students with excellent grades can often have good SAT scores.

However, the reverse is not true. Students with lowGPAs can achieve excellent SAT scores through tutoring. This second scenario is not indicative of a good student. Just a good test taker who may have the money to “buy” their score.

In the end, GPA and rigor are king and this is why we are moving test optional… to level the playing field

You don't understand.
Rich people can hire tutors and afford to take shit ton of APs and college level math such as multi-variable calculus, differntial equations advance statistics, etc.
This boost their rigor points and weight GPA.

SAT is at least cover just the fundamental level that low income smart kids can compete.
There are really good free resources if you have smart and will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

They recently spent 500 million dollars on the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) study, which tested over 10,000 American ten-year-olds into adulthood: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0736-6

The average IQ of Asians in the study was 108, Whites 100 and Blacks 83. Immigrant blacks averaged 91.

I’m sure some of the gap is due to a culture that emphasizes academics, but there’s an almost 2 standard deviation gap between Asians and Blacks. Given these IQ scores, the test score gaps we see make perfect sense. This also helps explain why a large fraction of Blacks in top schools are the children of immigrants.

Are Asian students okay with attending an school with an all-Asian student body in a very diverse country ?

I understand that the response is likely to be that one wants to attend university with the best qualified students regardless of race/ethnicity so that if the best qualified are all Asian students, then so be it. But, this raises the issue of what constitutes the "best qualified" ? Is the American educational experience just about book learning and tests ?

Also raises the issue of what constitutes the best educational experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

They recently spent 500 million dollars on the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) study, which tested over 10,000 American ten-year-olds into adulthood: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0736-6

The average IQ of Asians in the study was 108, Whites 100 and Blacks 83. Immigrant blacks averaged 91.

I’m sure some of the gap is due to a culture that emphasizes academics, but there’s an almost 2 standard deviation gap between Asians and Blacks. Given these IQ scores, the test score gaps we see make perfect sense. This also helps explain why a large fraction of Blacks in top schools are the children of immigrants.

Are Asian students okay with attending an school with an all-Asian student body in a very diverse country ?

I understand that the response is likely to be that one wants to attend university with the best qualified students regardless of race/ethnicity so that if the best qualified are all Asian students, then so be it. But, this raises the issue of what constitutes the "best qualified" ? Is the American educational experience just about book learning and tests ?

Aren't Blacks okay with attending an school with almost all Blacks today? Also Whites?

You asking this type of question seems racist oriented. Open your mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

You should study and prepare for those major tests like that.
If you are careless and don't do that, you don't belong in the elite schools.
What is matter with these people??

These tests weren’t originally meant to be taken after the extreme amounts of “prep” that sometimes occurs now. The scores are no longer useful in giving insight into a student’s potential, so colleges are moving away from using them. Scores acquired by extreme prepping practices simply are not that useful in distinguishing one student’s abilities forum another.

The best university in the world MIT disagrees with you after years of research.
Colleges are not moving away. I want to keep it in the name of test optional.

So, MIT has published a study comparing outcomes between students who engaged in extreme prepping practices for the SAT and ACT and those who did not? Do you have a link to that exact study?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the Harvard stats. 150 points lower on the SAT. Party of over. Time for merit.

Cheapened the degree.

It’s entirely possible that those 150 points are only due to prepping and that the non-prepped score is actually an equivalent. In other words, when you add in the advantage of prepping, the scores are pointing to the same amount of merit.

They recently spent 500 million dollars on the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development (ABCD) study, which tested over 10,000 American ten-year-olds into adulthood: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0736-6

The average IQ of Asians in the study was 108, Whites 100 and Blacks 83. Immigrant blacks averaged 91.

I’m sure some of the gap is due to a culture that emphasizes academics, but there’s an almost 2 standard deviation gap between Asians and Blacks. Given these IQ scores, the test score gaps we see make perfect sense. This also helps explain why a large fraction of Blacks in top schools are the children of immigrants.

I don’t think you understand what the term “cultural bias” means.